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RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/8/2006 3:54:57 PM   
composer99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

My original write up says nothing about strategic bombing or how factories get damaged or destroyed, just that it can happen to them and the icon will look different on the map to reflect their changed state..

So, getting back to your first comment on tutorial #3 page 7, what in particular bothers you about the paragraph on factories?


Specifically the part where "blue factories are never damaged; they are destroyed instead." Given that they are only destroyed when (a) an occupying unit chooses to do so, or (b) a strategic air raid is sufficiently powerful (one or more * show up on the chart), I would think that that statement is inaccurate.

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Post #: 61
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/8/2006 6:53:32 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

My original write up says nothing about strategic bombing or how factories get damaged or destroyed, just that it can happen to them and the icon will look different on the map to reflect their changed state..

So, getting back to your first comment on tutorial #3 page 7, what in particular bothers you about the paragraph on factories?


Specifically the part where "blue factories are never damaged; they are destroyed instead." Given that they are only destroyed when (a) an occupying unit chooses to do so, or (b) a strategic air raid is sufficiently powerful (one or more * show up on the chart), I would think that that statement is inaccurate.

How about:

... blue factories can be destroyed completely, instead of merely damaged.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 62
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/11/2006 3:20:53 AM   
trees

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		Although factory building is a somewhat rare choice in WiF, it is possible (I suspect the most common occurence is for the Free French). Just curious - have you thought about how to graphically indicate a blue factory that has been constructed during the game? On cardboard this is handled with a counter for new factories. The new ones are eliminated permanently by an "*" result during strat bombing, while the 'printed' ones on the map can of course be repaired. Then there is the fun of keeping track of where moved factories are during the turn they are not operational...obviously the computer will be a big help here. (In real life you have to resort to pen and paper).

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 63
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/11/2006 4:07:25 AM   
composer99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
How about:

... blue factories can be destroyed completely, instead of merely damaged.


Perhaps this would work better?

"Red factories can only be temporarily damaged, while blue factories can be destroyed as well as damaged."

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Post #: 64
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/11/2006 5:22:26 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
How about:

... blue factories can be destroyed completely, instead of merely damaged.


Perhaps this would work better?

"Red factories can only be temporarily damaged, while blue factories can be destroyed as well as damaged."

Ah, no.

It leaves open the possibility of expecting the red factories to be repaired automatically. And the "as well as" gives the suggestion that a blue factory might be destroyed or damaged. Actually they are either destroyed or damaged, depending upon when they were built.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 65
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/15/2006 3:31:24 AM   
composer99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Ah, no.

It leaves open the possibility of expecting the red factories to be repaired automatically. And the "as well as" gives the suggestion that a blue factory might be destroyed or damaged. Actually they are either destroyed or damaged, depending upon when they were built.


I stand corrected, at least vis-a-vis red factories' invulnerability. They can also be destroyed by strategic bombing (check the text for 11.7 in the paragraph after Option 30). So in the end in a tutorial on terrain and hex/hexside features I'm not sure I'd want to say anything about the differences between red and blue factories except to suggest that they will be discussed in future tutorials.

It looks like the only difference between red factories and other factories is that red factories cannot be destroyed by occupying enemy units. And the only difference between factories built after the start of a scenario and "printed" factories is that the former can never be rebuilt if they are destroyed.

Maybe we're not on the same terminology wavelength (or maybe we are, I'm starting to get confused).

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Post #: 66
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/15/2006 4:06:17 AM   
Mziln


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From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline 		22.2 Factory destruction & construction (option 30)
 
Destruction
 
Blue and red factories can be destroyed by strategic bombardment (see 11.7). If there is a choice, destroy blue factories first.
 
You may also destroy a blue factory if an enemy land unit occupies a hex in the country. To destroy a blue factory, one of your land units must be in supply in that hex during the victory check step (see 13.8). Each land unit can only destroy 1 factory stack a turn. If the hex has 2 blue factories, you may only destroy both in the same turn if you have 2 land units there.

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Post #: 67
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/15/2006 4:31:03 AM   
trees

 

Posts: 175
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Status: offline 		Since the ADG rules consistently use "Destroyed" & "Repair" perhaps it would be best to stick to the same terminology as used in the rules. Some people might actually read the rules first and the tutorial later

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Post #: 68
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/15/2006 4:56:08 AM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
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From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline 		My post was cut and pasted from the RaW (Rules as Written Final Edition)

< Message edited by Mziln -- 11/15/2006 5:00:11 AM >

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Post #: 69
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/15/2006 5:04:35 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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Status: offline 		This on-going discussion is making me more in favor of using green factories to represent factories newly created. I had that mostly implemented at one point but backed off when I fould that Patton (America?) In Flames has a different definition for green factories.

I much prefer 'damaged' to 'destroyed'. The word 'repair' complements damaged much better. Destroyed sounds more complete and beyond repair.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 70
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/15/2006 9:46:18 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

This on-going discussion is making me more in favor of using green factories to represent factories newly created. I had that mostly implemented at one point but backed off when I fould that Patton (America?) In Flames has a different definition for green factories.

I much prefer 'damaged' to 'destroyed'. The word 'repair' complements damaged much better. Destroyed sounds more complete and beyond repair.

It is America in Flames that has green factories in game. Green factories are extra factories that are like blue factories.
You can make newly built factories of another color, Yellow, Pink, light blue...
Light blue would be the best, as the rule say that built factories are like Blue factories, except that they cannot be repaired when destroyed.

As for the "destroyed" "damaged" word choice, RAW is using "destroyed" so using "damaged" would be confusing. Maybe you can use neither of both, and use a third word, like "out of order" or "unusable", something like that.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 71
RE: Tutorial #3 - 11/15/2006 3:04:43 PM   
trees

 

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Status: offline 		or I suspect no one would really mind if a verb was changed slightly in all of perhaps three instances in the rules as written...it really is a tad confusing.

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Post #: 72
RE: Tutorial #3 - 5/11/2007 11:07:52 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Bump, so it doesn't disappear from the forum.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to trees)
Post #: 73
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