Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land Page: <<   < prev  53 54 [55] 56 57   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 4:15:54 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

Okay, here we go

For starters a general question You write "Japan`s" instead of "Japan's". So uhm, that's an " ` " instead of an " ' " Same with IJN`s instead of IJN's.
Not sure if that's correct. I've noticed that you have used it in every writedown... so I'm not so sure if it's worth the trouble changing it all.


" The dates printed on the back of the counters
do not tie up in any meaningful way with build dates for the various classes of
Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) submarine class and therefore the counter date
should be ignored in most cases. "

Shouldn't this be: ... various classes of the Imperial Japanese Navy... ? ... not sure though, the sentence doesn't read fluidly.. if you know what I mean.

".P The size of World War II Japanese submarines gave rise to further problems
too. They were very slow to submerge and so were much easier to attack and kill
once found. Generally, the maximum depth they could operate at was significantly
shallower than their contempories."

Contemporaries... right?

" As such
they were faster and could dive further, although their basic armament was the
same."

..could dive... deeper?

So far so good, keep up your good work,

Josh

Warspite1

Pleased you are still around!

Well what do you know? I've been using the wrong button for the last two years!! I will amend going forward - although I cannot face going back into every write up for this .

I have re-written the rubbish sentence re the counter dates - let me know if this reads better (see below)?

I think my spelling of Contemporaries is correct?

Agreed deeper is a better word in this context - amendment made.


.P These World In Flames counters represent a number of submarines rather than
any specific individual submarine. Note, the dates printed on the back of the WIF
counters do not necessarily tie up with actual build dates for the various
Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) submarine classes. As a result, these counter dates
should be ignored for the purposes of these write-ups.

Thanks for your feed-back as ever


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 1621
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 4:59:32 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

Posts: 330
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline
This thread is emblematic of the misdirected labor that plagues this game. Are insanely overlong Wikipedia entries really necessary for every counter? The Bulgarian MIL unit? Seriously? If CWIF is the ultra-niche product that every Matrix apologist argues it to be, certainly everyone likely to purchase the game already has a raft of WWII reference books clogging their bookshelves, and additional writeups are unnecessary? I know I've got plenty of books and don't need duplicate, amateur-edited information stuffing up my computer.

So much hard work delivered to such little value.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1622
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 6:07:36 PM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline
I'm okay with the lengthy unit descriptions. Though trivial unit history knowledge would be secondary to me, than to have a plate drawings/rough inventory of the frontline troops/equipment. Is that just me?

< Message edited by macgregor -- 2/18/2010 6:08:56 PM >

(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 1623
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 6:16:34 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This thread is emblematic of the misdirected labor that plagues this game. Are insanely overlong Wikipedia entries really necessary for every counter? The Bulgarian MIL unit? Seriously? If CWIF is the ultra-niche product that every Matrix apologist argues it to be, certainly everyone likely to purchase the game already has a raft of WWII reference books clogging their bookshelves, and additional writeups are unnecessary? I know I've got plenty of books and don't need duplicate, amateur-edited information stuffing up my computer.

So much hard work delivered to such little value.

Warspite1

Thank-you for your comments, and I respond as follows:

1. There is no mis-directed labour here. I am to computing what Hitler was to World Peace; hopeless. In taking on this task I am in no way being mis-directed from projects that will get the actual game completed quicker.

Furthermore, and as has been said numerous times, the completion or otherwise of these write-ups will in no way impact the bringing of MWIF to the market. If these are not finished and the game is ready - the game comes out; these will be completed in future patches.

2. A little disappointed that you called my work an "overlong Wikipedia entry" - I had hoped that it was obvious that this was not the case and that an awful lot of research has been done and effort expended to try and bring the ship counters to life. If I have failed I guess that is my problem, but I will keep plugging away to the best of my ability.

3. Is this amount of work necessary for every counter? Some people say yes, some say no and a third group I suspect, couldn`t care less. That is the beauty of these though; if you want to read them great, if not - ignore them.

4. I see you have a well stocked library of WWII reference material and that you do not need this additional information. I thought I had a decent reference library until I came to do these and realised what I don`t know. But that is by the by - the point is, if YOU don`t need these write-ups then ignore them.

Thank-you.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 1624
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 6:29:22 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

I'm okay with the lengthy unit descriptions. Though trivial unit history knowledge would be secondary to me, than to have a plate drawings/rough inventory of the frontline troops/equipment. Is that just me?

Warspite1

No it is not just you. One of the problems with these write-ups - like with any work - is that different people want different things; some love the personal stories, some like big picture, high level stuff and others like the technical aspects. I guess you can`t please all the people all the time




_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to macgregor)
Post #: 1625
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 6:33:52 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
@ Crusssdaddy

I don't know, it's the gamedesigner's decision, and speaking on personal terms here I do value a (lengthy) unit description. I *don't* have a raft of WWII books, and you *could* just google an unit if you would want to know more about it, but it is decided to put it (deservedly) in the game, so yeah I'm cool with that.
I don't know about the term "duplicate amateur-edited information", because in the end, almost *all* information is duplicated in one form or another. You would have to back to the source of it, the survivors of the event, the witnesses, the ones that were actually there, to get the best witness accounts of what actually happened... and even they can not be trusted solely as a source. So yeah there you go, yes it is duplicated (a habit you learn at the university ) and yes it is not 100% totally reliable information, then again... what intel is...?

What I do know is that these guys are doing 100% their utmost bestest ( ) to deliver a great game. Period.

Personally I don't care if it takes another couple of years to get finished. I've been waiting for Duke Nukem too for that long...and it looks like *that* one will need a few years as well.

< Message edited by Josh -- 2/18/2010 6:35:30 PM >

(in reply to macgregor)
Post #: 1626
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 6:47:57 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
"" Warspite1

Pleased you are still around!

Well what do you know? I've been using the wrong button for the last two years!! I will amend going forward - although I cannot face going back into every write up for this .

I have re-written the rubbish sentence re the counter dates - let me know if this reads better (see below)?

I think my spelling of Contemporaries is correct?

Agreed deeper is a better word in this context - amendment made.


.P These World In Flames counters represent a number of submarines rather than
any specific individual submarine. Note, the dates printed on the back of the WIF
counters do not necessarily tie up with actual build dates for the various
Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) submarine classes. As a result, these counter dates
should be ignored for the purposes of these write-ups.

Thanks for your feed-back as ever

""

Hohum, back to work...
Much obliged Warspite. The new sentence does read more fluid and makes more sense... IMHO.

Contemporaries.... but you write "contempories" in the write-up.... that one does not exist, well untill you discovered it that is

Hey I'm sorry I didn't mention the " ` "before, I did notice it before but wasn't so sure. Maybe it's possibe to replace all of the `with a ' with a Wordprogram? Don't know if that's possible or not, if not, I advise you to just leave it be. Maybe for some future update/patch, which will undoubtedly be released afterwards. Saves you the trouble, and a headache probably too.

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 1627
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 6:54:25 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh


Contemporaries.... but you write "contempories" in the write-up.... that one does not exist, well untill you discovered it that is


Warspite1

DOH!! - I will make the change .


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 1628
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 8:02:10 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This thread is emblematic of the misdirected labor that plagues this game. Are insanely overlong Wikipedia entries really necessary for every counter? The Bulgarian MIL unit? Seriously? If CWIF is the ultra-niche product that every Matrix apologist argues it to be, certainly everyone likely to purchase the game already has a raft of WWII reference books clogging their bookshelves, and additional writeups are unnecessary? I know I've got plenty of books and don't need duplicate, amateur-edited information stuffing up my computer.

So much hard work delivered to such little value.


Warpite's reply about impact on game development is correct. The unit writeups consume maybe 5 minutes of my time a month - most of which is spent speed-reading through this thread.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 1629
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 8:05:43 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This thread is emblematic of the misdirected labor that plagues this game. Are insanely overlong Wikipedia entries really necessary for every counter? The Bulgarian MIL unit? Seriously? If CWIF is the ultra-niche product that every Matrix apologist argues it to be, certainly everyone likely to purchase the game already has a raft of WWII reference books clogging their bookshelves, and additional writeups are unnecessary? I know I've got plenty of books and don't need duplicate, amateur-edited information stuffing up my computer.

So much hard work delivered to such little value.


If you really knew anything about the development process for this game you would not have posted this and proved it.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 1630
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 8:58:48 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

Posts: 330
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline
It has nothing to do with resource allocation - Steve has made it clear that he's the only clown in this circus, and even were programming help to be offered he would refuse it. It has to do with the fact that all of the activity on this project is completely superfluous to the presumed goal of bringing a computer version of WiF to life. WiF didn't have reams of unit background, and CWiF doesn't need it. And yet, here we have countless words, drawn from a million more worthy places, reformatted and regurgitated to no purpose. Why? It's a distraction that gives the appearance of progress, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

The last update was a real eye-opener: not only is Steve not making any headway, he is struggling to comprehend the very tools needed to do his job. I guess that's what happens when you begin a project in 2004 and are lapped by a half-dozen new software & hardware upgrades while on a six-year-and-counting road to nowhere.

But Steve is free to endlessly bumble and futz, and why? Because Matrix could absolutely care less. They have no investment at stake. But as long as those midget sub writeups keep coming, it keeps the fanboys happy. "We're making progress!"


(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 1631
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/18/2010 10:32:08 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

It has nothing to do with resource allocation - Steve has made it clear that he's the only clown in this circus, and even were programming help to be offered he would refuse it. It has to do with the fact that all of the activity on this project is completely superfluous to the presumed goal of bringing a computer version of WiF to life. WiF didn't have reams of unit background, and CWiF doesn't need it. And yet, here we have countless words, drawn from a million more worthy places, reformatted and regurgitated to no purpose. Why? It's a distraction that gives the appearance of progress, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

The last update was a real eye-opener: not only is Steve not making any headway, he is struggling to comprehend the very tools needed to do his job. I guess that's what happens when you begin a project in 2004 and are lapped by a half-dozen new software & hardware upgrades while on a six-year-and-counting road to nowhere.

But Steve is free to endlessly bumble and futz, and why? Because Matrix could absolutely care less. They have no investment at stake. But as long as those midget sub writeups keep coming, it keeps the fanboys happy. "We're making progress!"


Warspite1

So now you shift the argument because previous answers do not suit; you step over lines such that your disgusting comments get removed from threads and you begin name calling once more.

1. If activity is, in your opinion, superfluous, but it does not impact on resource allocation, then why does it bother you so much? I'll tell you what new unit write-ups give the impression of - that new unit write-ups are being completed, that's what - they are not a substitute for progress on the game. No one with any sense would think otherwise.

2. WIF did not have reams of unit background - so MWIF should not have it.....so there can be no concept of improving on an existing product? A decision was taken some time ago to include these write-ups - it was generally thought to be a good idea - what makes your opinion soooooo special?

3. Fanboys? Please - GROW UP.

Apparently a while ago you had an e-mail exchange with Harry Rowland that seemed to pacify you somewhat - what has changed? Or have you come here today just looking for an argument from, what was it?, "silly old codgers"?

Please, if you really are so disillusioned with what is going on here, then just walk away. Find a different game to focus on. Note: the word GAME - this is not life and death. Or better still, if you truly believe what you say, continue to lobby ADG for quicker action and see where that gets you.

As has been pointed out before, if Matrix do not continue with this project, who is going to pick up the pieces? You seem to think you have an answer to that and there are loads of companies out there just itching to get involved ..so enlighten us.




_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 1632
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/19/2010 3:37:04 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Because Matrix could absolutely care less.

Anybody know why Americans say "could care less" when the expression should be "couldn't care less"?

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1633
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/19/2010 4:28:02 AM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

Because Matrix could absolutely care less.

Anybody know why Americans say "could care less" when the expression should be "couldn't care less"?

Cheers, Neilster



Because many of us American (me included) are just too lazy with the English language, it is the same with me speaking or writting. I tend to be better dealing with numbers and/or equations than with the "word"...

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 1634
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/19/2010 2:06:13 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

Because Matrix could absolutely care less.

Anybody know why Americans say "could care less" when the expression should be "couldn't care less"?

Cheers, Neilster



Because many of us American (me included) are just too lazy with the English language, it is the same with me speaking or writting. I tend to be better dealing with numbers and/or equations than with the "word"...

OK...well good luck with the "writting"

Cheers, Neilster


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Neilster -- 4/22/2010 4:44:23 PM >

(in reply to wworld7)
Post #: 1635
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/19/2010 6:09:44 PM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline
Lord knows I should always use a spell checker when writing, but ahh...too lazy again...

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 1636
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/19/2010 8:51:34 PM   
ItBurns

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 1/3/2009
Status: offline
Personally I find Warspite's work immensely interesting. Each entry represents a different way to look at the war - a perspective from the small mans view. I greatly appreciate the UNPAID work he and the others are doing.

One of the reasons WiF has stands out to me is the personality of the units. The air forces and navies really do reflect the actual ones (or at least conceivable ones) and aren't just generic units with 5 tech levels of upgrades or 3rd Reich 9 factor fleets.

And as for the "are we there yet?" crowd, we'll get there when we get there. In the mean time have a donut and watch the beautiful scenery.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1637
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/19/2010 9:15:31 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ItBurns

Personally I find Warspite's work immensely interesting. Each entry represents a different way to look at the war - a perspective from the small mans view. I greatly appreciate the UNPAID work he and the others are doing.

One of the reasons WiF has stands out to me is the personality of the units. The air forces and navies really do reflect the actual ones (or at least conceivable ones) and aren't just generic units with 5 tech levels of upgrades or 3rd Reich 9 factor fleets.

And as for the "are we there yet?" crowd, we'll get there when we get there. In the mean time have a donut and watch the beautiful scenery.

Warspite1

Many thanks for your support ItBurns .


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to ItBurns)
Post #: 1638
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/20/2010 2:43:01 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
can't we go back to arguing about which version of the English language means which way the battle was lost?

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1639
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/20/2010 11:38:52 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

can't we go back to arguing about which version of the English language means which way the battle was lost?

Warspite1

??


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 1640
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/20/2010 3:36:12 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Here is my stab at the heavy cruiser Mikuma.

[4390 Mikuma - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 152,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 35 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 8-inch (203mm), 8 x 5-inch (127mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 13,668 tons
.B Thickest armour: 4-inch (belt)
.P The four ships of the Mogami-class were originally built for the Imperial
Japanese Navy (IJN) under the terms of the 1930 London Naval Treaty. They were
designated light cruisers, and were constructed between 1931 and 1937. Two
additional ships of the class, were ordered in 1941, but neither were completed.
.P Their original design had major problems, caused by trying to construct too
much ship on too little hull, and they went through two major reconstructions in
order to iron out the defects. Ultimately, they became heavy cruisers; exchanging
their fifteen 6.1-inch guns for ten 8-inch.
.P The main armament was fitted in five twin turrets, three forward and two aft.
The secondary armament was eight, 5-inch dual-purpose guns, again fitted in twin
turrets. Close-range weaponry was provided by eight 25mm and four 13.2mm guns,
but these were increased appreciably as the war progressed.
.P The IJN favoured the deployment of torpedoes on their cruisers and the Mogamis
were no exception, having twelve 24-inch torpedo tubes mounted in four triple
mounts. Two catapults were fitted and there was room for up to three aircraft.
.P Armour protection was similar to the preceding Takao-class, although the
horizontal protection was increased to 2.4-inches. Belt armour was 4-inches with
an extra inch added around the magazines.
.P The result of all the reconstruction work and modifications was that the ships
were massively overweight, although as the Japanese had renounced the 1936 London
Naval Treaty, this was of no consequence. They were ultimately to prove powerful
ships with a sensible top speed of 35 knots.
.P In December 1941, Mikuma was part of the 7th Cruiser Squadron (CS) that was
deployed to provide cover for the invasion convoys heading for Thailand and
Malaya (see Amphibious Counter 4434). She took part in the search for the Royal
Navy`s Force Z - the battleship Prince of Wales and the battlecruiser Repulse -
although played no part in their destruction (see Chokai). After the success of
the initial landings in Malaya, a second wave was launched on the 13th December
that would being the remainder of Yamashita`s 25th Army to Malaya. Mikuma once
more provided support for this operation.
.P Later that month Mikuma was ordered to sail to the west of Sarawak, northern
Borneo, where she provided support for the landings at Kuching which took place
on the 23rd December.
.P In the New Year, Mikuma was deployed in the South China Sea once more, first
as part of an offensive sweep after erroneous reports were received of British
capital ships at Singapore, and then as part of a covering force protecting
further re-supply of forces in Thailand / Malaya. She also covered landings that
took place at Endau on the 23rd.
.P The invasion of the Dutch East Indies had begun in the eastern islands of the
Dutch colony, and by the middle of February, the Japanese turned their attention
to the large island of Sumatra, located south and west of the Malayan peninsular.
The first target was Palembang, on the southeast coast. The invasion convoy set
out from Camranh Bay on the 9th February (see Transport Counter 4447) and Mikuma
was part of the covering force for the invasion convoy.
.P The invasion of the many islands that make up the Dutch East Indies went very
well for the Japanese. With the bulk of the main islands under Japanese control,
at the end of February, they turned their attention to the main administrative
centre; the island of Java (see Amphibious Counter 4439). The 7th CS provided
cover for the Western Force that was responsible for landing troops east and west
of Batavia, the capital, and Mikuma played an important part in the Battle of the
Sunda Strait on the night of the 28th February. This battle resulted in the
sinking of the Allied cruisers USS Houston and HMAS Perth (see Natori).
.P Mikuma`s next operation began on the 8th March. She was one of five heavy
cruisers that provided distant cover for the troop transports taking army units
to Iri and Sabang in northern Sumatra. She then remained in the region to cover
the operations to reinforce units in Burma and for the assault on the Andaman
Islands two weeks later (see Kashii).
.P Between the 1st and 2nd April Mikuma was part of Vice-Admiral Ozawa`s Malay
Force that sailed into the Bay of Bengal to attack Allied shipping there; this
raid succeeded in sinking around 100,000 tons of shipping (see Ryujo). Upon her
return from the Indian Ocean, Mikuma underwent a period of refit and exercises in
preparation for the most important of battles yet faced by the IJN.
.P After the stunning successes enjoyed by the Japanese armed forces in the first
six months of war, the high command suddenly found themselves unsure of what to
do next. As usual, the IJN and the Imperial Japanese Army (IJA) had different
priorities, but even within the IJN itself there was discord over what course of
action should be pursued. Lack of IJA co-operation ruled out any possibility of
landings in Australia or India, and this left two alternatives to be explored.
One was a territorial expansion in the southwest Pacific, involving the capture
of the numerous island chains east of Australia, which would have the effect of
disrupting the link between the US and Australia. This would make it more
difficult for the US to use the latter as a springboard from which to attack the
Japanese defensive perimeter. The second possibility was to attack in the Central
Pacific, expanding the perimeter eastwards and threatening Pearl Harbor itself.
This was the option favoured by Admiral Yamamoto, essentially because he figured
that this was the best way to bring the US Navy carriers to battle. The
fascinating story of how the final decision was reached is outside the scope of
this write-up, but the path chosen proved to be a dangerous mix of both options.
In pursuing both aims, and spreading resources too thinly, the runaway successes
enjoyed by the Japanese were to come to a crashing halt.
.P Yamamoto won his argument to pursue a Central Pacific strategy; the key to
which, was an invasion of Midway, a small island 1,300 miles west of Hawaii (See
Transport Counter 4449). This attack would, to Yamamoto`s thinking, compel
Admiral Nimitz to order his fleet from Pearl Harbor to try and stop the invasion;
a move that would result in their destruction. At the same time as this operation
- code-named MI - was underway, the IJN would also launch Operation AL, an attack
on the inhospitable, northern Pacific, Aleutian Islands, south-west of Alaska
(see ASW Counter 4427).
.P But Yamamoto won the argument at a price. Operations in the south-west Pacific
were to begin before the Midway operation, and crucially, the Japanese commander
had to release the two carriers of CarDiv 5, Shokaku and Zuikaku, to enable them
to assist the planned invasion of southern New Guinea and the initial IJN moves
into the Solomon Islands. During the ensuing battle in the Coral Sea (see Shoho)
Shokaku was badly damaged and Zuikaku lost much of her air group; as a result,
these two carriers were removed from the Midway order of battle with disastrous
consequences for the Japanese Empire.
.P The Operations to take Midway Island and the Aleutians involved almost every
ship in the IJN. As usual, the Japanese plan was hugely complex and involved a
great number of task forces. For Midway, these were split as follows: The First
Carrier Striking Force contained the fleet carriers Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu and Soryu
under Vice-Admiral Nagumo. These carriers, central to the entire Japanese plan,
were supported by the fast battleships Haruna and Kirishima; the heavy cruisers
Tone and Chikuma; and eleven destroyers led by the light cruiser Nagara.
Operating west of Nagumo was the Main Body, Yamamoto`s powerful force that
consisted of: Battleship Division 1, Yamato, Nagato and Mutsu; the carrier Hosho;
and eight destroyers led by the light cruiser Sendai.
.P Operating south of the two main forces was the Midway Invasion force, which
was split into a number of sub-groups. The Main Body, commanded by Vice-Admiral
Kondo, contained the battleships Kongo and Hiei; the heavy cruisers Atago,
Chokai, Myoko and Haguro; and seven destroyers, led by the light cruiser Yura.
This force also had a carrier presence provided by the light carrier Zuiho. The
Close Support Group, commanded by Vice-Admiral Kurita, contained the four heavy
cruisers of the 7th CS: Kumano, Mikuma, Mogami and Suzuya, escorted by two
destroyers. There was a Seaplane Tender Group and a Minesweeper Group, the former
consisting of Chitose and Kamikawa Maru whose purpose was to bring aircraft that
could quickly be operating from a seaplane base the Japanese would construct on
Midway. Last but not least was the Transport Group commanded by Rear-Admiral
Tanaka. Fifteen troop vessels carried the five thousand, army and navy troops
that were to land on Midway. They were closely escorted by ten destroyers that
were led by the light cruiser Jintsu. All the groups had their own tankers for
re-supply purposes.
.P The first sighting of the Japanese forces was on the morning of the 3rd June,
when long-range Catalina flying boats sighted the Midway Invasion Force. This
sighting - at extreme range - meant that the only response then available to the
Americans was to send nine B-17 Flying Fortress bombers from Midway. It was only
at around 1640hrs that the American bombers reached the Japanese ships. Bombing
from high-altitude, none of the bombs found their target and Tanaka continued his
eastward journey. A second attack was ordered later that evening and this time
four Catalina`s, all fitted with torpedoes, would be used. This second attack,
that took place in the early hours of the 4th, resulted in a hit on one of the
Japanese tankers, although she was able to continue her journey toward Midway.
.P A third attack would have headed their way, but by the early morning of the
4th June, the Americans had found the Kido Butai to the north. The B-17 bombers
that would have made the attack were instead diverted to attack Nagumo`s carriers
and no more effort would be wasted against the invasion force. From this point,
the Battle of Midway centred upon the epic duel between the four carriers of the
Kido Butai and the three US carriers together with the Midway based aircraft (see
Kaga).
.P Unfortunately for the Japanese, during the course of ten terrible minutes that
morning, three of their carriers were put out of action, courtesy of Dauntless
dive-bomber attacks from Yorktown and Enterprise. The fourth carrier was also hit
that afternoon; all would eventually sink, taking with them any hope that the
Japanese could win the battle, or indeed the war.
.P After being informed of the events taking place north-west of Midway Island,
Yammamoto's response was one of stunned disbelief. Eventually, he resolved to try
and recover the situation; first ordering the invasion force north-west in order
to stay out of range of Midway`s aircraft. He then ordered Kondo`s Main Body to
join with Nagumo in the hope of bringing the Americans to battle at night. The
7th CS meanwhile would make for Midway in order to bombard the island during the
night. Yammamoto also requested that Rear-Admiral Kakuta`s Second Mobile Striking
Force leave the Aleutians and head south with the carriers Ryujo and Junyo,
although this order was received too late for Kakuta to act in time.
.P Ultimately, Yammamoto knew the game was effectively up and he countermanded
his own orders later that evening, ordering all forces to rendezvous with the
main body ahead of withdrawal back to Japan. However, by the time 7th CS received
the order to turn around, they were not far from Midway and it was to be touch
and go as to whether they would be clear of enemy aircraft range come daylight.
For two of the cruisers, the answer to this question was to come quicker than
they expected. As Kurita's four ships sailed away from Midway line astern at high
speed, a submarine was spotted in the distance. All four ships were ordered to
turn from north to north-west, but the execution of the manoeuvre was less than
ideal; each cruiser taking a different bearing. The result was that Mikuma and
Mogami collided with each other. Mikuma was not badly damaged with the exception
that one of her fuel storage tanks was holed, as a result of which she left a
thick trail of oil behind her. Mogami was more seriously damaged, a section of
her bow being almost sheared off, meaning that her speed was dramatically
reduced. Suzuya and Kumano were ordered to continue sailing away from the danger
area as quickly as possible while Mikuma escorted Mogami at much reduced speed.
.P Ultimately, most Japanese forces met up with Yammamoto's Main Body and the
retreat back to Japan would eventually be ordered on the 7th. But for the two
damaged cruisers, things would not be so straightforward. They were found by the
Americans in the early hours of the 5th June and were attacked a number of times
that day by aircraft from Midway. However, their luck held out and both ships
continued to sail away from Midway. Their good fortune could not continue for
ever, and having been found once more on the morning of the 6th, the cruisers
were attacked by aircraft launched by Enterprise and Hornet that afternoon. Five
bombs dropped by Dauntless dive-bombers from Enterprise hit Mikuma in quick
succession, causing fires to breakout throughout the ship. The biggest problem
was the fire that had taken hold near her torpedoes, and when these ignited,
Mikuma was enveloped in a gigantic fireball that completely destroyed her aft
superstructure. It was soon obvious that she could not be saved and she sank with
the loss of over 700 officers and men. Mogami had been further damaged during the
attack, being hit numerous times and losing over 80 of her crew, but she had
previously jettisoned her stock of torpedoes and this action no doubt saved her
from the fate that befell her sister ship. Mogami eventually limped back to Truk.
Operation MI had been an unmitigated disaster for the IJN and henceforth, the
initiative would remain with the US Navy for the remainder of the war.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1641
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/20/2010 7:50:14 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
Here we go:

"After the success of
the initial landings in Malaya, a second wave was launched on the 13th December
that would being the remainder of Yamashita`s 25th Army to Malaya. Mikuma once
more provided support for this operation.



".P After being informed of the events taking place north-west of Midway Island,
Yammamoto's response was one of stunned disbelief."

"Yammamoto also requested that Rear-Admiral Kakuta`s Second Mobile Striking
Force leave the Aleutians and head south with the carriers Ryujo and Junyo,
although this order was received too late for Kakuta to act in time.
.P Ultimately, Yammamoto knew the game was effectively up and he countermanded
his own orders later that evening, ordering all forces to rendezvous with the
main body ahead of withdrawal back to Japan. "

Yamamoto.



Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto.

"P Ultimately, most Japanese forces met up with Yammamoto's Main Body and the
retreat back to Japan would eventually be ordered on the 7th.

same


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1642
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/20/2010 9:19:42 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

Here we go:

"After the success of
the initial landings in Malaya, a second wave was launched on the 13th December
that would being the remainder of Yamashita`s 25th Army to Malaya. Mikuma once
more provided support for this operation.



".P After being informed of the events taking place north-west of Midway Island,
Yammamoto's response was one of stunned disbelief."

"Yammamoto also requested that Rear-Admiral Kakuta`s Second Mobile Striking
Force leave the Aleutians and head south with the carriers Ryujo and Junyo,
although this order was received too late for Kakuta to act in time.
.P Ultimately, Yammamoto knew the game was effectively up and he countermanded
his own orders later that evening, ordering all forces to rendezvous with the
main body ahead of withdrawal back to Japan. "

Yamamoto.



Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto.

"P Ultimately, most Japanese forces met up with Yammamoto's Main Body and the
retreat back to Japan would eventually be ordered on the 7th.

same


Warspite1

Cheers Josh - amendments made. Why on earth did I suddenly start calling him Yammamoto ?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 1643
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/20/2010 10:14:28 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
Thanks, you did write it correct at first, then you changed it.
Well it's darn easy to write it wrong without ever noticing it, but everyone else reading it *would* notice it.

Say, you also changed the bad sentence I mentioned at the top? Because I don't have a clue what it means.... could be me ofcourse.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1644
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/20/2010 10:40:35 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

Thanks, you did write it correct at first, then you changed it.
Well it's darn easy to write it wrong without ever noticing it, but everyone else reading it *would* notice it.

Say, you also changed the bad sentence I mentioned at the top? Because I don't have a clue what it means.... could be me ofcourse.

Warspite1

I did - it should be:

"After the success of the initial landings in Malaya, a second wave of troops was landed on the
13th December; this operation brought the remainder of Yamashita`s 25th Army to the colony,
and Mikuma provided cover for the troop convoy."


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 1645
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/21/2010 1:21:34 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

Thanks, you did write it correct at first, then you changed it.
Well it's darn easy to write it wrong without ever noticing it, but everyone else reading it *would* notice it.

Say, you also changed the bad sentence I mentioned at the top? Because I don't have a clue what it means.... could be me ofcourse.

Warspite1

I did - it should be:

"After the success of the initial landings in Malaya, a second wave of troops was landed on the
13th December; this operation brought the remainder of Yamashita`s 25th Army to the colony,
and Mikuma provided cover for the troop convoy."


December 13th

or

13th of December

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1646
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/21/2010 1:17:47 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Almost finished Midway!!

[4332 Kaga - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 127,400 hp
.B Top Speed: 28 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 8-inch (203mm), 16 x 5-inch (127mm) guns
.B Aircraft: 90 (Operational Maximum 66)
.B Displacement (full load): 43,650 tons
.B Thickest armour: 11-inch (belt)
.P The carrier Kaga began life as a battleship, having been designed as such
for the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) at the end of the First World War. She was
to have been the name ship in a class of two battleships laid down in 1920.
.P Construction work was halted on both ships in February 1922 as a result of the
signing of the Washington Naval Treaty which limited capital ship construction.
That would have been the end for Kaga, but she received a reprieve from an
unexpected source. Under one of the provisions of the Treaty, the IJN were
allowed to convert two capital ships into aircraft carriers. For this they chose
to convert the battlecruisers Akagi and Amagi, then under construction. But when,
in 1923, Amagi was destroyed by an earthquake, Kaga was chosen to replace her.
.P Kaga was finally completed as an aircraft carrier only in March 1928 and was
then reconstructed in the mid-thirties. The technical details above are as at the
time of Pearl Harbor.
.P Her modernisation saw an additional thirty-four feet added to her length as
well as anti-torpedo bulges. An island structure was also added and placed on her
starboard side.
.P As a result of her modernisation, Kaga`s aircraft carrying capacity was
initially increased to ninety aircraft, although increases in aircraft size and
practical problems with operating that many aircraft ultimately limited Kaga to a
complement of less than seventy. She was fitted with a full length flight deck
and her two extended hangars were served by three lifts. As standard for all
Japanese carriers in World War II, there was no catapult to assist aircraft take-
off, but nine arrester wires were fitted to provide the necessary stopping power
when landing her aircraft.
.P Protection was minimal. Kaga benefitted from eleven-inch belt armour, courtesy
of her original battleship design, but her horizontal armour was limited to just
a thin 1.5-inch armoured deck, which provided little protection for her hangars,
magazines or her aviation fuel stores.
.P Defensive weaponry consisted of ten eight-inch guns, but these were fitted in
case-mates, fitted aft and low down, so restricting their use in poor weather.
Her anti-aircraft (AA) armament consisted of eight, twin 5-inch AA guns and
fifteen, twin 25mm close-range weapons.
.P Kaga proved a valuable addition to the carrier fleet, capable of operating a
large air group, but like all Japanese carriers she was vulnerable to attack from
either enemy aircraft or plunging shell fire.
.P Kaga was named after a former Japanese province.
.P Kaga was part of the 1st Carrier Division (CarDiv) within Vice-Admiral
Nagumo`s 1st Air Fleet that carried out the attack on Pearl Harbor in December
1941 (See Akagi). Following the Hawaiian Operation, Kaga and the other ships of
the 1st Air Fleet (Kido Butai) were sent to support the invasion of the islands
of New Britain and New Ireland in the Bismarck Archipelago (see Transport Counter
4446). This operation went without problem and she then sailed for Truk, where
she arrived on the 25th January. At the end of the month the 1st Air Fleet were
ordered to sea in response to American carrier raids against the Marshall and the
Gilbert Islands (see Katori). No engagement resulted from this sortie however.
.P After returning to Palau, Kaga ran aground, damaging her hull on a reef. She
was able to continue operations after temporary repairs however, and when the 1st
Air Fleet were tasked with launching an air raid on the northern Australian port
of Darwin between the 15th and 19th February, Kaga took part in the attack (see
Soryu).
.P Then, with barely time for replenishment, Kaga was sent south of Java at the
end of February as part of the Japanese invasion of that island. The 1st Air
Fleet were tasked with stopping Allied shipping from fleeing to Australia or
India from Java, and to stop any reinforcement of the island (see Chikuma). Upon
completion of this operation Nagumo`s hard pressed force were ordered to the
Indian Ocean to attack the British Eastern Fleet in Ceylon. However, Kaga was not
to take part in this raid, and instead she was sent for repairs to the damage
inflicted against the reef previously. After completion of the repair work, Kaga
was once more re-united with Akagi within the 1st CarDiv for their next
operation.
.P On the 27th May 1942, co-incidentally the anniversary of the IJN`s great
victory over the Russian Fleet at Tsushima, the four carriers of the Kido Butai
left their anchorage at Hashirajima for the last time. They were about to take
part in MI, an operation designed to bring the US Navy - and in particular the
enemy carriers missed during the attack on Pearl Harbor - to battle. The outlying
island of Midway, at the end of the Hawaiian Island chain and 1,300 miles from
Honolulu, would be invaded and this action, so it was thought, would bring the US
Navy to sea. For a detailed background to the wider operation and the order of
battle please see Mikuma; this write-up will deal purely with the Kido Butai and
their destruction on the 4th June at the hands of three American carriers.
.P Nagumo's First Carrier Striking Force contained the following fleet carriers
and their air groups: Akagi, sixty aircraft; Kaga, seventy-three; Hiryu, fifty-
seven; and Soryu; also fifty-seven. Included within these numbers were aircraft
from the 6th Air Group that were planned to operate from Midway once the island
was taken. In the meantime they were available to Nagumo for use in the MI
operation. These carriers, central to the entire Japanese plan, were supported by
the fast battleships Haruna and Kirishima; the heavy cruisers Tone and Chikuma;
and eleven destroyers led by the light cruiser Nagara. Five tankers were on hand
to provide the necessary fuel for the journey.
.P The plan put together by Admiral Yamamoto, was typical of IJN plans during the
Second World War; the plan was complex, rigid and did not allow for what the
enemy may do. Yamamoto believed he would achieve surprise in attacking Midway and
that as a result, Nagumo would be able to position his Kido Butai, undetected,
north-west of the island. From there he would launch the air strikes that would
neutralise the island's defences, allowing an invasion to take place. Only then
would the American Fleet turn up; and be promptly dispatched to the bottom of the
Pacific; simple....
.P Armed with these orders, Nagumo`s Kido Butai arrived at its allotted place in
the early hours of the 4th June. The First Wave of one hundred and eight aircraft
took off from the four carriers at 0430hrs and proceeded toward Midway, led by
Lt Tomonaga. At the same time, to guard against air attack launched from the
island, eleven Zeros were launched to form the Combat Air Patrol (CAP) over the
carrier force. The Japanese launched a reconnaissance flight of seven aircraft,
one each coming from Kaga and Hiryu and the remainder from the battleships and
cruisers. However, the reconnaissance mission was very poorly planned and
executed. As well as having far too few aircraft given the area to be searched,
three of these - from the cruisers Tone and Chikuma - were late taking off.
Meanwhile, Nagumo's reserve aircraft were to be held back in reserve and the
Kates armed with torpedoes in order to deal with any surface threat should it
materialise.
.P The Americans on Midway had search plans of their own and an hour after
Tomonaga`s First Wave was launched, a long-range Catalina found Nagumo's carrier
force. Unlike at Pearl Harbor, Tomonaga would find few if any, American aircraft
on the ground this day; on hearing the news of the sighting, nearly all of
Midway's aircraft were soon heading for Nagumo's carriers. When the First Wave
finished their work over Midway and were returning to their carriers, Tomonaga
sent a message back to Nagumo at 0700hrs confirming that a second strike would be
required. At around the same time that this message was being received by Nagumo,
the first of the enemy aircraft from Midway began to arrive over the Kido Butai.
.P The first of these was a force of torpedo bombers, six brand new Grumman TBF's
making its combat debut, and four B-26 Marauder medium bombers. The former
attacked Hiryu and the latter headed for Akagi. The CAP fighters made short work
of the attackers and only one Avenger and two Marauders made it back to Midway
having hit nothing.
.P It would be around 0800hrs before the next attack from Midway came along, but
that did not mean that Nagumo had time to spare to consider his next move. The
sudden arrival of the American aircraft from Midway, along with Tomonaga`s
message, convinced Nagumo that he should order his reserve aircraft to be fitted
with bombs rather than torpedoes, and this order was given at around 0715hrs. But
then, at 0740hrs, Nagumo finally heard from one of his search planes; an American
surface force had been located north-east of Midway. Deeply troubled by the news,
Nagumo ordered the re-arming to be reversed, although it would be another forty
minutes before it was confirmed that a carrier was among the US ships.
.P As Tomonaga`s First Wave began to reach their carriers, so the next wave of
attacks from Midway began; Tomonaga would have to circle while these battles were
concluded. The first attack came from sixteen Dauntless dive-bombers flown by an
inexperienced Marine unit led by Major Henderson. Their target was Hiryu, but
despite half the bomber force getting through to the carrier, no hits were
registered. No sooner had the surviving Marines left the scene than the next
attack began; a high-level attack by twelve B-17s led by Lt-Col Sweeney. Their
bombs were dropped from high altitude and although both carriers of CarDiv 2 were
surrounded by huge plumes of spray, neither was actually hit. As with the
previous high level attack, no enemy aircraft were shot down by the Zeros or the
largely ineffective Japanese AA guns. The third and final Midway based attack
followed hot on the heals of the B-17`s and came via another Marine unit. This
contained eleven Vindicator aircraft led by Major Norris and their target was
Haruna, which managed to succesfully avoid damage through skilful evasive moves
by her commander, Rear-Admiral Takama.
.P With the last of the US aircraft departed from the scene, Nagumo could at last
order his First Wave to land and shortly after 0830hrs, Tomonaga`s strike force
began landing on their carriers. At the same time, Nagumo ordered a course north-
east in order to close the gap on the US ships. All four carriers completed the
recovery of their aircraft by 0910hrs and they were swiftly removed from the
flight-deck and taken to the hangars below. However, having achieved this
milestone, the next attack on the Kido Butai began just ten minutes later.
.P This attack, the first that morning from carrier borne aircraft, was led by
Lt-Cdr Waldron from the carrier Hornet. Unlike his fellow squadron commanders,
Waldron correctly guessed where he was likely to find the Japanese fleet and his
was to be the only squadron from Hornet to engage the Kido Butai. He had fifteen old
Devastator torpedo bombers with which to attack while the Japanese had over
twenty CAP fighters available to pounce on them. All but one American aircraft
was blown out of the sky before they had a chance to drop their torpedoes, and
the lone torpedo that was dropped was easily evaded by the target, Soryu.
.P The various American attacks that had been mounted throughout the morning had
been uncoordinated and devoid of fighter cover. Importantly though, the American
sacrifices had not been in vain. The incessant attacks had meant that Nagumo did
not have the opportunity to launch aircraft against the known position of the US
carrier found earlier. But what was far worse for the fortunes of the Kido Butai
was that the Americans were about to be hit with the first coordinated attack of
the morning; an attack that would devastate Nagumo`s once proud carrier force.
.P Shortly after 1000hrs there were three formations from the carrier Yorktown
on their way to attack the Kido Butai: VF-3, consisting of six fighters led by
Lt-Cdr Thach; the torpedo bombers of VT-3, led by Lt-Cdr Massey and dive-bombers
of VB-3 led by Lt-Cdr Leslie. By chance, at the same time, a dive-bomber group
from Enterprise, under the command of Lt-Cdr McClusky, also arrived from another
direction. The latter were VB-6 and VS-6, led by Lt Best and Lt Gallaher
respectively. By now, thanks to the events of that morning, Nagumo`s ships were
no longer in their box formation, but were instead roughly line abreast, with
Soryu, Hiryu, Akagi and Kaga respectively in a rough north-east / south-west
line.
.P First to begin their attack was the Devastator torpedo bombers of VT-3 which
targeted the northern most of the carriers, Soryu. This time they had Wildcat
fighter support. During the approach, Massey`s aircraft switched target to the
Hiryu, which was closer, but the end result was no different to that of the
earlier Devastator attacks. Zeros soon pounced on Massey`s aircraft, shooting
down all but five; of these, just two were able to get back home but no hits on
Hiryu were recorded.
.P Meanwhile, with the CAP engaged with the US fighters and the torpedo bombers,
the remaining three units took the opportunity of positioning themselves for
their own attacks almost unnoticed. Leslie's Dauntless dive-bombers were some way
behind Massey and they continued on to attack Soryu as Massey headed for Hiryu.
To the south-west, Best and Gallaher lined up their Dauntlesses to attack Kaga.
It was 1024hrs. Kaga spotted her attackers late, but immediately put her AA
weaponry into effect; downing one Dauntless. It would not save her. Kaga was hit
in quick succession by four bombs: the first aft, followed by a hit on the
forward hangar, the third scored a direct hit on her bridge and lastly one fell
amidships. With this much damage, and her senior officers almost all killed, it
was soon readily apparent that there was no hope of saving the ship; however her
crew courageously fought the blaze for many hours.
.P Soryu was the next victim five minutes later, and she too belatedly put up
desperate AA fire, all to no avail; three hits were taken and fires rapidly
spread in the packed hangars below. No doubt as a consequence of her lack of
armour protection, Soryu was the worst of the three carriers affected, one bomb
exploding deep within her. Fires raged through the carrier, and there was soon no
hope of saving her. The final victim was Nagumo`s flagship. Akagi, which was
attacked by just three aircraft and was hit just once. Unfortunately for her, the
bomb tore through her flight deck near her middle lift and exploded in the hangar
below. Fires began to burn that her damage control parties could not get to grips
with and they increased in intensity to the point of no return. All three ships
would ultimately be scuttled.
.P However, while the crews of the three carriers were forlornly trying to save
their doomed ships, the IJN still had one carrier intact. Rear-Admiral Yamaguchi
was determined to close the US Navy carrier or carriers (even at this stage of
the battle they were unsure how many carriers the enemy had) and extract revenge
for what had just happened. He ordered the launch of twenty-four aircraft, a mix
of dive-bombers and fighters led by Lt Kobayashi, and they took off from the sole
remaining flight deck available to the Japanese at 1100hrs. Twenty Wildcat
fighters flying CAP for Yorktown were waiting for them, together with a heavy AA
screen of cruisers and destroyers that surrounded the carrier. A terrible toll
was exacted on the dive-bombers and escorting Zeros, but despite this, a number
of aircraft emerged unscathed and their pilots continued relentlessly toward
Yorktown. The first bomb hit the carrier near her aft lift, a second caught her
amidships and a third hit her forward lift. Six Japanese aircraft, five Vals and
one Zero, returned to Hiryu quite understandably thinking they had put Yorktown
out of action; they were wrong. The damage control skills of the US Navy were far
in advance of those of the IJN, and within a short space of time Yorktown had her
fires under control and ultimately extinguished.
.P While this had been taking place, Nagumo, who had transferred his flag to
Nagara, had decided upon attacking the US forces at night using his battleships,
cruisers and destroyers. He resolved to close the gap to the Americans, who he
thought, would be heading toward his force with the intention of finishing them
off.
.P Meanwhile, at 1330hrs, Hiryu had launched a second wave of aircraft, this time
under the command of Tomonaga who would be on a one way mission as damage to his
aircraft would not allow a return trip. For this attack, just sixteen aircraft
were available; ten torpedo bombers and six fighters. Tomonaga believed that a
second carrier had been found as there was no evidence of damage to their new
found target. However, the object of the attack was indeed the patched up
Yorktown. For the loss of eight attacking aircraft, the Japanese achieved two
torpedo hits on the Yorktown and these caused serious flooding and a loss of
power. Yorktown would eventually succumb to submarine I-168 the following morning
(see submarine Counter 4453).
.P However, Hiryu`s operational life would only last until mid-afternoon. Having
just recovered her surviving aircraft from the second attack and put in place the
largest CAP component she could, the men aboard Hiryu began preparations for a
third strike; it was never to be launched.
.P After search planes had located Hiryu once more earlier that afternoon, forty
Dauntlesses from Enterprise and Hornet were dispatched by the Americans without
fighter cover. The attack proved every bit as devastating as the earlier dive-
bomber attacks on the Kido Butai. Hiryu was hit forward by no less than four
bombs and was effectively out of action as a carrier immediately. She burned
through the night and did not eventually sink until after 0900hrs the following
morning after her planned scuttling had been botched.
.P The remaining ships of Nagumo`s force were unscathed in the attack; only
Nagumo's carriers were vulnerable this day. That evening Nagumo was ordered to
head west to rendezvous with Yamamoto`s Main Body and eventual withdrawal back to
Japan. In the waters off Midway Island Kido Butai had left behind four fleet
carriers, 2,181 officers and men and 110 aircrew. Kaga alone had lost 811 and 21
of these respectively. Yamamoto's dream of dispatching Nimitz`s carriers to the
bottom of the Pacific had turned into a nightmare. Never again would the Japanese
hold the initiative in the Pacific War; Japan's long road to total ruin began in
earnest on the 4th June 1942.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1647
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/21/2010 8:09:53 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
Just a quick glance, busy playing Advanced Tactics

".P The plan put together by Admiral Yamamoto, was typical of IJN plans during the
Second World War; the plan was complex, rigid and did not allow for what the
enemy [r]may[/r] do
."

Might do ?

Also noticed that now you use both ` and ' together? Nagumo's carriers..., Japan's long road..., Hiryu`s operational life...

"After search planes had located Hiryu once more earlier that afternoon, forty
Dauntlesses from Enterprise "

Fourty, right? /edit, nope: “Four” loses its U when it changes to “forty.”

" But what was far worse for the fortunes of the Kido Butai
was that the Americans were about to be hit with the first coordinated attack of
the morning; an attack that would devastate Nagumo`s once proud carrier force"

"To be hit", or "to hit"?

"P Then, with barely time for replenishment, Kaga was sent south of Java at the
end of February as part of the Japanese invasion of that island. The 1st Air
Fleet were tasked with stopping Allied shipping from fleeing to Australia or
India from Java, and to stop any reinforcement of the island (see Chikuma). Upon
completion of this operation Nagumo`s hard pressed force were ordered to the
Indian Ocean to attack the British Eastern Fleet in Ceylon. However, Kaga was not
to take part in this raid, and instead she was sent for repairs to the damage
inflicted against the reef previously
. After completion of the repair work, Kaga
was once more re-united with Akagi within the 1st CarDiv for their next
operation. "

They wanted to repair the reef? repairs to the damage inflicted *by* the reef... right?

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1648
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/22/2010 9:00:44 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

Just a quick glance, busy playing Advanced Tactics

".P The plan put together by Admiral Yamamoto, was typical of IJN plans during the
Second World War; the plan was complex, rigid and did not allow for what the
enemy [r]may[/r] do
."

Might do ?

Also noticed that now you use both ` and ' together? Nagumo's carriers..., Japan's long road..., Hiryu`s operational life...

"After search planes had located Hiryu once more earlier that afternoon, forty
Dauntlesses from Enterprise "

Fourty, right? /edit, nope: “Four” loses its U when it changes to “forty.”

" But what was far worse for the fortunes of the Kido Butai
was that the Americans were about to be hit with the first coordinated attack of
the morning; an attack that would devastate Nagumo`s once proud carrier force"

"To be hit", or "to hit"?

"P Then, with barely time for replenishment, Kaga was sent south of Java at the
end of February as part of the Japanese invasion of that island. The 1st Air
Fleet were tasked with stopping Allied shipping from fleeing to Australia or
India from Java, and to stop any reinforcement of the island (see Chikuma). Upon
completion of this operation Nagumo`s hard pressed force were ordered to the
Indian Ocean to attack the British Eastern Fleet in Ceylon. However, Kaga was not
to take part in this raid, and instead she was sent for repairs to the damage
inflicted against the reef previously
. After completion of the repair work, Kaga
was once more re-united with Akagi within the 1st CarDiv for their next
operation. "

They wanted to repair the reef? repairs to the damage inflicted *by* the reef... right?

Warspite1

Josh, remind me again, which one of us is English and which Dutch?

You are right on all counts as usual - I have made the amendments. The ` and ' is something that I am correcting as and when able so for some of these there will be a mixture, at least temporarily.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 1649
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/22/2010 9:28:20 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
LOL yeah I'm the wooden shoes wearing guy.

/off topic, saw this documentary on BBC Entertainment called the "Coast" .... stunningly beautiful, breathtaking landcapes. Last episode was in the Outer Hebrides, and on some of these islands people still live.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1650
Page:   <<   < prev  53 54 [55] 56 57   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land Page: <<   < prev  53 54 [55] 56 57   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.891