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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> We can talk a little

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We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 2:33:16 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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Hi Guys
we been asking if the Gag order could be slacken some, so some of the testers could talk, instead of Gil haveing to do all the work

which, they have agreed to let some of do some talking, so, if you have some questions, ask away

JC is more with the Ecc and settings (and the other boreing stuff) and I am more into the Combat system (the good stuff)

so......

ask away and we will try and answer your questions as we have seen them in the game

(with in reason)

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 2:48:22 PM

marecone

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Wow. Ok. Is battle graphics done? How do units look? Do they have flags over them? Rebel and union or do we have some unit flags?
What about the sound? Few or many?
More to come

because you asked for it

< Message edited by marecone -- 10/18/2006 2:51:02 PM >

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"I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue."

Nathan Bedford Forrest

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 3:10:36 PM

Andy Mac

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What is the smallest unit is it like COG at Divional scale or is it Bde or even regt scale ?

Are their morale restrictions if you reinforce a Georgia regt from a Virginia regt ?

Can you rename all units and is the field big enough ?

If Britain enters the war the enter from Canada - where do the french come in if they are activated ?

Thanks HS.

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 3:27:02 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marecone

Wow. Ok. Is battle graphics done? How do units look? Do they have flags over them? Rebel and union or do we have some unit flags?
What about the sound? Few or many?
More to come because you asked for it

okay first off, remember, I got to try and be sure of what I am saying as some of it is still in the touchy area, but over all

we are close, still some touch up and goodies being added, the Guy doing the art is a Master

units have changed and changed, but they look great, and the final model should look even better then what I have to suffer though (did I say that, oops)

Flags, we got flags, they got flags, there are flags all over the place :), but what I have seen may not be what you will see, it is still changing, but it is very good and I like it :)

sounds ? sure we got sounds, we got combat and command, and music, you can get a good feel for the battle while it is going on, touchy on few or many, think that may depend on the player

ask away, I will try and answer any question, with in reason of what I can say, and when I can get to it :)

< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 10/18/2006 3:29:59 PM >

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 3:32:43 PM

marecone

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Thanks Hard Sarge. That was quick

When you are organizeing your forces do you have some screen that helps you or you do it manually? Is it drag and drop thing or something else?

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"I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue."

Nathan Bedford Forrest

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 3:45:29 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

What is the smallest unit is it like COG at Divional scale or is it Bde or even regt scale ?

Are their morale restrictions if you reinforce a Georgia regt from a Virginia regt ?

Can you rename all units and is the field big enough ?

If Britain enters the war the enter from Canada - where do the french come in if they are activated ?

Thanks HS.

game is Bde level, during combat, if the Bde is large enough, it can be split, the Bdes are grouped in Div size Containers, and the Divs can be placed in Corps or Armies (of course, Bdes can join a larger container also, so you could have a Div with it's own troops and then troops that belong to the Corps that controls the Div)

Reinforcements, come from a standard pool, so you will not really be joining troops from different states into Bdes, they will have there own, Exp and Morale level, which can effect the levels of the unit they join

you can pretty much rename anything in the game (troop wize) you will still have a set number of letters you can use, but I have been able to get what I want in there

I have run around and named my Corps based on who the Commander of the Corps was, and then the Divs based on who was commanding them, and of course, I got to have my 1st Vir Cav Div

(of course, I also had my Slaughters Slashers, except, Slaughter couldn't ride a horse too well)

Where do the French come from ? hehe, be nice

during that time, the French were down south a little bit from the US, so I would think they would come in from the Tex border, but to be honest, I have never seen them in a game I have played/tested, so do not know for sure if they come from on the map or show up in one of the ports ?

remember, it is not a sure deal that you can pull either into the war on your side, it can happen, there is a chance it could happen, but the AI or the Union is also working to keep them from joining you (or if a PBEM game, they should be)

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 3:53:10 PM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marecone

Thanks Hard Sarge. That was quick
When you are organizeing your forces do you have some screen that helps you or you do it manually? Is it drag and drop thing or something else?

Well, I work nights, so am home from work now :)

there is a screen that shows all your troops and how they are set up and you can do things to them from this screen (change weapons, change flags, change name, add sub troops (I call it skills, think they call it something else) don't believe you can move units around from here though, but you can go to the unit in question)

over all, the rest of it is done with in the state area, and is click and click (click on the 1st Bde, then click on the 1st Div and the 1st Bde goes into the 1st Div, and in this area, you can also pretty much do any of the things you could do in the unit screen)

really, once you have done it a few times, you do not even think about what you are doing, you just do what you want, very simple

you want the 1st Div to move to a new area, click on the 1st Div and a Arrow will show up as you move from area to area, click on where you want it to go and it "should" go there

(winter and weather can effect this and this can also be something that is decided in the settings)

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 5:33:13 PM

kmb

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Do I smell a little aar?

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 5:39:48 PM

Hard Sarge

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That will have to wait I think, they giveing us a chance to try and tell what we know with out telling too much of what we know yet

plus my AARs tend to get the details lost in the story :)

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 7:02:25 PM

Oldguard

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Hard Sarge, I sympathize with you for having volunteered like this. But since you did :)

My question concerns the AI. In many ACW battles, the opponent's mistakes were capitalized upon to change the outcome. In a PBM game you can get much the same flavor with sufficient fog of war. However, my concern is playing against the AI. I want to at least have the opportunity to surmise the character of the opposing commander - if he's a McClellan, I would expect him not to be real aggressive. If he's a Grant, I would expect the opposite. If he's a Pope I would expect to be able to send Jackson around Cedar Mountain and hit his supply base before he was aware. (And if I'm Pope, I would want to deploy my cavalry in such a way as to discover those maneuvers before they were a threat).

So does the AI cheat? Is it possible to trick it into the sort of realistic blunders that actual commanders commited during the war? Or if I have half as many men in my AoNV am I necessarily doomed to the defensive?

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 11:39:57 PM

spruce

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hello, I have a question.

Can you decide on intensity of the battle ? Like second Manassas, Jackson had orders to defend and avoid a major engagement as long as possible until Longstreets corps had appeared on the battlefield.

question = can you delay the advancing enemy so it would allow you to�converge your�divisions and corps until you have a strong fist to punch the enemy ?

< Message edited by spruce -- 10/18/2006 11:41:45 PM >

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/18/2006 11:43:07 PM

Terminus

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Calling for reinforcements whilst in battle is definitely possible. Of course, while you wait for them it's always possible for the other side to beat you up and off the field.

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 1:38:23 AM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oldguard

Hard Sarge, I sympathize with you for having volunteered like this. But since you did :)

My question concerns the AI. In many ACW battles, the opponent's mistakes were capitalized upon to change the outcome. In a PBM game you can get much the same flavor with sufficient fog of war. However, my concern is playing against the AI. I want to at least have the opportunity to surmise the character of the opposing commander - if he's a McClellan, I would expect him not to be real aggressive. If he's a Grant, I would expect the opposite. If he's a Pope I would expect to be able to send Jackson around Cedar Mountain and hit his supply base before he was aware. (And if I'm Pope, I would want to deploy my cavalry in such a way as to discover those maneuvers before they were a threat).

So does the AI cheat? Is it possible to trick it into the sort of realistic blunders that actual commanders commited during the war? Or if I have half as many men in my AoNV am I necessarily doomed to the defensive?

hmmmm, this one is kind of tricky, parts of what you would see on this would be when a battle begins (or gets a chance to begin, as the General in charge would be part of the mix, did him move first, did he wait, did he follow his orders to the letter)

and at the start of the battle, depending on the force type, you get a screening roll, where you have options as to what to do, sneak attack, raid supplies are some of them, and also the General can let you pick the type and terrain of the battle field (you may gets forts, or you may get open and lots of roads, or swamps and woods, or other combos inbetween, based on where the battle is fought)

a smaller, but better trained unit (Div,Corps) can indeed win vs numbers, but Defending is Strong, and Attacking is HARD

so it is HARD to run wild in the game

the West is the battle of movement, in the East, it is kind of stagenent (at least for me, I don't like losses, so I stand my ground while the Union Stands his and we watch each other)

does the AI cheat ?, overall, I do not really think so, some things may happen, where it looks like it may, during tactical Combat, but there are so many "skill" combos that can effect what a unit can do (sometimes, the AI seems to be able to move a unit pretty far, but I also have units that March pretty good (not counting if it is using forcemarch or not) I got units that shoot good, and so does the AI (hate when I run into them)

does it know where your at, or where your weak ? No I think not, I have seen it try to outflank me and I have had it walk right into the middle of my line

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 1:44:50 AM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spruce

hello, I have a question.

Can you decide on intensity of the battle ? Like second Manassas, Jackson had orders to defend and avoid a major engagement as long as possible until Longstreets corps had appeared on the battlefield.

question = can you delay the advancing enemy so it would allow you to converge your divisions and corps until you have a strong fist to punch the enemy ?

the thing here is Morale, if your morale holds, you can do wonders

over all, you have 3 days to fight a battle, and depending on how the battle starts, it may be early morning or late afternoon when the first day begins

which morale begins to fall as the battle gets longer

we also have something called will, or will to fight, based on morale, troop exp, General in charge, as you take losses and things happen, this will start to fall, you break the enemies will to fight and the battle is over, or you can break his morale, while his will is still up (but overall, they work hand in hand, if your breaking his morale, his will is also falling)

you get a Corps that has had a few losses in a row, it will be HARD to get them to stand and fight a toe to toe battle, as there morale is pretty shot to begin with

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 1:57:07 AM

spruce

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Hard Sarge,

thank you for the feedback. To link a question to your last sentence ... and let's take Second Manassas here as an example.

If Jacksons corps is giving the Union army commander a hard time - and as such Union corps morale and will will crumble ... but other Union corps are on the way to prolongue the attack on Jackson

but also Longstreets corps is moving in for assistance of Jackson - so confederate army general Lee might also want to prolongue the battle - perhaps Jacksons corps has lost some morale - but not his will to fight.

- that' still possible for the Union army general to continue the battle. IIRC Pope (commanding Union general) had many corps at second Manassas - suppose he has 3 corps in shambles, he can still stretch the battle and let his remaing corps (moving in) going in for a fight on the 2'nd or 3'rd day?

< Message edited by spruce -- 10/19/2006 2:00:56 AM >

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 2:06:21 AM

Terminus

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If Will to Fight goes to hell, then everybody runs. Routing tends to create an avalanche effect (no surprise there).

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 2:12:58 AM

Terminus

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So the point is, you must have fielded forces to receive reinforcements. If all your troops have routed off the map, then there's no action to reinforce.

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 3:00:27 AM

Terminus

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Like Hard Sarge said, attacking can be a stone-cold b*tch, costing piles of casualties. I can count the number of times I've won as the attacker on one hand (though thay may have something to do with my skill!)

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 4:32:48 AM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spruce

Hard Sarge,

thank you for the feedback. To link a question to your last sentence ... and let's take Second Manassas here as an example.

If Jacksons corps is giving the Union army commander a hard time - and as such Union corps morale and will will crumble ... but other Union corps are on the way to prolongue the attack on Jackson

but also Longstreets corps is moving in for assistance of Jackson - so confederate army general Lee might also want to prolongue the battle - perhaps Jacksons corps has lost some morale - but not his will to fight.

- that' still possible for the Union army general to continue the battle. IIRC Pope (commanding Union general) had many corps at second Manassas - suppose he has 3 corps in shambles, he can still stretch the battle and let his remaing corps (moving in) going in for a fight on the 2'nd or 3'rd day?

Term is being blunt, but

as far as how you are saying the battle is going and what not, you could pull the weakened Corps (would be a big battle) back and out of the fight and then let the others stick it out

or either side can, if there are units in range call for reinforcements, limited to one call per day
(reinforcements seem to help with the morale side but the Will stays the same as it was at the start)

if I follow your question, the way I think, Yes, you can have long battles, you can call for help, you can pull troops back out of the line

I have had a few 3 day battles, some I won and some I lost, had one that went almost all the way to the wire, Dusk was just starting to fall, when the Enemy finally broke

and it was truely one of the cases where when one of the Lts rode up to the tell the Commanding General that the enemy was running away, if we move fast, we can catch them, and the General just shakes his head and says, let them go, let them run

battles can be nail biters

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 1:13:31 PM

marecone

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Ok. New one.
What about artillery? Types? What about canister shots? Is artillery imortant in the game or so so? Let say in Frank Hunter's excellent game that was one of the errors. Artillery didn't mean s*hit

Thanks

P.S. Artillery commanders? Is artillery part of the brigade or do you have batteries like independant forces?

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"I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue."

Nathan Bedford Forrest

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 2:54:01 PM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marecone

Ok. New one.
What about artillery? Types? What about canister shots? Is artillery imortant in the game or so so? Let say in Frank Hunter's excellent game that was one of the errors. Artillery didn't mean s*hit
Thanks

P.S. Artillery commanders? Is artillery part of the brigade or do you have batteries like independant forces?

Yes and No :)

the closer you are to the target the more damage you got a chance to do, one hex range is MURDER

but, the closer you are, the better chance you have of takeing return fire, and nothing worse then finally getting your Arty to bear then to see if drop it's tail between it's legs and run away (if it can)

you can build a Arty Bde, you can also have Arty Attached to a Bde, there is also Horse Arty for Cav units

you can also, force feed a Inf Bde into becomeing a Arty Bde by placeing two Arty attachments to it, but to takes a very nasty hit to morale and skill (that one is a catch 22 deal, if you need it and got the resources, you can have Arty, but if anyone shoots at them, they running away)

not really sure if we would call them Arty Commanders, but a General with a Arty unit, or Inf with arty attached, will give a combat bonus (if the General has a bonus to give)

but over all, I would say, to make sure your arty has a leader, it helps it move and it helps it fire and it helps it to stand in place

it is nasty, but it is tricky too, and it can be HARD to bring into action

there are counters to Arty also, there are troops who have a Blasted skill, meaning they get a bonus when they charge Arty (that one scares me just thinking about it)

also Sharpshooters get a bonus when firing at Arty

best part is Arty can be captured and become yours !!!
Cav you just get the Horses, Inf, the enemy loses the troops

Gun models, lots and different, if I got everything I can get, I like Withworths, but have been known to run around with a few 24 pound Hows(deadly at close range) the 6 pound gun is the deflaut
the 12 pound gun and 12 pound How are decent run of the mill types if low on resources

there are good long range guns, and good close range ones, depends on your style or what you can afford at the time

there is also Arty for Forts you can buy (siege combat, not detailed)

also Forts have some upgrades you can buy for them just like the combat units

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 2:57:28 PM

Hard Sarge

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there are also different upgrades that can be reseached, that effect Arty, either cost and build time or damage done

Arty is Importent, but you can win battles with out it and you can lose battles with it

so it is still up to the commander

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 3:07:35 PM

marecone

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Very informative Hard Sarge

Thank you

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Nathan Bedford Forrest

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 3:09:27 PM

marecone

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One question about my favorites. Cavalry. Can cavalry forces fight dismounted? If they charge infantry I presume they take heavy losses. Correct?
And what special commanding ability does Forrest have?
Thanks in advance.

< Message edited by marecone -- 10/19/2006 3:11:52 PM >

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"I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue."

Nathan Bedford Forrest

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/19/2006 4:18:19 PM

Hard Sarge

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Cav

yes, the idea is they ride towards battle and then dismount and fire, which basicly in the game works out you ride in column to where you want to go, and then form a line and then fire, of course, since they are Cav they normally can move more then Inf can (give them Good Horses and they can move more, but good Horses cost Horses)

one reseach you can gain is Dragoon Tactics, which allow you to still have part of your turn left after you fire, so a Cav could move a few hexes, form a line, fire, form a column and then move away

one thing nice is they can move to the flanks or rear and then get a "good" shot in, but you can not move next to a unit and form a line (well, you can, but the odds go way down on doing so) so that cuts down on how much you can move around

Cav with Dragoon Tactics can also do a another round of fire combat, which if armed with Spencers or Sharps can be very nasty, but also can make you run out of Ammo in a hurry

most Cav weapons, while they can fire from 2 hexes away, are not too swift, most are better in close

chargeing is very dangerous, it can really hurt the bad guys, but it also has a chance to really hurt you also, Inf and Cav can both charge

for me, I try to stay away from it as much as I can, I believe in the magic of fire power

but, if done with care and timing, a good charge can really change a battle around (which of course, a bad charge can really ruin you day)

Forrest ?
to be honest, I think I would have to say, I have either never seen him, or when I did get him, I didn't get a chance to use him

(remember as a tester, I run my turns and my battles, report what I see, and pretty soon there is a new and improved model sitting there, and so, a new game starts, I have only had the time to win one game so far (LOL, should I show my Victory Screen ?) I had one weekend, where I played all (err tested) day and when I was totally crossed eye and ready for bed, went to post my remarks and then seen that a new verison was ready, downloaded and then began again)

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/21/2006 4:59:57 PM

Hard Sarge

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Spruce

you can set up a line, but you can not double stack units

what is a little different in this game then most others is the front hex is the front (facing hex) the two hexes to the side also face front but count as a simi flank, then the next two are simi rear flank, with the last hex being Rear

so you can not really set up a all forward faceing line, any unit can still get a simi flanked attack made vs it

now for what you were asking, you can get a long range rifle unit and place it behind the arty, which can fire though the arty unit to anything coming close to it

or when you get the inderict fire reseached, you can then place the arty behind a unit in front of it (I think Hows have this to start with)

(get a troop, armed with Spencers and attached Gatlings guns, with a decent Arty sitting behind it, and it is a bear to knock out)

unless the line is really dug in good, it is easy to break up a line

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/23/2006 5:43:36 PM

Oldguard

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

but, if done with care and timing, a good charge can really change a battle around (which of course, a bad charge can really ruin you day)

Any cavalry commander in history would agree with you -- the success of a charge is always going to depend on one thing: timing. When the enemy's will to fight is hovering in the balance, cavalry is the breeze that blows it over.

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/23/2006 6:26:29 PM

*Lava*

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oldguard

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

but, if done with care and timing, a good charge can really change a battle around (which of course, a bad charge can really ruin you day)

Any cavalry commander in history would agree with you -- the success of a charge is always going to depend on one thing: timing. When the enemy's will to fight is hovering in the balance, cavalry is the breeze that blows it over.

Cavalry played a critical role in the ACW, but it wasn't by charging in battles.

The confederate cavalry ruled the battlefield for the first two years and were thus able to give Lee a significant advantage over his federal adversaries because of their ability to scout and screen. Thereafter, as the Union cavalry grew in both strenght and proficiency, the tide began to turn in the east.

I hope this is somehow a part of the game.

Ray (alias Lava)

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RE: We can talk a little - 10/23/2006 6:43:58 PM

Oldguard

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

quote:

Cavalry played a critical role in the ACW, but it wasn't by charging in battles.

I hope I didn't give the impression that it was. The fact is that the ACW was dominated by the defense and the defensive position. The difference between the Napoleonic wars and the ACW was one thing: the growth of firepower. However, all that is not to say that a unit which has been badly shaken in morale which is caught in flank or rear by a strong cavalry charge could not be routed - in theory it should still be possible.

quote:

The confederate cavalry ruled the battlefield for the first two years and were thus able to give Lee a significant advantage over his federal adversaries because of their ability to scout and screen. Thereafter, as the Union cavalry grew in both strenght and proficiency, the tide began to turn in the east.

I hope this is somehow a part of the game.

I gather that it is. I've been asking about AI functionality with this in mind - if the AI must cope with the fog of war as well as the human player, then as you note the cavalry functions of scouting/screening will play their appropriate part. And the side that doesn't use its cavalary correctly will find itself outflanked and outmaneuvered. Justly so.

(in reply to *Lava*)

Post #: 29

RE: We can talk a little - 10/23/2006 9:16:26 PM

Gil R.

Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

The confederate cavalry ruled the battlefield for the first two years and were thus able to give Lee a significant advantage over his federal adversaries because of their ability to scout and screen. Thereafter, as the Union cavalry grew in both strenght and proficiency, the tide began to turn in the east.

I hope this is somehow a part of the game.

Ray (alias Lava)

Scouting and screening are two of the ways cavalry can be used. The CSA has a cavalry advantage in the game, which means more opportunities to do both, and the superior quality of many CSA cavalry units also gives an advantage.

(in reply to *Lava*)

Post #: 30