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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

 
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/15/2009 12:54:06 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...last ones from me tonight, the sole Mexican naval representative and one of the two Peruvian cruisers.

[4304 Anahuac - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 6,800 hp
.B Top Speed: 14 knots
.B Main armament: 2 x 9-inch (240mm), 4 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 3,162 tons
.B Thickest armour: 14-inch (belt)
.P Strictly speaking this is a World In Flames "What if" counter. The name
ship on this counter was scrapped by the Mexican Navy before the period covered
by World In Flames. The remaining vessels within the Mexican Navy at that time
were insufficient to warrant even a World In Flames flotilla counter.
.P The coastal defence ship Anahuac began life as a Marshal Deodoro-class vessel,
built for the Brazilian Navy by the French in 1898. She was one of two ships of
the class and was sold to Mexico in 1924.
.P Strangely, given her lengthy coastline and central position in the Americas,
Mexico has never had a large navy. The purchase of Marshal Deodoro was part of an
effort to redress this issue, but the exercise amounted to little, and after
fourteen years of being used mainly as a training vessel, the Mexicans scrapped
her.
.P Anahuac was named after the Battle of Anahuac in 1835 in which the Mexicans
defeated a Texan army.
.P ARM Anahuac was scrapped in 1938.


[4305 Almirante Grau - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 14,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 24 knots
.B Main armament: 2 x 6-inch (152mm), 8 x 3-inch (76.2mm) guns
.B Displacement (standard): 3,200 tons
.B Thickest armour: No belt armour
.P The Almirante Grau-class cruisers were built for the Peruvian navy between
1906 and 1907. They were the backbone of their fleet until they were both
scrapped in 1958.
.P They were officially termed as scout cruisers and were designed and built in
the United Kingdom. They were lightly armed and armoured ships.
.P In the mid-twenties they were refitted, during which they were modified from
being coal burning and given an oil burning propulsion system. A further refit
took place in the UK in the mid-thirties, and they were given new machinery and
fitted with replacement 3-inch anti-aircraft guns.
.P Almirante Grau was completed in October 1906. She was named after the famous
Peruvian Admiral, Miguel Grau, who was killed fighting the Chilean Navy at the
Battle of Angamos in October 1879.
.P BAP Almirante Grau was scrapped in 1958.


I hope your going to give credit to Wosung and Froonp for providing the links and information on both these ships.

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1321
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/15/2009 6:37:40 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I'm starting to think I want someone to build me a South America in Flames game to play covering the 19th Century.

Warspite1

Yes, there`s some interesting stuff here - all of which I am only finding out in any detail for the first time. When I get some time I think I`ll try and get some books on the history of South America, the struggle for independence and the wars and disputes that took place afterwards.



_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 1322
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/15/2009 3:56:19 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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...the last of the South Americans - 1 of 2 Brazilian counters.


[4307 Minas Gerais - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 23,500 hp
.B Top Speed: 21 knots
.B Main armament: 12 x 12-inch (305mm), 22 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns
.B Displacement (standard): 21,200 tons
.B Thickest armour: 9-inch (belt)
.P In the early years of the 20th century, the Brazilian Government began a
program to expand and modernise their navy in order to challenge the supremacy of
the Argentine navy and to ensure Brazil had a powerful, modern fleet as befitting
her status as the largest country in South America.
.P There were numerous wars and border disputes between the newly independent
countries of South America in the 19th Century. As ever, a strong military was
needed in order to protect disputed borders; or indeed to back up a claim on
territory being coveted.
.P However, what the Brazilians did in 1907 shocked the naval world. She ordered
the building of two battleships that were at that time, the most powerful ships
in any navy in the world. The Minas Gerais-class battleships, Minas Gerais and
Sao Paulo, were built in the United Kingdom between 1907 and 1910. They were
named after what were then the two most important of the country`s twenty-six
states.
.P These were fast, well armed and well armoured vessels, and they gave Brazil
a dreadnought type battleship before all but the United Kingdom and the United
States.
.P Minas Gerais was completed in January 1910 and Sao Paulo followed six months
later. However, a shortage of cash meant that neither ship was well maintained,
and such was the pace of naval development in the years prior to World War I,
they soon fell behind their contemporaries in terms of the latest developments
and modifications.
.P After Brazil declared war on Germany in 1917, both ships were sent to Europe,
although neither saw action and both were sent to the United States for long
overdue refits at the end of the war.
.P A further modernisation program was undertaken in the thirties, although only
Minas Gerais was to benefit from this as the poor condition of Sao Paulo made her
modernisation uneconomical. Minas Gerais was altered from a coal to an oil
burning vessel, her two funnels were trunked into one and she was given new
machinery. Her weaponry was also upgraded with the elevation on her main armament
being increased, two additional secondary guns were fitted and light anti-
aircraft weapons were also added.
.P Brazil broke off relations with Germany in January 1942 and she then declared
war in August of that year. By this time, Sao Paulo was essentially fit only to
act as a coastal defence vessel and even Minas Gerais was too obsolete to see
front-line service. Instead it was left to other Brazilian vessels to play their
part in the war; mostly by providing escort for convoys in the South Atlantic.
.P Minas Gerais was scrapped in 1954, Sao Paulo had been lost at sea while being
towed to the scrapyard three years earlier.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1323
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/15/2009 5:17:03 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
2/2

[4310 Bahia - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 18,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 26.5 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 4.7-inch (120mm), 6 x 3-pdr (47mm) guns
.B Displacement (standard): 3,100 tons
.B Thickest armour: No belt armour
.P As part of the Brazilian naval expansion program in the early years of the
20th Century (see Minas Gerais and Sao Paulo), the Brazilian Government ordered
two cruisers in 1907.
.P The two ships of the Bahia-class, Bahia and Rio Grande Do Sul, were designed
and built in the United Kingdom and were based on the Royal Navy`s scout cruisers
of the Adventure-class. They were each named after a Brazilian State.
.P As scout cruisers, these ships were fast and lightly armoured vessels and both
ships exceeded their designed speed in trials.
.P They saw service in the First world War, after which, in the twenties, they
had replacement machinery fitted that further improved their top speed. The ships
remained in service long enough to take an active part in World War II after the
Brazilian declaration of war on Germany in August 1942.
.P During the war the Bahia-class ships were mostly used to escort merchant
vessels in the South Atlantic. The war was almost over when, on the 4th July 1945
Bahia was operating in the South Atlantic. Suddenly there was an internal explosion
and she quickly sank with the loss of 294 officers and crew.
.P Her sister survived the war and was scrapped in 1948.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1324
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/15/2009 9:09:58 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

2/2

[4310 Bahia - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 18,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 26.5 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 4.7-inch (120mm), 6 x 3-pdr (47mm) guns
.B Displacement (standard): 3,100 tons
.B Thickest armour: No belt armour
.P As part of the Brazilian naval expansion program in the early years of the
20th Century (see Minas Gerais and Sao Paulo), the Brazilian Government ordered
two cruisers in 1907.
.P The two ships of the Bahia-class, Bahia and Rio Grande Do Sul, were designed
and built in the United Kingdom and were based on the Royal Navy`s scout cruisers
of the Adventure-class. They were each named after a Brazilian State.
.P As scout cruisers, these ships were fast and lightly armoured vessels and both
ships exceeded their designed speed in trials.
.P They saw service in the First world War, after which, in the twenties, they
had replacement machinery fitted that further improved their top speed. The ships
remained in service long enough to take an active part in World War II after the
Brazilian declaration of war on Germany in August 1942.
.P During the war the Bahia-class ships were mostly used to escort merchant
vessels in the South Atlantic. The war was almost over when, on the 4th July 1945
Bahia was operating in the South Atlantic. Suddenly there was an internal explosion
and she quickly sank with the loss of 294 officers and crew.

.P Her sister survived the war and was scrapped in 1948.


Might I suggest...

On July 4, 1945 while operating in the South Atlantic the Bahia suffered an internal
explosion causing her to quickly sink with the loss of 294 officers and crew.


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1325
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/15/2009 9:13:08 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

2/2

[4310 Bahia - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 18,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 26.5 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 4.7-inch (120mm), 6 x 3-pdr (47mm) guns
.B Displacement (standard): 3,100 tons
.B Thickest armour: No belt armour
.P As part of the Brazilian naval expansion program in the early years of the
20th Century (see Minas Gerais and Sao Paulo), the Brazilian Government ordered
two cruisers in 1907.
.P The two ships of the Bahia-class, Bahia and Rio Grande Do Sul, were designed
and built in the United Kingdom and were based on the Royal Navy`s scout cruisers
of the Adventure-class. They were each named after a Brazilian State.
.P As scout cruisers, these ships were fast and lightly armoured vessels and both
ships exceeded their designed speed in trials.
.P They saw service in the First world War, after which, in the twenties, they
had replacement machinery fitted that further improved their top speed. The ships
remained in service long enough to take an active part in World War II after the
Brazilian declaration of war on Germany in August 1942.
.P During the war the Bahia-class ships were mostly used to escort merchant
vessels in the South Atlantic. The war was almost over when, on the 4th July 1945
Bahia was operating in the South Atlantic. Suddenly there was an internal explosion
and she quickly sank with the loss of 294 officers and crew.

.P Her sister survived the war and was scrapped in 1948.


Might I suggest...

On July 4, 1945 while operating in the South Atlantic the Bahia suffered an internal
explosion causing her to quickly sink with the loss of 294 officers and crew.

Warspite1

a) You may suggest, and b) I have amended the file - thanks


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1326
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 7:15:07 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

I hope your going to give credit to Wosung and Froonp for providing the links and information on both these ships.

Euh... what credit ?
I don't remember having found something about the Mexican ships, did I ?

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1327
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 7:24:17 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Oh well - looks like ADG got that one wrong - Patrice/Steve - how do you want to play this? Leave as is or amend?

Well, I think we should rename it from Gascoigne to Gascogne.

But it is present in the Missed the Bus, Lebensraum, Waking Giant, Brute Force, Darkness before the Dawn, Decline and Fall scenarios... So I'll leave that to Steve as this may cause bugs.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1328
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 7:31:19 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
The Galissonnière, you are saying it should be spelled La Galissonnière ?
If so, I prefer leaving that change to Steve, as this ship is included in setups, and me changing it would cause errors in all new game creations. Anyway this is not a biggie, as far as Galissonnière is rightly spelled. It is spelled like that Galissonnière, not like that Galissonniere in the datafiles.

The Galissonnière (spelled "La Galissonnière" normaly) is present in the following scenarios :
Facist tide
Missed the bus
Lebensraum
Waking Giant
Brute Force
Darkness before Dawn
Decline and Fall
Global War


(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1329
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 7:54:38 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

I hope your going to give credit to Wosung and Froonp for providing the links and information on both these ships.

Euh... what credit ?
I don't remember having found something about the Mexican ships, did I ?

Warspite1

Patrice - I think Extraneous was alluding to a thread post from a couple of years ago when Terje? was enquiring about the
Anahuac. There was a response in Spanish that you or someone (Wosung?) were able to shed some light on. The point is, the website that provided the info is mentioned in the bibliography - not you!

That said, I am not happy with one source of info - and although I have sufficient to complete the write-ups, I will be looking for additional sources.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 8/16/2009 8:00:20 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1330
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 7:57:47 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Oh well - looks like ADG got that one wrong - Patrice/Steve - how do you want to play this? Leave as is or amend?

Well, I think we should rename it from Gascoigne to Gascogne.

But it is present in the Missed the Bus, Lebensraum, Waking Giant, Brute Force, Darkness before the Dawn, Decline and Fall scenarios... So I'll leave that to Steve as this may cause bugs.

Warspite 1

If, as you suspect, Steve chooses to leave this (in order not to attract bugs) would you prefer me to amend the master list on the basis that this affects nothing program wise? The only reason for not doing so would be that the write-up and the counter would then be different. I`ll leave as is until you/Steve confirm. Thanks.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1331
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 8:31:20 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
The Galissonnière, you are saying it should be spelled La Galissonnière ?
If so, I prefer leaving that change to Steve, as this ship is included in setups, and me changing it would cause errors in all new game creations. Anyway this is not a biggie, as far as Galissonnière is rightly spelled. It is spelled like that Galissonnière, not like that Galissonniere in the datafiles.

The Galissonnière (spelled "La Galissonnière" normaly) is present in the following scenarios :
Facist tide
Missed the bus
Lebensraum
Waking Giant
Brute Force
Darkness before Dawn
Decline and Fall
Global War



Patrice,

Please make these corrections and let me know that is what has changed when you send me the new files. I'll modify the setup code to match. This is no big deal, but it does have to be coordinated.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1332
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 8:57:32 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

I hope your going to give credit to Wosung and Froonp for providing the links and information on both these ships.

Euh... what credit ?
I don't remember having found something about the Mexican ships, did I ?

Warspite1

Patrice - I think Extraneous was alluding to a thread post from a couple of years ago when Terje? was enquiring about the
Anahuac. There was a response in Spanish that you or someone (Wosung?) were able to shed some light on. The point is, the website that provided the info is mentioned in the bibliography - not you!

That said, I am not happy with one source of info - and although I have sufficient to complete the write-ups, I will be looking for additional sources.


Well, it is no problem to me if I'm not credited, I'm not a valuable source navywise. I only know that the Essexes and the Iowas rock, that's all

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1333
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 10:05:48 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Please make these corrections and let me know that is what has changed when you send me the new files. I'll modify the setup code to match. This is no big deal, but it does have to be coordinated.

Done.
I'll send you that soon, and also to Robert so that he can change in the writeup file.
Also I found some names for him to correct in the writeups.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1334
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/16/2009 7:17:52 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
In response to Froonp # 1329

Renaming the ship to Gascogne is not a problem because the ship was actually planned but never started.

There is a problem naming the ship Galissonnière.

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1335
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/17/2009 10:50:44 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
..and back to the Italians. There is a shortage of deployment detail for some of these units (July - December 1940) so any assistance would be appreciated as ever.

[5011 Diaz - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 95,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 36.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 6-inch (152mm), 6 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 7,080 tons
.B Thickest armour: 1-inch (belt)
.P The first light cruisers built for the Regia Marina (RM) after the First
World War was the Condottieri type. Within this type were six classes or sub
groups. The two-ship Cadorna-class made up the second group.
.P These ships were built for the RM between 1930 and 1933. The first group were
not a very successful design, but a range of improvements were made at the design
stage for the second group. Although the armament and machinery for the second
group was the same as that of the first, the Cadornas proved much more stable and
sea-worthy ships.
.P The main differences were in the detail. Although of the same dimensions as
the first group, the Cadornas had no tumblehome i.e. the sides of the ship were
relatively straight-sided. This had the effect of improving the internal space.
They were fitted with improved versions of the same calibre guns and their
superstructure was less top-heavy.
.P These ships were built with speed in mind, the necessity for speed being that
the class were designed as destroyer killers. However, this came at a cost in
armour protection.
.P Armando Diaz was completed in April 1933, the second of the two Cadornas. Diaz
and the cruisers of the 4th Division were part of the Battle Group, that provided
distant cover for the convoy operation that led to the Battle of Punta Stilo on
the 9th July 1940 (see Giuilo Cesare). The battle proved inconclusive and Diaz
had only a subsidiary role, from which she emerged unscathed.
.P Her role from then was mainly to provide escort for minelaying operations and
this continued until the end of the year, when she was transferred to the
Adriatic. The Italians had set up a special command to organise convoys to
Albania following Mussolini`s decision to invade Greece in October 1940 (see
Transport Counter 5036). After some heavy losses the RM had to strengthen the
initial escort force, and Diaz was one of the reinforcements.
.P At the end of the following month she was sent to Naples with the cruiser
Bande Nere in order to escort an important troop convoy to North Africa. On the
25th February, She was sailing off Kerkennah Island, Tunisia, when she was
torpedoed by the submarine HMS Upright. She sank with the loss of 500 officers
and men.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1336
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/18/2009 9:01:55 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
...an unfortunate Italian heavy cruiser......

[4996 Pola - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 95,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 32 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 8-inch (203mm), 16 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 14,133 tons
.B Thickest armour: 6-inch (belt)
.P The Zaras were a class of four heavy cruisers that were improved versions
of the preceding Trento-class. The main and secondary armament of this latter
class remained the same as the Trentos, while the improvements took the form of
heavier armour protection.
.P In order to try and keep within the Washington Treaty limits, the armour was
actually reduced in thickness from the original specification, but the class
remained well armoured compared to their contemporaries, even with the reduction.
.P The Zaras were actually just over the weight limit even with the thinner
armour and a cut in top speed of four knots compared to the Trentos, but the
difference was not as blatantly in contavention as some others.
.P The Zaras were a very good all round design that combined, speed, armour and
hitting power in good measure. The loss of three ships early in the war said more
about Regia Marina (RM) operational shortcomings, than it does about problems with
the ships design. The class were named after provinces in the north-east of
Italy.
.P Pola was completed in December 1932. Upon the Italian declaration of war on
the 10th June 1940, the RM began the usual minelaying precautions (see Barbiano).
Two days later, Pola was ordered to sail to search for Royal Navy cruisers that
were bombarding Tobruk. Despite a large search party, no contact was made (see
San Giorgio).
.P Pola and the cruisers of the 1st Cruiser Division provided the distant cover
for the convoy operation that led to the Battle of Punta Stilo (Calabria) on the
9th July (see Giuilo Cesare). The battle proved inconclusive and Pola was not
damaged.
.P She was part of the Italian Fleet for what proved to be perhaps the biggest
missed opportunity for the RM in World War II. The Royal Navy were attempting a
supply operation to Malta, Operation HATS, covered by the Mediterranean Fleet.
The Italian Fleet had an overwhelming superiority in fire-power and ship numbers
but their fleet was recalled to base rather than remain at sea (see Conti Di
Cavour); it was a golden opportunity missed.
.P At the end of September, the British launched a supply and troop reinforcement
operation from Alexandria to Malta, again covered by the Mediterranean Fleet.
Pola was part of the Italian Fleet that sortied briefly, but then returned to
base when spotted by aircraft from the aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious.
.P At the end of November, she took part in the inconclusive Battle of Cape
Teulada in which the Italians failed to defeat a weaker Royal Navy force,
although they did cause damage to the heavy cruiser Berwick (see Fiume).
.P On the 14th December, Pola was damaged during a British air raid on Naples,
but she was back in action for what would be the last time three months later.
The Royal Navy were escorting convoys to and from Greece and in response, Admiral
Iachino put to sea in the battleship Vittorio Veneto, accompanied by six heavy
cruisers, Pola, Zara, Fiume, Trieste, Trento and Bolzano; the light cruisers
Abruzzi and Garibaldi and their destroyer escorts.
.P The British deployed a cruiser force under Vice-Admiral Pridham-Wippell that
consisted of Ajax, Gloucester, Orion and HMAS Perth and accompanying destroyers,
ahead of Admiral Cunningham`s heavier units; the carrier Formidable, the
battleships Barham, Valiant and Warspite and their escorting destroyers.
Cunningham`s ships were heading north to rendezvous with the cruisers off Crete.
.P What became the Battle of Cape Matapan began on the morning of the 28th March
1940. Three of the Italian heavy cruisers came upon the British cruiser force and
salvoes were exchanged. After an hour, with little damage done to either side,
Iachino ordered his cruisers to break off, despite their superior armament. When
they did, Pridham-Wippell ordered his fleet to turn around and follow the Italian
ships. Then, when Vittorio Veneto came in range and fired on the British
cruisers, Pridham-Wippell ordered a withdrawal; inviting the Italians to chase
them.
.P By now, with both hunter and hunted sailing toward Cunningham, the British
Admiral ordered aircraft from Formidable to attack. An attack was launched
against Vittorio Veneto but to no effect. Alarmed by this development, Iachino
decided to make for home. A second air strike was launched and this time Vittorio
Veneto was hit, resulting in a damaged propeller. The battleship stopped for
repairs to be carried out and eventually got away at much reduced speed. A third
strike was launched, but this time, the aircraft found Pola. She was badly
damaged in the attack and stopped dead in the water. By now it was late in the
day and Iachino, not thinking the British would pursue at night, sent Pola`s
sister ships Zara and Fiume, together with a destroyer escort, to help the
disabled cruiser.
.P However, Cunningham had been itching for a fight with the Italians since June
and only needed a hint of an opportunity. He decided to pursue the enemy despite
the fact that with every passing minute he was heading further toward Italian
airfields. But fortune favours the brave and so it was to prove on this occasion.
.P The Italian ships, having no radar, were completely unaware of the approaching
battleships. In addition, the crews were not at action stations, despite not
knowing exactly what the Royal Navy had done after the engagement earlier in the
day. Cunningham`s battleships came out of the dark and opened fire, effectively
from point blank range. Within just a few minutes the Zara and Fiume were ablaze
and sank. Two Italian destroyers were also sunk in the one sided action, and a
further one badly damaged. The British considered towing Pola, but the danger of
being caught in the open by Italian aircraft, once the morning came was too big a
risk. After removing her crew, Pola was sunk with torpedoes.
.P The battle had been a disaster for the Italians, costing them five ships and
just over 2,300 officers and men.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 8/20/2009 7:44:15 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1337
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/19/2009 4:49:35 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
[4307 Minas Gerais - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 23,500 hp
.B Top Speed: 21 knots
.B Main armament: 12 x 12-inch (305mm), 22 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns
.B Displacement (standard): 21,200 tons
.B Thickest armour: 9-inch (belt)






Attachment (1)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1338
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/19/2009 4:50:27 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
[4310 Bahia - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 18,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 26.5 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 4.7-inch (120mm), 6 x 3-pdr (47mm) guns
.B Displacement (standard): 3,100 tons
.B Thickest armour: No belt armour

Bahia cruiser :




Attachment (1)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1339
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/19/2009 4:51:06 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
[5011 Diaz - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 95,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 36.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 6-inch (152mm), 6 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 7,080 tons
.B Thickest armour: 1-inch (belt)

Diaz :




Attachment (1)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1340
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/19/2009 4:52:04 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
[4996 Pola - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 95,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 32 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 8-inch (203mm), 16 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 14,133 tons
.B Thickest armour: 6-inch (belt)

Zara cruiser :




Attachment (1)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1341
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/19/2009 4:55:20 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
[4304 Anahuac - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 6,800 hp
.B Top Speed: 14 knots
.B Main armament: 2 x 9-inch (240mm), 4 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 3,162 tons
.B Thickest armour: 14-inch (belt)






Attachment (1)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1342
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/20/2009 2:44:11 AM   
Mike Dubost

 

Posts: 273
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento, CA
Status: offline
In Post 1337, the reference to the Battle of Cape Matapan gives me a chance to boast about having met a woman who helped win that battle without ever leaving the UK.

The Italians used an Enigma machine to send out ciphered orders for the naval sortie. Mavis Batey (nee Lever) was able to perform one of Ultra's first successful Enigma decipherments on this message, and as a result, the RN knew what the RM was planning. By skillful use of this knowledge and superior seamanship/gunnery, the RN won. Is there enough room to add a sentence about Ms Lever's success to this description? It would be a nice "shout out" to a woman I found to be a charming elderly lady in 2002.

I have often remembered her remark "In my day, women knew how to get what we wanted and still have the door held open for us", as it sounds like something my mother's aunt (of the same approximate age as Mrs. Batey) would say.

I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1343
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/20/2009 8:04:20 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

In Post 1337, the reference to the Battle of Cape Matapan gives me a chance to boast about having met a woman who helped win that battle without ever leaving the UK.

The Italians used an Enigma machine to send out ciphered orders for the naval sortie. Mavis Batey (nee Lever) was able to perform one of Ultra's first successful Enigma decipherments on this message, and as a result, the RN knew what the RM was planning. By skillful use of this knowledge and superior seamanship/gunnery, the RN won. Is there enough room to add a sentence about Ms Lever's success to this description? It would be a nice "shout out" to a woman I found to be a charming elderly lady in 2002.

I have often remembered her remark "In my day, women knew how to get what we wanted and still have the door held open for us", as it sounds like something my mother's aunt (of the same approximate age as Mrs. Batey) would say.

I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular.

Warspite1

Mike, I would look at any suggestion you have. I am not sure exactly what you have in mind - mentioning that the British knew in advance or actually mentioning the lady in question?? If the later, I think difficult to know how that would fit but willing to have a look.

"I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular." - Yes me too



_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Mike Dubost)
Post #: 1344
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/21/2009 2:50:48 AM   
Mike Dubost

 

Posts: 273
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

In Post 1337, the reference to the Battle of Cape Matapan gives me a chance to boast about having met a woman who helped win that battle without ever leaving the UK.

The Italians used an Enigma machine to send out ciphered orders for the naval sortie. Mavis Batey (nee Lever) was able to perform one of Ultra's first successful Enigma decipherments on this message, and as a result, the RN knew what the RM was planning. By skillful use of this knowledge and superior seamanship/gunnery, the RN won. Is there enough room to add a sentence about Ms Lever's success to this description? It would be a nice "shout out" to a woman I found to be a charming elderly lady in 2002.

I have often remembered her remark "In my day, women knew how to get what we wanted and still have the door held open for us", as it sounds like something my mother's aunt (of the same approximate age as Mrs. Batey) would say.

I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular.

Warspite1

Mike, I would look at any suggestion you have. I am not sure exactly what you have in mind - mentioning that the British knew in advance or actually mentioning the lady in question?? If the later, I think difficult to know how that would fit but willing to have a look.

"I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular." - Yes me too





Well, we could try something to the effect of "Unfortunately for the Italians, the Enigma message they had sent out with the order for the naval movement had been intercepted. In one of the Ultra program's first major successes, Mavis Lever had decrypted the message."

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1345
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/21/2009 8:53:40 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

In Post 1337, the reference to the Battle of Cape Matapan gives me a chance to boast about having met a woman who helped win that battle without ever leaving the UK.

The Italians used an Enigma machine to send out ciphered orders for the naval sortie. Mavis Batey (nee Lever) was able to perform one of Ultra's first successful Enigma decipherments on this message, and as a result, the RN knew what the RM was planning. By skillful use of this knowledge and superior seamanship/gunnery, the RN won. Is there enough room to add a sentence about Ms Lever's success to this description? It would be a nice "shout out" to a woman I found to be a charming elderly lady in 2002.

I have often remembered her remark "In my day, women knew how to get what we wanted and still have the door held open for us", as it sounds like something my mother's aunt (of the same approximate age as Mrs. Batey) would say.

I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular.

Warspite1

Mike, I would look at any suggestion you have. I am not sure exactly what you have in mind - mentioning that the British knew in advance or actually mentioning the lady in question?? If the later, I think difficult to know how that would fit but willing to have a look.

"I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular." - Yes me too





Well, we could try something to the effect of "Unfortunately for the Italians, the Enigma message they had sent out with the order for the naval movement had been intercepted. In one of the Ultra program's first major successes, Mavis Lever had decrypted the message."

Perhaps, "played an important role" or "participated in". As I understand the Enigma decryption process it involved a lot of people (starting with work done by the Poles - before the British ever got involved).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Mike Dubost)
Post #: 1346
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/21/2009 9:17:13 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

In Post 1337, the reference to the Battle of Cape Matapan gives me a chance to boast about having met a woman who helped win that battle without ever leaving the UK.

The Italians used an Enigma machine to send out ciphered orders for the naval sortie. Mavis Batey (nee Lever) was able to perform one of Ultra's first successful Enigma decipherments on this message, and as a result, the RN knew what the RM was planning. By skillful use of this knowledge and superior seamanship/gunnery, the RN won. Is there enough room to add a sentence about Ms Lever's success to this description? It would be a nice "shout out" to a woman I found to be a charming elderly lady in 2002.

I have often remembered her remark "In my day, women knew how to get what we wanted and still have the door held open for us", as it sounds like something my mother's aunt (of the same approximate age as Mrs. Batey) would say.

I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular.

Warspite1

Mike, I would look at any suggestion you have. I am not sure exactly what you have in mind - mentioning that the British knew in advance or actually mentioning the lady in question?? If the later, I think difficult to know how that would fit but willing to have a look.

"I guess I have a slight case of hero worship where the WWII generation in general are concerned, and those I have met in particular." - Yes me too





Well, we could try something to the effect of "Unfortunately for the Italians, the Enigma message they had sent out with the order for the naval movement had been intercepted. In one of the Ultra program's first major successes, Mavis Lever had decrypted the message."

Warspite1

I may add something general about the intelligence, but I think the naming of an individual looks out of place here - so I`ll pass on that, but thanks for the suggestion .


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Mike Dubost)
Post #: 1347
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/23/2009 9:54:34 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Please see the write-up for the battlship Bismarck, and the story of her one and only voyage.

[4765 Bismarck - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 138,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 29 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 15-inch (381mm), 12 x 5.9-inch (150mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 50,900 tons
.B Thickest armour: 12.5-inch (belt)
.P The Bismarcks were the first battleships built for the German Navy after
World War I. The first ship was ordered in November 1935, after the conclusion of
the Anglo-German Naval Treaty. Both ships were laid down in 1936, although
neither were completed by the start of the Second World War.
.P Their design was based upon the First World War vintage Baden-class and this
brought with it limitations to their defensive capability. The main problem being
the lack of deck armour that made the ships vulnerable to plunging shell fire.
They were however, very difficult ships to sink, courtesy of their extensive
watertight compartments.
.P They were powerful ships with a 15-inch main armament that, combined with a
speed of 29 knots, made them at least equal to anything the Royal Navy could
offer. They also featured an excellent fire control system, but the effects of
this were frequently hampered by problems with the German shells, that on many
occasions failed to explode. The Bismarcks provided a stable gun platform thanks
largely to their wide beam. They could have benefitted from a dual purpose
secondary armament that would have negated the need for separate anti-aircraft
(AA) guns, but the Germans had other priorities during the inter-war years.
.P The class also had a much greater range than their British contemporaries,
ideal for the commerce raiding activity that they were expected to carry out.
This gave these Kriegsmarine ships more flexibility in their dealings with the
battleships of the Royal Navy.
.P The largest ships ever completed for the Kriegsmarine were named, fittingly,
after two of the country`s most prominent characters of the late 19th and early
20th centuries; Otto von Bismarck, the first Chancellor of the unified Germany,
and Grand Admiral Alfred von Tirpitz, who helped in the building of the Kaiser`s
Navy in the lead up to the First World War.
.P Bismarck was completed in August 1940. From then until December, was a time of
crew training and the testing of her weaponry and propulsion systems to ensure
she was fully worked up for active service. She re-entered the dockyard at the
end of the year to have further work carried out, and from then until April 1941,
she was back in the Baltic under-going intensive work-up.
.P Bismarck took part in her one and only operation in May 1941; Rheinübung.
Following Operation Berlin (see Gneisenau), the Kriegsmarine intended to launch a
much bigger surface raiding operation in the Atlantic. Ideally this would mean
Bismarck and one or two other vessels sailing from Germany and meeting up with
the battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau; the latter two having sailed from
Brest, France at around the same time. As it turned out, Scharnhorst was under-
going maintenance for wear and tear incurred during Berlin, and Gneisenau was
torpedoed while at Brest and so also unavailable. Bismarck`s sister Tirpitz was
not combat ready and the heavy cruisers Admiral Hipper and Lützow were being
refitted after their recent commerce raiding activities. As a result, Rheinübung
would take place with only the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen available to accompany
Bismarck.
.P For this operation, Admiral Lütjens was put in charge of the German force and
naturally Bismarck was his Flagship. The battleship was commanded by Captain
Lindemann. The operation should have commenced at the end of April, but Prinz
Eugen was damaged by a mine and she required repair work that took three weeks.
.P Rheinübung finally got underway on the 18th May, when the two ships sailed
from Gotenhafen (Gdynia) and headed for Bergen, southern Norway, where they
refuelled. Whilst at Bergen, they were spotted by a Royal Air Force (RAF)
reconaissance aircraft and their whereabouts reported to Admiral Tovey, in
command of the Royal Navy`s Home Fleet. As a result, the RAF were ordered to
attack, but by the time the bombers arrived off Norway, the Germans had sailed.
.P Now heading north, Lütjens had three break-out alternatives; the Denmark
Strait, the Iceland - Faroes Gap or even the Scotland - Faroes Gap. He chose the
same route that had been used by all surface raiders successfully to date; the
Denmark Strait, between Greenland and Iceland. Although the Strait was narrow and
contained British laid mines, it did offer the furthest distance from the British
fleet base at Scapa Flow.
.P Meanwhile, in response to hearing the news that the German ships had sailed,
Tovey had ordered a strengthening of the patrols along the two most likely break-
out routes. A total of five cruisers were at sea, two of them in the Denmark
Strait. These were the heavy cruisers Suffolk and Norfolk under the command of
Rear-Admiral Wake-Walker. In addition, he had ordered the new battleship Prince
of Wales and the battlecruiser Hood to sea to sail south of Iceland to await firm
intelligence on where the Germans were. Tovey remained at Scapa Flow on board the
battleship Duke of York, along with the aircraft carrier Victorious and four
cruisers.
.P In the early evening of the 23rd May, Suffolk`s look-outs spotted the German
ships and there then followed a game of cat-and-mouse as the British ships tried
desperately to keep contact with Bismarck, while at the same time staying out of
range. Bismarck had opened up with her main armament for the first time in anger
when Norfolk had got too close, but the cruiser managed to hide in the fog and
she was not hit. Norfolk`s radar was rather limited, but thanks to the more
modern radar fitted to Suffolk, Wake-Walker was able to provide a report of
exactly where the Germans were, their course and their speed and as a result,
Vice-Admiral Holland in the Hood was able to set a course to intercept.
.P Initially, Lütjens could not shake off the cruisers, but eventually he managed
to do so, and at a critical point in the proceedings. Had Holland continued to
know Lütjens whereabouts, he could have ensured that battle took place on the
most favourable terms for his ships. Unfortunately for the British, Holland had
to launch his own search mission and so when, at 0530hrs on the 24th May he came
across Bismarck and Prinz Eugen to the northwest of his force, the positioning of
his ships was less than ideal.
.P Hood, with eight 15-inch guns, was the lead ship at the time, with Prince of
Wales roughly 800 yards to the right and rear of her. The two German ships were
on a roughly parallel course but, importantly, at enough of an angle that all of
their guns could be brought to bear. Holland ordered the range to close as fast
as possible in order that Hood would be less at risk of plunging shell fire. He
would then turn to port once his ships were sufficiently close to the Germans.
Although the Royal Navy ships only had their front turrets able to fire, they did
present the smallest target possible during this phase.
.P Hood opened the firing at 0552hrs at a range of just over 25,000 yards, but
mistakenly fired at Prinz Eugen, while Prince of Wales, quickly realising the
error, switched fire to Bismarck. Lütjens now had a choice to make; should he
engage the capital ships or try and withdraw? With the range reducing fast it is
reported that Captain Lindemann shouted "I will not let my ship get shot out from
under my arse!". Three minutes, and what must have seemed like an age after the
British began the firing, Lütjens ordered both German ships to concentrate their
fire on the Hood.
.P It is believed that the first hit on Holland`s Flagship came from the 8-inch
shells of Prinz Eugen rather than from Bismarck, whose first three salvoes all
missed. The hit on Hood started a fire that spread across the boat deck and
reached the ready-use ammunition lockers. The boat deck soon became an inferno as
4-inch shells began detonating, but the fires could not be put out until the
exploding ammunition had been expended. A second hit was then made on Hood`s
spotting top. By this time, despite major mechanical problems with the main guns
on the Prince of Wales, three of her shells had struck Bismarck. Two were of
little importance, but the consequences for Bismarck of the third will be seen
later.
.P The Germans superb fire control now ensured that the two Kriegsmarine ships
were finding their target regularly, and the Royal Navy ships, particularly the
Hood, were in serious trouble. As soon as Holland believed it safe to do so, he
gave the order to turn his ships to port and so allow the rear turrets of each
ship to come into the action. But just as Hood was commencing her turn, disaster
struck. Bismarck’s 5th salvo had hit around Hood`s mainmast area and within a
second or two a thin funnel shaped flame shot out from the ship. This was
followed by an explosion and her being covered in smoke. The Hood rolled to port
and began to sink very quickly, breaking in at least two places as she did so. It
was less than nine minutes since the battle had started.
.P Those on board Bismarck, Prinz Eugen and the Prince of Wales that had
witnessed what had happened, were left in stunned silence. The "Mighty Hood" had
quite simply blown up, taking all but 3 of her crew of 1,418 with her to the
bottom of the sea. However, there was no time to dwell on this. For the Germans,
a change of target to Prince of Wales was required; for Prince of Wales, the
first task was to avoid the wreckage of the sinking Hood, as the battleship
executed her turn to port.
.P All ships achieved their initial tasks and the Prince of Wales was now being
hit regularly by the German ships. She was lucky to survive a 15-inch hit
underneath her armour belt when, not for the first time, Bismarck`s shells failed
to explode. She also took a direct hit against her bridge that killed all men
there with the exception of two, one of whom was her commander, Captain Leach.
With continued problems affecting her guns, Leach felt he had no choice but to
withdraw and Lütjens decided not to chase after her, the battle finishing at
0609hrs.
.P Lütjens then had to decide what to do next. The conclusion he came to was to
try and detach Prinz Eugen, which would continue with a limited Rheinübung, while
Bismarck would make for the nearest friendly port, which was at Brest. Why did
Lütjens not continue the operation with Bismarck? One of the three hits scored by
Prince of Wales on Bismarck had holed her below her armour belt and in the
process had flooded one of the oil storage tanks. This in itself was not too
serious, although it also meant that the oil further forward could not be used
either. Even so, she still had sufficient fuel on board to either get home or to
get to one of the tankers stationed in the Atlantic for the purpose. More serious
was that any high speed manoeuvres or violent shifts to port or starboard would
mean adding further pressure to the already strained bulkheads in the flooded
section. In addition, she was laying a thick trail of oil in her wake that was
seeping from the holed area.
.P Lütjens was also acutely aware that his ships were once more being shadowed as
the Prince of Wales and the dogged Norfolk and Suffolk had joined up after the
earlier battle and were clinging onto the German ships. However, the Germans
managed to detach Prinz Eugen successfully when, in the early evening of the
24th and taking advantage of fog, the Bismarck turned first west, then north and
finally east, completely wrong footing the British. During this turn there was a
brief exchange of fire between Bismarck and the cruisers, but with no damage to
any ship. Bismarck then began the long journey home.
.P Although Wake-Walker had lost contact with Prinz Eugen, his force of three
ships were still shadowing Bismarck on her new south-easterly course. The
Admiralty had also ordered Force H, the aircraft carrier Ark Royal, the
battlecruiser Renown and the cruiser Sheffield, to sail north from Gibraltar.
Meanwhile, Tovey was continuing to try and close the gap in order to bring
Bismarck to battle. The battleship`s sudden change of course now meant that the
Royal Navy ships could catch the Bismarck. However, if they lost her again or she
changed course, there was every possibility that the British ships, with their
much lesser range, would run out of fuel before they were able to catch the
German battleship. In desperation, Tovey decided to launch an air strike using
the nine available Swordfish aircraft on Victorious. This despite the fact that
the aircrew were mostly inexperienced and could be considered unready for such an
operation.
.P Victorious and the four cruisers were detached from King George V, and the
carrier aircraft launched an attack just before midnight on the 24th. One torpedo
hit was achieved, although no damage was done. However, the violent manoeuvres by
Bismarck to avoid the torpedoes had resulted in further damage to the previously
torpedoed bow area. This damage required further repairs and Bismarck had to
reduce speed while these were effected. However, only a few hours later, in the
early hours of the 25th, Bismarck escaped the shadowing ships once more while all
the Royal Navy ships were zig-zagging as a defence against U-boats.
.P For the British, this could have been game-over; Tovey continued on a south-
westerly course, while Bismarck continued southeast to France. Both the Prince of
Wales and the Repulse, which had joined Tovey previously, now had to return to
base to refuel. Later, Victorious too would have to refuel. Tovey`s options were
becoming ever more limited; even if he found Bismarck. The British were left with
King George V, heading in the wrong direction, the battleship Rodney (which had
been heading to the United States for a refit when the Bismarck broke out) was
now some miles to the east, and Force H, still heading north from Gibraltar.
.P But then came an incredible stroke of fortune. Lütjens must have believed that
the British were still shadowing Bismarck many hours after they had actually lost
contact. This is the only possible explanation for why he then sent a long
message to headquarters. The message recounted the story of the breakout to date,
including the sinking of the Hood, but its length gave the British the
opportunity to plot from where the signals were coming from. Even then, the exact
location remained a mystery as Tovey and the Admiralty calculated different areas
where they believed Bismarck to be transmitting from. Tovey now believed Bismarck
to be heading for Norway and turned his ship northeast accordingly. Meanwhile,
Rodney and Force H were ordered by the Admiralty to assume Bismarck was heading
for France. By the time that Tovey`s mistake was confirmed, there was no chance
that King George V could catch Bismarck before she reached France. The British
finally made visual contact with Bismarck in the mid-morning of the 26th. A
Catalina flying-boat had been tasked with looking for the battleship in the area
she was now believed to be in. She was.
.P Having confirmed her position, there was now just the matter of sinking the
German vessel. For this, there was just one hope remaining, one ace left for the
Royal Navy to play. That ace came in the form of Ark Royal. If a torpedo strike
could be launched and Bismarck could be sufficiently damaged, then the remaining
Royal Navy ships left in the chase, King George V, Rodney, Renown, Sheffield,
Norfolk and Dorsetshire, could possibly catch her before she reached Brest.
.P Fifteen Fleet Air Arm Swordfish took off in the afternoon of the 26th May to
attack the battleship, but inadvertently attacked the cruiser Sheffield that had
raced ahead of Force H and was now shadowing Bismarck. Fortunately none of the
torpedoes struck and disaster was avoided, however, the Bismarck continued her
passage to France; and every minute saw her inching closer to safety. A second
wave of Swordfish from 810 and 818 Naval Air Squadrons was ordered to take off
early that evening and at 2100hrs they attacked. This time there was no mistake
and two hits on Bismarck were achieved. One of these caused little problem as the
armour belt did its job. However the second hit sealed the fate of the Bismarck.
.P The torpedo struck the stern of the ship and caused the rudder to jam at an
angle; Bismarck was now involuntarily travelling away from the safety of the
French coast and toward the British battleships. The Germans tried everything in
order to free the jammed rudder, but the damage caused by the torpedo to the
stern, hampered efforts to get at the problem. That night the British launched a
torpedo attack using Captain Vian`s 4th Destroyer Flotilla that had been diverted
from convoy escort duty previously. The attacks proved futile and the accuracy of
the Bismarck`s counter-fire surprised the destroyers, however these efforts had
done nothing to assist the repair efforts going on all night and the further
violent manoeuvring did more damage to the hull. Facing up to the grim reality of
the situation, during the night, Lütjens sent a message that he addressed to
Adolf Hitler, confirming that Bismarck would fight to the death. Hitler responded
that Germany would do all it could to help.
.P The battle began the next morning at 0847hrs, when the 16-inch guns of the
Rodney opened fire at just over 27,000 yards. King George V followed immediately
afterwards and finally Bismarck opened her account. Rodney found the range
quickly, as did Bismarck, although she was not to maintain this level of accuracy
as a result of earlier damage to the ship that affected her gunnery calculations.
.P King George V had problems finding the target initially but this problem was
soon rectified. Within a few minutes the range had reduced sufficiently that
secondary armament could be employed. The 8-inch guns of Norfolk began to open
up, and soon afterwards the similarly gunned Dorsetshire entered the battle. Just
over half an hour into the battle, Bismarck`s main armament was silenced. The
range was progrssively closed and by the end the British were effectively firing
at point blank range. Shell after shell tore into the hulk of what was once a
battleship and the pride of the Kriegsmarine.
.P Eventually, at 1021hrs the British battleships ceased firing. Frustrated that
the Bismarck could not be sunk with gunfire, but at the same time satisfied that
the damage was so great that she could never be repaired, Tovey ordered the
Dorsetshire to sink Bismarck with torpedoes.
.P There is debate as to whether it was these torpedoes or the scuttling charges
set by Bismarck`s crew that sank her. Maybe it was a combination of the two.
Either way, Bismarck rolled over and sank, taking Lütjens, Lindemann and almost
2,100 of her crew with her. There were just 115 survivors, almost all of whom
were picked up by the Dorsetshire and the destroyer Maori. There would have been
more saved but a U-boat was spotted by look-outs on the cruiser and the British
ships vacated the area.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1348
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/23/2009 11:42:24 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
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Just some info upon the Bismarck death : I saw recently a very interesting documentary with divers filming the wreck on the ocean bottom, the conclusion was that a torp penetrated a non-armored stern side location and generated massive flooding which caused the sinking, or at least was sufficient to...

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1349
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/24/2009 12:10:26 PM   
morgil


Posts: 114
Joined: 5/9/2008
From: Bergen, Norway
Status: offline
You are probably refering to the documentary funded by a British TV channel in 2001, where they filmed the wreck using ROVs.
Most of their theories have been dismembered by other expeditions, using much better equipment and enlisting experts on the matter.

There is a really good Wikipedia article on the Bismarck, and even though she had a structural flaw that made the stern break of just before sinking, it is highly probable that unless she had been scuttled by her crew, she would have been afloat for several days.


_____________________________

Gott weiss ich will kein Engel sein.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 1350
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