RE: Hatred

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RE: Hatred - 10/4/2006 9:43:52 AM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

Hatred is never a good thing. It is destructive. But it is also personal. I may have at times hated someone for a moment, but it never lasts, it is much to hard for me to muster the resolve to continue to hate someone.

I can though recognize what some refer to as "evil" and I have little trouble labeling Societies, Countries or people "evil" if they are such. Doesnt mean I hate them though. Personally I would label Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan ( from at least 1933 to 1945) as Evil Nations. I can understand why the people in those societies did what they did. But that doesnt mean understanding excuses what was basicly evil acts.

Both Japan and Germany are differnt societies now and I doubt either would easily fall back into the actions that occurred in those years before and during WW2. Both do how ever still have elements with in their society that would gladly go back.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 31

RE: Hatred - 10/6/2006 10:13:29 AM

Zardoz

Posts: 80
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Essen (Germany)
Status: offline

it might be possible that my last postings carried a wrong attitude. This is triggered by the fact that I am not a native English speaker. I apologize for this.

What i wanted to describe ist that it is a different whether a nation has to bear a war on its own ground or not. The last war on US ground was the civil war.

If I a remember it correctly the US lost about 400.000 - to 500.000 persons in WW II.

Russia lost 20 million
Germany lost 6 million. Every major city was at least partially destroyed. My home town Wesel holds the record for Central Europe with 98 % destroyed houses. there were still ruins when I was a child in the 60ties.More or less every family lost someone in the war. An uncle of mine, for example, was killed in a concentration camp.

This makes an important difference in the perception of war. And my thesis is....the perception of war in the US and UK would be different if they had suffered also in this way.

And with the thesis that there are still elemnst in the Grman society who want to "go back". There are now right wing polticians in the parliaments of Saxony and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern....the got 5 % of votes. These are states of the former GDR. In the old staes of Western Germany...the NPD has no chance to get any seats.

I think that this percentage is much lower than in other European countries...Blegium and France and even The Netherlands for example. I think Germany had learned its lesson very well and the problem is more pazifism than nazism....

_____________________________

"No other troops in the world but German paratroops could have stood up to such an ordeal and then gone on fighting with such ferocity" � Field Marshal Alexander.

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 32

RE: Hatred - 10/12/2006 1:47:29 PM

Dohar

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/12/2006
Status: offline

Hi all,

first post for me, but as a long time reader I have no fear...

In my personal view dehumanising the enemy is a kind of regularity wich exists in every armed conflict all around the world in the past, in the present, and I guess in the future.

It makes things easier to do.

The leaders wants the enemy to be dehumanised and inspire their soldiers with hatred for motivating them. And if you got a common and hatred enemy it's easier to share the people behind you.

The soldiers dehumanising their enemy to make it easier for them to do the kill, wich I hope is not easy for everyone. Even not for a soldier, but I think they get used to it. This also helps in boosting the fighting spirit of the units. It's the "we are better than them"-principle, wich always works well.

But not always, this won't work for everyone. As an example my parents were/are of the war generation, my father even fights '44 in the Ardennes(actually he didn't get an oppertunity to shoot a single round: he marched, cleared a minefield, marched again, build a bridge, followed the offensive, retreated to the Siegfried Line and was taken prisoner by the americans -> yes, he was a pioneer and damn lucky about his POW status

).

I've spoken a lot with them about this topic, but they never feel hatred for the allied forces. I was puzzled because at least my mother was bombed out in Kassel and later strafed by fighter bombers in a train. But she always said: It was war, all this has to be expected.

Of course the propaganda spoke in a different way, once the allied pilots were american terror bombers, once the american soldiers were only questionable and dubious guys from different races. The result was, that in some occasions bailed out pilots were killed by germans and allied prisoners of war were gunned down. Because sometime this mechanics work all to well......

Back to initial question about the japanese and the americans in the pacific. First the japanese attack at pearl harbour made it easy for Roosevelt to share the americans behind his back and it made it easy to hate them because of this way to start a war. Second the japanese culture of honoring death over life and continue fighting in hopeless situations and therefore costing lives of their enemies without a cause (in the american eyes) made it also very easy to hate them.

As a long time wargamer maybe I'm past these thoughts. Hatred and revenge (as KG Erwin stated the "Pearl Harbour"-Mentality) are bad advisors in a campaign and in a battle. But this only counts for wargaming, in a real conflict I doubt that I'm able to suppress this feelings and be such a clean strategist and commander.....damn I even loosing my nerves if the third tank in a row is destroyed by a nasty but heavily suppressed ATG....

Wow....long post, let's see what happens next.

< Message edited by Dohar -- 10/12/2006 2:11:29 PM >

_____________________________

"It is much more secure to be feared than to be loved."

Niccol� Machiavelli (1469-1527)

(in reply to Zardoz)

Post #: 33

RE: Hatred - 10/13/2006 7:27:50 AM

Korpraali V

Posts: 659
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dohar

Second the japanese culture of honoring death over life and continue fighting in hopeless situations and therefore costing lives of their enemies without a cause (in the american eyes) made it also very easy to hate them.

I'd say not to honour death, but because of the honour itself.