Battle of Samar

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Battle of Samar

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Battle of Samar - 10/25/2006 5:57:40 PM

greg_slith

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As madmickey pointed out the 62nd anniversary of the battle of Samar just occured. To me IMHO, this was the greatest battle of all time for the USN. Sure several ships were lost, but a handful of DD's and DE's turning back the Yamato and her brethren is more impressive to me than Midway. Sure, Kurita's group would have found mostly empty transports if he had the cajones to press the attack but he didn't. In Harm's Way indeed.

It makes me quite angry that so many of the sailors that survived the engagement were left to the sharks and the elements AFTER the battle ended. It seems to me, and I'm no expert, but the USN had alot of trouble with this (see: several battles off of Guadalcanal, the Indy, etc).

Anyway, my deepest respects to the men of Taffy 3

That should be a freakin' movie but I'm scared of what Hollwood would do to it.

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/25/2006 11:23:26 PM

Tiornu

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Taffy 3 did not turn back Kurita. He got tired of wasting his time with Taffy 3 (which he never understood was just an 18-knot force) and decided to go looking elsewhere for a enemy worth fighting.

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/25/2006 11:58:50 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

Taffy 3 did not turn back Kurita. He got tired of wasting his time with Taffy 3 (which he never understood was just an 18-knot force) and decided to go looking elsewhere for a enemy worth fighting.

What I never understood is extremely poor performance of Japanese fleet that day against week and slower opponent... it was the bigest fiasco of Japanese surface ships ever...

Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 12:04:04 AM

Speedysteve

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In many ways yes but from reading the whole report from when they left port....knowing they were very soon being tracked by subs....CA's being torpedoed....spotted by air.....massive attacks on Musashi...constant battle stress for days = not surprising IMO that on the actual day he turned back after seeing such a display of power on the way in against Musashi.

IMO the stress of the previous days had shot their nerves and competence for battle = led to poor performance

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 12:07:54 AM

Nikademus

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Kurita did not conduct an organized, planned enagement. Essentially he just said "charge" and everyone did which was what helped Taffey 3's light escorts get in the licks they did against the medium and heavies. It became a free for all with Japanese warships each conducting their own fight against an opponent which wanted to be anywhere but there. Kurita takes alot of flak and perhaps some is deserved certainly.....but the most scathing analysis of course always beneift from armchair hindsight. The situation wasn't clear to him, he was not well, and had recently undergone over 24 hours of stress and a day's worth of attacks which saw his own flagship shot out from under him as well as losing one of his two most powerful warships. All this and the fact that it's alleged his heart was never into the whole operation to start with.

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 12:13:11 AM

Speedysteve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
The situation wasn't clear to him, he was not well, and had recently undergone over 24 hours of stress and a day's worth of attacks which saw his own flagship shot out from under him as well as losing one of his two most powerful warships.

Didn't I say that dumbass?

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 12:16:23 AM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
The situation wasn't clear to him, he was not well, and had recently undergone over 24 hours of stress and a day's worth of attacks which saw his own flagship shot out from under him as well as losing one of his two most powerful warships.

Didn't I say that dumbass?

badly. yes.

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 12:20:07 AM

Speedysteve

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Dumbass

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 1:14:09 AM

Tiornu

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My understanding is that it's conventional for an ass to lack the capacity for speech. My case, of course, is unconventional.
I wonder if Kurita's General Attack order came as the way to get in the first punch before the American "task force" could form up its heavy units for battle. I think we all know that Taffy 3 was originally mistaken for a more impressive fleet. Kurita never did get a handle on the actual identity of his opponent. Visibility was spotty that day, and according to eyewitnesses on both sides, the American smokescreen was the best smokescreen they'd ever seen. Kurita continued to think he was chasing 30-knot ships.

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 1:19:57 AM

Halsey

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It's also the anniversary of the "Light Brigade" at Balaclava.

You never hear much of the "Heavy Brigade" attack to help them withdraw.
It was by far more impressive than the Lights blunder, err misdirection.

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 1:49:03 AM

MkXIV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

My understanding is that it's conventional for an ass to lack the capacity for speech. My case, of course, is unconventional.
I wonder if Kurita's General Attack order came as the way to get in the first punch before the American "task force" could form up its heavy units for battle. I think we all know that Taffy 3 was originally mistaken for a more impressive fleet. Kurita never did get a handle on the actual identity of his opponent. Visibility was spotty that day, and according to eyewitnesses on both sides, the American smokescreen was the best smokescreen they'd ever seen. Kurita continued to think he was chasing 30-knot ships.

Correct IIRC the IJN reported sinking 2 or more Essex Class Carriers and several Heavy Crusiers.

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 3:01:22 PM

tsimmonds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

It's also the anniversary of the "Light Brigade" at Balaclava.

Tennyson's poem lauding the Light Brigade is also appropriate for Samar:

1.
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
2.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
3.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
4.
Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
5.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
6.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred.

Alfred, Lord Tennyson

I love the fact that the infamous phrase "all the world wondered" came from this poem celebrating an event that also took place on October 25.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 10/26/2006 3:06:14 PM >

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RE: Battle of Samar - 10/26/2006 5:07:50 PM

madmickey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx

As madmickey pointed out the 62nd anniversary of the battle of Samar just occured.

Hate to be picky but brave men died there.
It was the Battle off Samar.
Samar is an Island and Naval Battle would be called Battle off Samar.
Battle off Samar

(in reply to greg_slith)

Post #: 13