General Pope - A Rating Analysis

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> Generals' Ratings >> General Pope - A Rating Analysis

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General Pope - A Rating Analysis - 10/6/2006 10:42:08 AM

lvaces

Posts: 35
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline

Taking on the implicit challange in Gil R.'s statement of surprise that no one is creating threads to discuss the generals' ratings going on, here is my analysis of Gen Pope's proper ratings.

Initiative - Pope is strong here. Both at Island No. 10 and later at 2nd Bull Run, Pope was quick to move. He certainly chased after Jackson at 2nd Bull Run with much enthusiasm and moved to the attack quickly once he caught him. He clearly deserves at least a 5 rating based on 2nd Bull Run alone, and if you throw in his victorious Island No. 10 attacks, a good case can be made for a 6 rating. Those of you who have voted him a 3 or less for initiative, defend yourselves if you can! ;)

Tactics - Nothing special here either way. He was beaten at 2nd Bull Run, but if Longstreet had not been there to rescue Jackson, Pope probably would have carried the field and won the day. An average rating of 3 seems in order, tho I would not argue with someone wanting to vote a 4.

Command - Here is where the problems start. His enthusiasm at 2nd Bull Run may show initiative, but it was handled in a way that caused much confusion. He could not keep track of Lee's army or keep a proper handle on his own, leading to much marching and counter-marching going on with its attendant disorder. Further, Pope's inability to understand the true nature of Lee's campaign against him resulted in his units being misplaced on the battlefield and a lost battle. His command ability is at best a 2. I see some people voting him 4's, 5's, and 6's. Are we talking about the same John Pope?

Leadership - Nothing in Pope's leadership style seems out of the ordinary good, and the bad has already been taken care of in command above, so a 3 for average here.

One general down ... 999 generals to go.

< Message edited by lvaces -- 10/6/2006 11:29:06 AM >

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RE: General Pope - A Rating Analysis - 10/6/2006 8:26:30 PM

andysomers

Posts: 157
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

lvaces - excellent review. I certainly agree on all counts. Pope was eager and able to move men, I agree. Jackson dumfounded him a couple times, and I think that his ego greatly interfered with his objectivity. I have very little to add to what I regard as an otherwise realistic assessment.

(in reply to lvaces)

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RE: General Pope - A Rating Analysis - 10/6/2006 11:11:09 PM

Williamb

Posts: 594
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Dayton Ohio
Status: offline

Actually I disagree.

At least with Bull run.

Pope was disliked by the troops because he would deride them over not being as "good' as the troops out west. He said to them "only fear lingers in the rear" To which some said whe Stonewall flanked him "Yeah fear is lingering in the rear and stonewall is there also"

Then Stonewall managed to pull a flanking manuever on him with an entire army corps. Yeah Pope was dribble troops returning from the Pennensula but clearly Stonewall stole a march on him.

Then Lincoln urged Pope to trap Jackson arging this was a great chance to defeat an enemy army split in two. Pope said "I have Jackson in the bag'. But it took him I believe two days to locate Jackson who he had assumed was retreating back to Virginia but instead had entrenched waiting for the rest of Lee's army to arrive.

Jackson played the part perfectly. He lured Pope into attacks on his entrenched positions while knowing that Longstreet and the rest of the army were coming up to his aid.

In every sense of the word Pope had been outmanuevered by a smaller force and then while he aggressively attacked them he failed to account for the rest of the army that led to a bad defeat and inspired Lee to do his first invasion of the North.

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(in reply to andysomers)

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