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RE: Just for fun - 8/15/2010 11:41:42 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Cheers Froonp - that's appreciated

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1801
RE: Just for fun - 8/16/2010 4:08:39 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I need some assistance with the four Swedish vessels of the Aran-class and Oscar II:

Informations from the SiF kit :

Äran
Laid Down : ?
Launch : 19/05/1906
Completed : ?
Fate : stricken 1947
Standard Displ. (tons) : 3650
Length (m) : 87,5
Speed (kts) : 17
Armour (in) Belt Max : 7
Armour (in) Belt Min : 7
Armour (in) Turret Max : 7.5
Armour (in) Turret Min : 5
Crew : 285
2 x 8.3" (211 mm) guns
8 x 6" (152 mm) guns
14 x 57 mm light AA guns
2 x 40 mm light AA guns
4 x 8 mm light AA guns
2 x 18 mm torpedo tubes
Range (nm) : 2000 at 10 knots
Version shown after 1939 modernisation. Barrack ship from 1942.

Oscar II
Laid Down : ?
Launch : 07/06/1905
Completed : ?
Fate : stricken 1950
Standard Displ. (tons) : 3800
Length (m) : 95,6
Speed (kts) : 17,8
Armour (in) Belt Max : 6
Armour (in) Belt Min : 4
Armour (in) Turret Max : 7.5
Armour (in) Turret Min : 5
Crew : 326
2 x 8.3" (211 mm) guns
8 x 6" (152 mm) guns
10 x 57 mm light AA guns
2 x 18 mm torpedo tubes
Range (nm) : 2950 at 10 knots
Version shown at start of 1936.



Äran

Oscar II

Here are your dates the ships were Laid down, Launched, Completed, and Sold or Broken Up.

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 8/17/2010 1:46:09 PM >


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1802
RE: Just for fun - 8/18/2010 1:51:39 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

2/5

[5089 Baleares - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 90,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 33 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 8-inch (203mm), 8 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 13,070 tons
.B Thickest armour: 2-inches (belt)
.P The Canarias-class consisted of two heavy cruisers built for the Spanish
navy during the early thirties. Like the earlier Alfonso-class, they were
designed by the British and were based on an existing class of Royal Navy
cruiser; in this case the County-class.
.P The two Spanish vessels featured a number of improvements and modifications,
including a slimmer, longer hull than their British counterparts. Despite these
changes, the hull was unmistakably that of a Kent-class cruiser, but where there
was a noticable difference was in the superstructure.
.P A change in the arrangement of the boilers allowed for a reduction in funnels
from three to two, although the two funnels were then trunked into one large
stack. Visually, the bridge was also very different to the British version, and
gave the Canarias' an unusual, almost unfinished look.
.P The main armament consisted of eight 8-inch guns fitted in four twin turrets,
although thanks to the Civil War, Baleares first appeared minus her Y turret;
this was fitted nine months before her sinking. Secondary armament as designed
comprised eight single 4.7-inch guns and a mix of 40mm and 12.5mm light anti-
aircraft (AA) guns, although again, thanks to the raging Civil War, the actual
equipment fitted differed to the original specification and indeed changed over
time. The armament package was completed by four triple torpedo tubes, but a
catapult and aircraft handling capability was never fitted.
.P Armour defence was provided by a belt of 2-inches with an extra 2-inches of
thickness to cover the magazine spaces. Horizontal defence was limited to an
armour deck of 1.5-inches and an additional 2-inches of protection for the
magazines.
.P The ships were faster than the British versions thanks to the different hull
design and slightly more powerful machinery. These features allowed the ships to
retain bulges for anti-torpedo defence at no cost in speed.
.P The ships were named after the two large Spanish owned island chains; the
Canary Islands in the Atlantic and the Balearic Islands in the Mediterranean.
.P Baleares was still fitting out in Ferrol when the Spanish Civil War began in
July 1936. She was completed, minus her Y turret and with a hastily put together
secondary armament package, in December of that year. She fought with the
Nationalist forces during the war.
.P Baleares was not to enjoy a successful existence. After completion, she was
largely unsuccessful in waging war against Republican convoys and was placed back
in the dockyard in June 1937 to have her missing turret fitted.
.P Baleares was badly damaged during the Battle of Cape Cherchell in September
1937, when she came across two Republican light cruisers (see Méndez Núñez).
.P The Battle of Cape Palos was fought on the night of the 5th and 6th of March
1938, and was the largest naval battle of the Spanish Civil War. The two sisters
Canarias and Baleares were sailing in company with Almirante Cervera and three
destroyers, providing distant escort for a convoy that was bringing supplies from
Italy to Spain. The Nationalist cruisers lost their destroyer escort during the
evening of the 5th as they returned to base to refuel; this would cost the
Baleares dearly.
.P Just after midnight on the 6th, when off the coast of Spain, near Cartagena,
they stumbled across a Republican naval force that consisted of the light
cruisers Libertad and Méndez Núñez and five destroyers. The Republican destroyers
were able to fire a torpedo salvo but without effect. Over the next two hours the
two fleets remained apart and when they came together again at around 0200hrs,
the two heavy cruisers were able to bring their heavier ordnance to bear first.
However, in doing so, they made their positions plainly visible to the enemy
ships. While the two cruiser forces exchanged fire, three of the destroyers,
Barcaiztegui, Lepanto and Almirante Antequera were able to get into position to
fire their torpedoes at the unsuspecting Baleares.
.P A number of torpedoes found their target, exploding in her forward magazine,
causing catastrophic damage to the whole forward half of the ship. With the
protection of the convoy uppermost in mind, the two remaining Nationalist
cruisers departed the scene rapidly. Surprisingly, the Republican vessels did not
pursue them.
.P Baleares was quickly, and uncontrollably ablaze, and alerted by the burning
vessel, two Royal Navy destroyers came to the aid of the survivors. Even so,
almost 800 of her crew perished with her.
.P As she was sunk during the Spanish Civil War, the Baleares counter is only
available if playing with Days of Decision.



Since there were so many "Royal" navies you might want to mention that they were "British Royal Navy" destroyers.

Just FYI: They were HMS Boreas and HMS Kempenfelt.

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1803
RE: Just for fun - 8/18/2010 3:01:14 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

2/5

[5089 Baleares - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 90,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 33 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 8-inch (203mm), 8 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 13,070 tons
.B Thickest armour: 2-inches (belt)
.P The Canarias-class consisted of two heavy cruisers built for the Spanish
navy during the early thirties. Like the earlier Alfonso-class, they were
designed by the British and were based on an existing class of Royal Navy
cruiser; in this case the County-class.
.P The two Spanish vessels featured a number of improvements and modifications,
including a slimmer, longer hull than their British counterparts. Despite these
changes, the hull was unmistakably that of a Kent-class cruiser, but where there
was a noticable difference was in the superstructure.
.P A change in the arrangement of the boilers allowed for a reduction in funnels
from three to two, although the two funnels were then trunked into one large
stack. Visually, the bridge was also very different to the British version, and
gave the Canarias' an unusual, almost unfinished look.
.P The main armament consisted of eight 8-inch guns fitted in four twin turrets,
although thanks to the Civil War, Baleares first appeared minus her Y turret;
this was fitted nine months before her sinking. Secondary armament as designed
comprised eight single 4.7-inch guns and a mix of 40mm and 12.5mm light anti-
aircraft (AA) guns, although again, thanks to the raging Civil War, the actual
equipment fitted differed to the original specification and indeed changed over
time. The armament package was completed by four triple torpedo tubes, but a
catapult and aircraft handling capability was never fitted.
.P Armour defence was provided by a belt of 2-inches with an extra 2-inches of
thickness to cover the magazine spaces. Horizontal defence was limited to an
armour deck of 1.5-inches and an additional 2-inches of protection for the
magazines.
.P The ships were faster than the British versions thanks to the different hull
design and slightly more powerful machinery. These features allowed the ships to
retain bulges for anti-torpedo defence at no cost in speed.
.P The ships were named after the two large Spanish owned island chains; the
Canary Islands in the Atlantic and the Balearic Islands in the Mediterranean.
.P Baleares was still fitting out in Ferrol when the Spanish Civil War began in
July 1936. She was completed, minus her Y turret and with a hastily put together
secondary armament package, in December of that year. She fought with the
Nationalist forces during the war.
.P Baleares was not to enjoy a successful existence. After completion, she was
largely unsuccessful in waging war against Republican convoys and was placed back
in the dockyard in June 1937 to have her missing turret fitted.
.P Baleares was badly damaged during the Battle of Cape Cherchell in September
1937, when she came across two Republican light cruisers (see Méndez Núñez).
.P The Battle of Cape Palos was fought on the night of the 5th and 6th of March
1938, and was the largest naval battle of the Spanish Civil War. The two sisters
Canarias and Baleares were sailing in company with Almirante Cervera and three
destroyers, providing distant escort for a convoy that was bringing supplies from
Italy to Spain. The Nationalist cruisers lost their destroyer escort during the
evening of the 5th as they returned to base to refuel; this would cost the
Baleares dearly.
.P Just after midnight on the 6th, when off the coast of Spain, near Cartagena,
they stumbled across a Republican naval force that consisted of the light
cruisers Libertad and Méndez Núñez and five destroyers. The Republican destroyers
were able to fire a torpedo salvo but without effect. Over the next two hours the
two fleets remained apart and when they came together again at around 0200hrs,
the two heavy cruisers were able to bring their heavier ordnance to bear first.
However, in doing so, they made their positions plainly visible to the enemy
ships. While the two cruiser forces exchanged fire, three of the destroyers,
Barcaiztegui, Lepanto and Almirante Antequera were able to get into position to
fire their torpedoes at the unsuspecting Baleares.
.P A number of torpedoes found their target, exploding in her forward magazine,
causing catastrophic damage to the whole forward half of the ship. With the
protection of the convoy uppermost in mind, the two remaining Nationalist
cruisers departed the scene rapidly. Surprisingly, the Republican vessels did not
pursue them.
.P Baleares was quickly, and uncontrollably ablaze, and alerted by the burning
vessel, two Royal Navy destroyers came to the aid of the survivors. Even so,
almost 800 of her crew perished with her.
.P As she was sunk during the Spanish Civil War, the Baleares counter is only
available if playing with Days of Decision.



Since there were so many "Royal" navies you might want to mention that they were "British Royal Navy" destroyers.

Just FYI: They were HMS Boreas and HMS Kempenfelt.

Warspite1

No - there's only ONE Royal Navy

It's a fair point though - I'll amend, thanks.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1804
RE: Just for fun - 8/20/2010 1:29:27 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Spanish navy done (except the TRS)

Please see 5 posts - one for each class of ship.

Re the TRS - if anybody has any stories for the two Nationalist TRS I would be grateful (I will use SS Cantabria for the Republican TRS).

1/5

[5087 España - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 15,500 hp
.B Top Speed: 19.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 12-inch (305mm), 20 x 4-inch (102mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 15,450 tons
.B Thickest armour: 8-inches (belt)
.P The Españas were a class of three battleships constructed for the Spanish
navy between 1909 and 1921. They would prove to be the smallest of all the
dreadnought battleships built for any navy.
.P The ships were built in Spain with assistance from Britain; assistance that
was obviously in short supply between the years 1914-1918. The name ship, España,
was completed in 1913 and Alfonso XIII was completed in 1915. However, the effect
of the First World War on the ability of Spain to source resources meant that
completion of Jaime I was delayed until 1921.
.P Although the Españas were small ships for their type, their armament was
respectable when compared with their contemporaries; consisting of a 12-inch main
armament, with eight guns fitted in four twin turrets and twenty 4-inch guns in
casemates for their secondary armament.
.P However, two areas where their small size told was in their relative lack of
speed - less than 20 knots - and their poor range, making them little more than
coastal defence battleships.
.P Another compromise was their lack of armour protection. The belt was a maximum
8-inches thick and the armour deck just 1.5-inches; both lighter than
contemporary vessels.
.P España was named after the country she served, Alfonso XIII was named after
the then current monarch, while Jaime I was named after a 13th Century King of
Aragon.
.P España was originally named Alfonso XIII, but she was re-named in 1931 after
King Alfonso XIII fled Spain that year in response to the declaration of the
Second Spanish Republic. The original España had been lost after running aground
in 1923, after which she was wrecked by gales before she could be salvaged.
.P By the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War in July 1936, España was laid up in
the naval base at El Ferrol and it was here that a strange naval battle took
place on the 19th July. She and the cruiser Almirante Cervera, which was in
drydock, were crewed by those loyal to the Republican cause. From their
stationery positions they fought a fierce battle against ships and coastal gun
emplacements loyal to General Franco's forces. The result was a stalemate. However, a
couple of days later, the Republican crews were tricked into surrendering in
order to avoid needless destruction and bloodshed, following which the ships were
seized by Nationalist forces.
.P For what remained of her existence, España fought with Franco. In August she
bombarded Irun in northern Spain as part of the Nationalist war with the Basques,
and it was in this region that she met her end.
.P On the 30th April 1937, España struck a mine laid by her own side and sank
quickly. She was sailing off the port of Santander during the blockade of Bilbao;
capital of the Basque region, when she struck the mine.
.P Note; as she was sunk during the Spanish Civil War, España is only used in
World In Flames if playing in conjunction with Days of Decision.


Punctuation on other write ups are ":" not ";".

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 8/20/2010 1:30:34 PM >


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1805
RE: Just for fun - 8/20/2010 9:10:54 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Spanish navy done (except the TRS)

Please see 5 posts - one for each class of ship.

Re the TRS - if anybody has any stories for the two Nationalist TRS I would be grateful (I will use SS Cantabria for the Republican TRS).

1/5

[5087 España - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 15,500 hp
.B Top Speed: 19.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 12-inch (305mm), 20 x 4-inch (102mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 15,450 tons
.B Thickest armour: 8-inches (belt)
.P The Españas were a class of three battleships constructed for the Spanish
navy between 1909 and 1921. They would prove to be the smallest of all the
dreadnought battleships built for any navy.
.P The ships were built in Spain with assistance from Britain; assistance that
was obviously in short supply between the years 1914-1918. The name ship, España,
was completed in 1913 and Alfonso XIII was completed in 1915. However, the effect
of the First World War on the ability of Spain to source resources meant that
completion of Jaime I was delayed until 1921.
.P Although the Españas were small ships for their type, their armament was
respectable when compared with their contemporaries; consisting of a 12-inch main
armament, with eight guns fitted in four twin turrets and twenty 4-inch guns in
casemates for their secondary armament.
.P However, two areas where their small size told was in their relative lack of
speed - less than 20 knots - and their poor range, making them little more than
coastal defence battleships.
.P Another compromise was their lack of armour protection. The belt was a maximum
8-inches thick and the armour deck just 1.5-inches; both lighter than
contemporary vessels.
.P España was named after the country she served, Alfonso XIII was named after
the then current monarch, while Jaime I was named after a 13th Century King of
Aragon.
.P España was originally named Alfonso XIII, but she was re-named in 1931 after
King Alfonso XIII fled Spain that year in response to the declaration of the
Second Spanish Republic. The original España had been lost after running aground
in 1923, after which she was wrecked by gales before she could be salvaged.
.P By the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War in July 1936, España was laid up in
the naval base at El Ferrol and it was here that a strange naval battle took
place on the 19th July. She and the cruiser Almirante Cervera, which was in
drydock, were crewed by those loyal to the Republican cause. From their
stationery positions they fought a fierce battle against ships and coastal gun
emplacements loyal to General Franco's forces. The result was a stalemate. However, a
couple of days later, the Republican crews were tricked into surrendering in
order to avoid needless destruction and bloodshed, following which the ships were
seized by Nationalist forces.
.P For what remained of her existence, España fought with Franco. In August she
bombarded Irun in northern Spain as part of the Nationalist war with the Basques,
and it was in this region that she met her end.
.P On the 30th April 1937, España struck a mine laid by her own side and sank
quickly. She was sailing off the port of Santander during the blockade of Bilbao;
capital of the Basque region, when she struck the mine.
.P Note; as she was sunk during the Spanish Civil War, España is only used in
World In Flames if playing in conjunction with Days of Decision.


Punctuation on other write ups are ":" not ";".

Warspite1

Good spot - will amend

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1806
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/23/2010 1:30:56 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I have finalised one of the previously written TRS counters - a rather sad story....


[4718 Transport - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Name: RMS Lancastria
.B Engine(s) output: 13,500hp
.B Top Speed: 17 knots
.B Main armament: 1 x 4-inch (102mm) gun
.B Gross Tonnage: 16,243 tons
.B Thickest armour: Not Applicable
.P World in Flames uses two main types of naval transport counter: Transport
(TRS) and Amphibious (AMPH). The use of these counters depends to an extent on
what optional rules are being used. However, as a general rule, TRS represent
the types of ship that were used to transport men and material from one friendly
port to another, while AMPH represent the specialised shipping that could land
men and material on a hostile shore.
.P In World War II, ships of every type and from every available source, were
placed under the command of the British Ministry of War Transport (MOWT). These
ships were not only drawn from Britain`s own merchant fleet but also from those
of Britain`s Allies - the Norwegian contribution being particularly important. In
addition, enemy ships that were captured by the RN also fell under the control of
MOWT.
.P Some ships were commissioned into the Royal Navy (RN) and were given an RN
crew, while others were either totally crewed by civilians or had a mixed
complement. By way of example, some merchant vessels were equipped with heavy
guns that required operation by DEMS (Defensively Equipped Merchant Ship) gunners
and these men typically came from the RN or even the army.
.P TRS not only include troop ships but also other vessels that kept the troops
fighting overseas supplied. These vessels include tankers, munitions ships and
other cargo carrying vessels. These write-ups outline a few of these vessels that
were so vital to ensuring a successful outcome to the Second World War.
.P RMS Lancastria was completed in 1922. She was originally built for the Anchor
Line with the name Tyrrhenia. However, she was transferred to the famous Cunard
Line whilst being built, and two years later, refitted and renamed (her proposed
name was considered non-user freindly), Lancastria began work for her new owners.
Initially, she sailed regularly from Liverpool to New York, although in the early
thirties she became a cruise ship, operating in both the Mediterranean and in
northern waters.
.P At the outbreak of the Second World War, the Lancastria was cruising in the
Caribbean when she was given the order to sail for New York. There, she was
refitted as a troopship and was soon after sailing between the United Kingdom and
Canada, bringing Canadian troops to join the fight alongside the mother country.
This trans-atlantic steaming came to an end with the German invasion of Norway
and Denmark in April 1940. After less than two months, the Allied troops were
evacuated from their last toe-hold in northern Norway, and Lancastria was part of
the evacuation convoy (see Transport Counter 4720).
.P Her next - and last - role saw her take part in Operation Aerial. While the
story of Operation Dynamo, the "Miracle of Dunkirk" is well known, Operations,
Cycle and Aerial, the evacuation from northern and western French ports
respectively, are less well documented. After the evacuation of the BEF from
Dunkirk there were still over 150,000 British troops in France. Winston Churchill
sent a second Expeditionary Force of two divisions to join the original BEF in a
bid to help save the French from defeat. However, there was little prospect that
this force would be able to achieve anything, and within a couple of weeks, they
too were in need of evacuation - along with thousands of Royal Air Force and army
non-combatants.
.P On the 15th June, with the French Army in retreat and - despite Prime Minister
Reynaud`s best efforts - with the French soon to exit the war, Operation Aerial
was put into operation. Troops and civilians were embarked, the majority from
four ports, St-Malo, St-Nazaire, La Pallice and Brest. On 17th June, the newly
installed President of France, the World War One hero Marshal Petain, ordered his
troops to cease firing but fortunately, by the end of that day, the majority of
the remaining British troops had been evacuated. The Luftwaffe sought to hamper
the British operation through bombing attacks and aerial mine-laying, and in this
they were only modestly successful in terms of shipping sunk. Sadly, their one
big success was to prove costly for the evacuees and crew aboard the Lancastria.
.P As part of Aerial, Lancastria had left Liverpool and arrived at the Loire
river estuary on the 16th. By the afternoon of the following day, while off St
Nazaire, she had embarked a large number of troops and civilians. The actual
number embarked is not known and the official records will not be available
until 2040, but all ships were overloaded with evacuees and Lancastria was no
exception. Despite her capacity being officially 1,580, she is believed to have
taken onboard anywhere between 4,000 and 9,000 evacuees. Just before 0400hrs, she
was bombed by German Ju-88 aircraft, hit four times, and sank within twenty
minutes. Many evacuees were crammed into the cabins and holds below deck and they
had little chance of getting to safety in the time available; if indeed they had
not been killed outright by the blast from the bombs. To make matters even worse,
Lancastria was carrying an excess of fuel oil and this leaked into the sea and
then caught fire after German aircraft began strafing the survivors.
.P Losses that day are difficult to judge given the confusion surrounding how
many were embarked in the first place, but it is generally accepted that a very
minimum of 3,500 people lost their lives. To put this into context, that is more
than died due to the loss of both the Titanic and Lusitania combined. This makes
her loss the worst single maritime disaster in British maritime history. So
serious were the events of that day taken, that at a time of one defeat after
another, the British Government initially withheld the news in the interests of
public morale.
.P The Captain that day, Rudolf Sharpe, was a survivor of this tragedy and later
went on to captain the troopship Laconia (see Transport counter 4719) in which
he was to lose his life in 1942.
.P During Aerial, the Allies were aided by the fact that the advancing German
troops found keeping up with the retreating Allied soldiers difficult and the
enemy bombers had to fly long distances to reach the western ports. As a result,
in total, 163,225 men were evacuated during this operation. These included over
30,000 men from Cherbourg, 21,000 from St Malo, 32,000 from Brest, 57,000 from
St Nazaire and 2,000 from La Pallice. A further 19,000 were rescued from other
smaller ports.


A sad story indeed.

I found this sentence "Able to carry 2,200 people, the Captain was dismayed when instructed to take as many as he could fit." at http://www.squidoo.com/lancastria

Anyone know if there is any truth to the claim that the Captain was instructed to overload the ship?




_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1807
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/23/2010 3:53:03 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


A sad story indeed.

I found this sentence "Able to carry 2,200 people, the Captain was dismayed when instructed to take as many as he could fit." at http://www.squidoo.com/lancastria

Anyone know if there is any truth to the claim that the Captain was instructed to overload the ship?





"We left Liverpool on the 14th of June at 17.00, arriving at Plymouth on the 15th. We left Plymouth at midnight and arrived at the Charpentier Sea Roads, Saint Nazaire at 04.00 on the 17th of June".

Soon after two Royal Navy officers on orders from the Admiralty boarded Lancastria and instructed Captain Sharp to load as many men as possible, "without regard to the limits laid down by international law".


Captain Sharp Account

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 1808
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/23/2010 4:40:57 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
5th para:

RMS Lancastria was completed... (her proposed name was considered non-user freindly),

should be friendly


_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1809
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/23/2010 8:35:51 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
paulderynck - 5th para: RMS Lancastria was completed... (her proposed name was considered non-user freindly), should be friendly

Heres the whole thing spell checked including paulderynck's correction. This is according to Webster's and Microsoft Word.

[4718 Transport - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Name: RMS Lancastria
.B Engine(s) output: 13,500hp
.B Top Speed: 17 knots
.B Main armament: 1 x 4-inch (102mm) gun
.B Gross Tonnage: 16,243 tons
.B Thickest armour: Not Applicable
.P World in Flames uses two main types of naval transport counter: Transport
(TRS) and Amphibious (AMPH). The use of these counters depends to an extent on
what optional rules are being used. However, as a general rule, TRS represent
the types of ship that were used to transport men and material from one friendly
port to another, while AMPH represent the specialized shipping that could land
men and material on a hostile shore.
.P In World War II, ships of every type and from every available source, were
placed under the command of the British Ministry of War Transport (MOWT). These
ships were not only drawn from Britain’s own merchant fleet but also from those
of Britain’s Allies - the Norwegian contribution being particularly important. In
addition, enemy ships that were captured by the RN also fell under the control of
MOWT.
.P Some ships were commissioned into the Royal Navy (RN) and were given an RN
crew, while others were either totally crewed by civilians or had a mixed
complement. By way of example, some merchant vessels were equipped with heavy
guns that required operation by DEMS (Defensively Equipped Merchant Ship) gunners
and these men typically came from the RN or even the army.
.P TRS not only include troop ships but also other vessels that kept the troops
fighting overseas supplied. These vessels include tankers, munitions ships and
other cargo carrying vessels. These write-ups outline a few of these vessels that
were so vital to ensuring a successful outcome to the Second World War.
.P RMS Lancastria was completed in 1922. She was originally built for the Anchor
Line with the name Tyrrhenia. However, she was transferred to the famous Cunard
Line whilst being built, and two years later, refitted and renamed (her proposed
name was considered non-user friendly), Lancastria began work for her new owners.
Initially, she sailed regularly from Liverpool to New York, although in the early
thirties she became a cruise ship, operating in both the Mediterranean and in
northern waters.
.P At the outbreak of the Second World War, the Lancastria was cruising in the
Caribbean when she was given the order to sail for New York. There, she was
refitted as a troopship and was soon after sailing between the United Kingdom and
Canada, bringing Canadian troops to join the fight alongside the mother country.
This transatlantic steaming came to an end with the German invasion of Norway
and Denmark in April 1940. After less than two months, the Allied troops were
evacuated from their last toehold in northern Norway, and Lancastria was part of
the evacuation convoy (see Transport Counter 4720).
.P Her next - and last - role saw her take part in Operation Aerial. While the
story of Operation Dynamo, "The Miracle of Dunkirk" is well known, Operations,
Cycle and Aerial, the evacuation from northern and western French ports
respectively, are less well documented. After the evacuation of the BEF from
Dunkirk there were still over 150,000 British troops in France. Winston Churchill
sent a second Expeditionary Force of two divisions to join the original BEF in a
bid to help save the French from defeat. However, there was little prospect that
this force would be able to achieve anything, and within a couple of weeks, they
too were in need of evacuation - along with thousands of Royal Air Force and army
non-combatants.
.P On the 15th June, with the French Army in retreat and - despite Prime Minister
Reynaud`s best efforts - with the French soon to exit the war, Operation Aerial
was put into operation. Troops and civilians were embarked, the majority from
four ports, St-Malo, St-Nazaire, La Pallice and Brest. On 17th June, the newly
installed President of France, the World War One hero Marshal Petain, ordered his
troops to cease firing but fortunately, by the end of that day, the majority of
the remaining British troops had been evacuated. The Luftwaffe sought to hamper
the British operation through bombing attacks and aerial mine laying, and in this
they were only modestly successful in terms of shipping sunk. Sadly, their one
big success was to prove costly for the evacuees and crew aboard the Lancastria.
.P As part of Aerial, Lancastria had left Liverpool and arrived at the Loire
river estuary on the 16th. By the afternoon of the following day, while off St
Nazaire, she had embarked a large number of troops and civilians. The actual
number embarked is not known and the official records will not be available
until 2040, but all ships were overloaded with evacuees and Lancastria was no
exception. Despite her capacity being officially 1,580, she is believed to have
taken onboard anywhere between 4,000 and 9,000 evacuees. Just before 0400hrs, she
was bombed by German Ju-88 aircraft, hit four times, and sank within twenty
minutes. Many evacuees were crammed into the cabins and holds below deck and they
had little chance of getting to safety in the time available; if indeed they had
not been killed outright by the blast from the bombs. To make matters even worse,
Lancastria was carrying an excess of fuel oil and this leaked into the sea and
then caught fire after German aircraft began strafing the survivors.
.P Losses that day are difficult to judge given the confusion surrounding how
many were embarked in the first place, but it is generally accepted that a very
minimum of 3,500 people lost their lives. To put this into context, that is more
than died due to the loss of both the Titanic and Lusitania combined. This makes
her loss the worst single maritime disaster in British maritime history. So
serious were the events of that day taken, that at a time of one defeat after
another, the British Government initially withheld the news in the interests of
public morale.
.P The Captain that day, Rudolf Sharpe, was a survivor of this tragedy and later
went on to captain the troopship Laconia (see Transport counter 4719) in which
he was to lose his life in 1942.
.P During Aerial, the Allies were aided by the fact that the advancing German
troops found keeping up with the retreating Allied soldiers difficult and the
enemy bombers had to fly long distances to reach the western ports. As a result,
in total, 163,225 men were evacuated during this operation. These included over
30,000 men from Cherbourg, 21,000 from St Malo, 32,000 from Brest, 57,000 from
St Nazaire and 2,000 from La Pallice. A further 19,000 were rescued from other
smaller ports.


< Message edited by Extraneous -- 8/23/2010 8:49:02 PM >


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 1810
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/24/2010 3:09:26 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
Edited from the Queen’s English to American English.

[5087 España - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 15,500 hp
.B Top Speed: 19.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 12-inch (305mm), 20 x 4-inch (102mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 15,450 tons
.B Thickest armor: 8-inches (belt)
.P The Españas were a class of three battleships constructed for the Spanish
navy between 1909 and 1921. They would prove to be the smallest of all the
dreadnought battleships built for any navy.
.P The ships were built in Spain with assistance from Britain; assistance that
was obviously in short supply between the years 1914-1918. The name ship, España,
was completed in 1913 and Alfonso XIII was completed in 1915. However, the effect
of the First World War on the ability of Spain to source resources meant that
completion of Jaime I was delayed until 1921.
.P Although the Españas were small ships for their type, their armament was
respectable when compared with their contemporaries; consisting of a 12-inch main
armament, with eight guns fitted in four twin turrets and twenty 4-inch guns in
casemates for their secondary armament.
.P However, two areas where their small size told was in their relative lack of
speed - less than 20 knots - and their poor range, making them little more than
coastal defense battleships.
.P Another compromise was their lack of armor protection. The belt was a maximum
8-inches thick and the armored deck just 1.5-inches; both lighter than
contemporary vessels.
.P España was named after the country she served, Alfonso XIII was named after
the then current monarch, while Jaime I was named after a 13th Century King of
Aragon.
.P España was originally named Alfonso XIII, but she was re-named in 1931 after
King Alfonso XIII fled Spain that year in response to the declaration of the
Second Spanish Republic. The original España had been lost after running aground
in 1923, after which she was wrecked by gales before she could be salvaged.
.P By the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War in July 1936, España was laid up in
the naval base at El Ferrol and it was here that a strange naval battle took
place on the 19th July. She and the cruiser Almirante Cervera, which was in
drydock, were crewed by those loyal to the Republican cause. From their
stationery positions they fought a fierce battle against ships and coastal gun
emplacements loyal to General Franco's forces. The result was a stalemate. However, a
couple of days later, the Republican crews were tricked into surrendering in
order to avoid needless destruction and bloodshed, following which the ships were
seized by Nationalist forces.
.P For what remained of her existence, España fought with Franco. In August she
bombarded Irun in northern Spain as part of the Nationalist war with the Basques,
and it was in this region that she met her end.
.P On the 30th April 1937, España struck a mine laid by her own side and sank
quickly. She was sailing off the port of Santander during the blockade of Bilbao;
capital of the Basque region, when she struck the mine.
.P Note: as she was sunk during the Spanish Civil War, España is only used in
World In Flames if playing in conjunction with Days of Decision.


[5089 Baleares - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 90,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 33 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 8-inch (203mm), 8 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 13,070 tons
.B Thickest armor: 2-inches (belt)
.P The Canarias-class consisted of two heavy cruisers built for the Spanish
navy during the early thirties. Like the earlier Alfonso-class, they were
designed by the British and were based on an existing class of Royal Navy
cruiser; in this case the County-class.
.P The two Spanish vessels featured a number of improvements and modifications,
including a slimmer, longer hull than their British counterparts. Despite these
changes, the hull was unmistakably that of a Kent-class cruiser, but where there
was a noticeable difference was in the superstructure.
.P A change in the arrangement of the boilers allowed for a reduction in funnels
from three to two, although the two funnels were then trunked into one large
stack. Visually, the bridge was also very different to the British version, and
gave the Canarias' an unusual, almost unfinished look.
.P The main armament consisted of eight 8-inch guns fitted in four twin turrets,
although thanks to the Civil War, Baleares first appeared minus her Y turret;
this was fitted nine months before her sinking. Secondary armament as designed
comprised eight single 4.7-inch guns and a mix of 40mm and 12.5mm light anti-
aircraft (AA) guns, although again, thanks to the raging Civil War, the actual
equipment fitted differed to the original specification and indeed changed over
time. The armament package was completed by four triple torpedo tubes, but a
catapult and aircraft handling capability was never fitted.
.P Armour defense was provided by a belt of 2-inches with an extra 2-inches of
thickness to cover the magazine spaces. Horizontal defense was limited to an
armored deck of 1.5-inches and an additional 2-inches of protection for the
magazines.
.P The ships were faster than the British versions thanks to the different hull
design and slightly more powerful machinery. These features allowed the ships to
retain bulges for anti-torpedo defense at no cost in speed.
.P The ships were named after the two large Spanish owned island chains; the
Canary Islands in the Atlantic and the Balearic Islands in the Mediterranean.
.P Baleares was still fitting out in Ferrol when the Spanish Civil War began in
July 1936. She was completed, minus her Y turret and with a hastily put together
secondary armament package, in December of that year. She fought with the
Nationalist forces during the war.
.P Baleares was not to enjoy a successful existence. After completion, she was
largely unsuccessful in waging war against Republican convoys and was placed back
in the dockyard in June 1937 to have her missing turret fitted.
.P Baleares was badly damaged during the Battle of Cape Cherchell in September
1937, when she came across two Republican light cruisers (see Méndez Núñez).
.P The Battle of Cape Palos was fought on the night of the 5th and 6th of March
1938, and was the largest naval battle of the Spanish Civil War. The two sisters
Canarias and Baleares were sailing in company with Almirante Cervera and three
destroyers, providing distant escort for a convoy that was bringing supplies from
Italy to Spain. The Nationalist cruisers lost their destroyer escort during the
evening of the 5th as they returned to base to refuel; this would cost the
Baleares dearly.
.P Just after midnight on the 6th, when off the coast of Spain, near Cartagena,
they stumbled across a Republican naval force that consisted of the light
cruisers Libertad and Méndez Núñez and five destroyers. The Republican destroyers
were able to fire a torpedo salvo but without effect. Over the next two hours the
two fleets remained apart and when they came together again at around 0200hrs,
the two heavy cruisers were able to bring their heavier ordnance to bear first.
However, in doing so, they made their positions plainly visible to the enemy
ships. While the two cruiser forces exchanged fire, three of the destroyers,
Barcaiztegui, Lepanto and Almirante Antequera were able to get into position to
fire their torpedoes at the unsuspecting Baleares.
.P A number of torpedoes found their target, exploding in her forward magazine,
causing catastrophic damage to the whole forward half of the ship. With the
protection of the convoy uppermost in mind, the two remaining Nationalist
cruisers departed the scene rapidly. Surprisingly, the Republican vessels did not
pursue them.
.P Baleares was quickly, and uncontrollably ablaze, and alerted by the burning
vessel, two British Royal Navy destroyers came to the aid of the survivors. Even so,
almost 800 of her crew perished with her.
.P As she was sunk during the Spanish Civil War, the Baleares counter is only
available if playing with Days of Decision.


[5093 Libertad - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 80,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 33 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 6-inch (152mm), 4 x 4-inch (102mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 9,237 tons
.B Thickest armor: 3-inches (belt)
.P The Alfonsos were a class of three British designed light cruisers that
were built in Spain during the twenties. Their design was based upon the Royal
Navy's E-class, but with a number of detail differences compared to the earlier
ships.
.P The main armament consisted of eight 6-inch guns rather than the seven the
E-class were provided with; these being fitted in three twin and two single
mounts. Secondary armament was provided by four single 4-inch guns that were
capable of providing anti-aircraft (AA) defense, while close-range AA protection
was provided by two 3-pdr guns.
.P The armor protection came courtesy of a belt 3-inches thick at its maximum,
and for horizontal defense, an armored deck of between 1 and 2-inches to cover
the machinery and magazine spaces.
.P Visually, these fine looking ships had one funnel less than the E-class, with
only two funnels being required thanks to the placement of all the boilers
forward of the engine rooms.
.P The ships were fast, being capable of 33 knots on paper, and were actually
slightly quicker during trials.
.P The three ships of the class were named: Principe Alfonso, after the then heir
to the Spanish throne; Almirante Cervera, after the Spanish admiral that fought
during the Spanish-American War; and Miguel De Cervantes, the Spanish novelist,
poet and playwright. After the second Spanish Republic was proclaimed in 1931,
the name ship of the class had her name changed to Libertad; the Spanish word for
freedom. Her name was changed again at the conclusion of the Civil War, won by
the Nationalists, and she became the Galicia, named after the Spanish region.
.P Libertad was completed in September 1927. She was to see much action during
the Spanish Civil War, fighting on the Republican side and acting as the Flagship
for its navy during most of the conflict. Whether a ship ended up fighting for
the Republicans or Nationalists in the Civil War was dependent upon a number of
factors. In the case of Libertad, she was on her way to Cadiz, when the crew
turned on their officers, who were undecided as a group on which side to support,
The majority of the crew had no such doubts and declared their ship for the
Republican cause.
.P Libertad was ordered to sail for North Africa as one of the Republican navy's
main tasks at the start of the war was to ensure that troops in Spanish Morocco,
who were sympathetic to the Nationalist cause, could not get to the mainland.
This blockade was to fail, when, in September, the bulk of the navy left the
Strait in order to assist Republican attempts to take the Balearic Islands back
from the Nationalists. Not only did the invasion fail, but the removal of the
main naval forces from the Strait led to further Republican defeat at the Battle
of Cape Espartel (see Canarias).
.P Libertad was instrumental in inflicting heavy damage on the Nationalist heavy
cruiser Baleares in September 1937 in what became known as the Battle of Cape
Cherchell (see Méndez Núñez) and she was present once more when, six months
later, on the night of the 5th / 6th March 1938, she took part in the largest
naval battle of the Civil War. This battle, known as the Battle of Cape Palos
resulted in the sinking of Baleares (see Baleares).
.P As the war headed towards its grim conclusion, options for the Republican navy
were few, and she was to be involved in no other major operation.
.P Libertad was to survive the Civil War and, duly modernized, remained in
service with the Spanish fleet until 1970.


[5094 Méndez Núñez - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 45,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 29 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 6-inch (152mm), 4 x 3-pdr guns
.B Displacement (full load): 3,918 tons
.B Thickest armor: 3-inches (belt)
.P Méndez Núñez was the name ship in a class of two light cruisers built for
the Spanish navy between 1917 and 1925. The Spanish Government had set up an
armaments company, Sociedad Española de Construcción Naval (SECN) in 1908 to
re-build the Spanish navy after its losses in the 1898 war with the United
States. Despite this, construction times for naval vessels were lengthy at this
time due to the impact of the First World War and the difficulty in sourcing
essential materials.
.P The ships bore similarities to the Royal Navy’s C-class cruisers no doubt due
to the fact that a quarter of the SECN was owned by three British armaments
firms that provided Spain with design and build expertise.
.P The class were fitted with six 6-inch guns fitted in six single mounts and had
a secondary armament of four 3-pdr anti-aircraft guns and four machine guns. They
also carried four triple torpedo tubes.
.P Armour protection was light, the ships being fitted with a belt of between
1.25-inch and 3-inches in thickness. Horizontal protection was limited to deck
armor of just 1-inch.
.P The engines provided a top speed of 29 knots, similar to the speed of their
British counterparts.
.P Both ships were named after famous Spanish admirals; Méndez Núñez being named
after the 19th century naval hero Admiral Casto Méndez Núñez, while her sister
ship, Blas de Lezo honored the memory of Admiral Blas de Lezo y Olavarrieta who
served the navy in the 18th century. Blas de Lezo was lost in 1932 after being
grounded on a reef.
.P Méndez Núñez was completed in 1924 and at the outbreak of the Spanish Civil
War she was in Africa. She quickly returned to Spain and fought for the
Republicans in that conflict, although her age limited her usefulness.
Nonetheless, she took part in two main actions during that war.
.P What became known as the Battle of Cape Cherchell took place on the 7th
September 1937. Méndez Núñez was accompanied by the light cruiser Libertad and
four destroyers in escorting a supply convoy when the ships came across the
Nationalist, heavy cruiser Baleares that morning. The accompanying destroyers
were ordered to stay with the convoy while the light cruisers headed for battle
with Baleares. The Republican ships were able to inflict serious damage on their
larger enemy in a battle that took place over many hours. Despite being damaged
early on however, the Baleares refused to give up and pursued the two enemy
cruisers. It was to prove a bad decision because when the ships came within range
once more that afternoon, Baleares was no more successful than she had been
during the morning exchange. The Nationalist cruiser was able to limp safely away
to fight another day, but it had been an impressive victory for Méndez Núñez and
Libertad.
.P Later in the war, on the night of the 5th / 6th March 1938 Méndez Núñez took
part in the largest naval battle of the Civil War, and a battle that, this time,
spelt the end for the Baleares (see Baleares).
.P After the war Méndez Núñez was converted to an anti-aircraft cruiser and she
remained part of the Spanish navy for over twenty more years.
.P Méndez Núñez was scrapped in 1963.
.P Note: there are two counters for Méndez Núñez; one in Republican colors and
the other as a ship of the Nationalist navy. The former counter is only for use
with Days of Decision, while the latter is available for use by the Spanish navy;
should your next game of World In Flames see Spain dragged into that conflict.


[5095 Navarra - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 25,500 hp (as designed)
.B Top Speed: 25.5 knots (as designed)
.B Main armament: 6 x 6-inch (152mm), 4 x 88mm guns
.B Displacement (full load): 6,500 tons
.B Thickest armor: 3-inches (belt)
.P Reina Victoria Eugenia was the sole ship of the Eugenia-class of light
cruiser. She was originally going to have up to three sister ships but only one
ship was ultimately ordered.
.P In common with most Spanish naval vessels built in the first half of the 20th
Century, Eugenia's design was based upon an existing class of Royal Navy vessel -
in this case the Birmingham-class - but with certain modifications to the design.
.P Unfortunately, by the time she entered service, she was pretty much obsolete.
An unfortunate feature of Spanish naval construction at this time was the lengthy
build time and thanks largely to the First World War, Eugenia was only completed
in 1923 despite being designed and laid down eight years previously.
.P She was named after Victoria Eugenia of Battenburg, who married the Spanish
King Alfonso XIII in 1906. After the declaration of the Second Spanish Republic
in 1931 she was re-named Republica. At the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War in
1936 her name was changed again, reflecting the fact that she was now in service
with the Nationalist navy. She became Navarra, after the region in northern
Spain.
.P At the start of the war she was under-going modernization. When this was
complete, Navarra was able to commence operations with General Franco's navy.
However, her lack of speed meant that she was not able to keep pace with the more
modern cruisers, Canarias and Almirante Cervera. As a result, she was of limited
use and she was mostly used as part of the Nationalist attempts to blockade
Republican held areas of Spain.
.P Navarra survived the Civil War and was reconstructed in 1938. The technical
details above are post her modernization except where stated and reflect her
details at the outbreak of World War II. Navarra retained six of her single 6-
inch guns, having had three removed. Secondary armament was strengthened to
provide an adequate anti-aircraft defense and consisted of four 88mm and four
20mm close-range guns. Her torpedo tubes were removed at this time.
.P Despite these modifications, Navarra remained obsolete by 1939 and although
she was to remain in service with the Spanish navy until the early 1950's, she
was relegated largely to a training role for much of that time.
.P Navarra was scrapped in 1956.
.P Note: this ship has two counters, one named Republica and one Navarra. The
Republica counter is for use with Days of Decision only, while Navarra is
available to the Spanish navy should Spain become involved in your next game of
World In Flames.


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1811
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/24/2010 6:30:25 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Edited from the Queen’s English to American English.


Warspite1

Why?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1812
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/24/2010 9:40:30 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
I don't know how the English spell:

Defense or Defence?
Noticeable or Noticable?
Modernized or Modernised?
Strengthened or Strenghened?


Please note I also corected a place where you used "amour deck" and it should be "armoured deck".



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1813
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/24/2010 10:11:12 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Okay - more than happy to take any spelling/grammar/technical mistakes you can find - and thanks for taking the trouble to check these . However, as said previously, I will be sticking to English English (as I have enough trouble with that, without trying to second guess American English ).

Paulderynck - thanks for the spot on Lancastria too - will amend

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1814
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/25/2010 4:50:49 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
5087 España - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 15,500 hp
.B Top Speed: 19.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 12-inch (305mm), 20 x 4-inch (102mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 15,450 tons
.B Thickest armour: 8-inches (belt)
.P The Españas were a class of three battleships constructed for the Spanish
navy between 1909 and 1921. They would prove to be the smallest of all the
dreadnought battleships built for any navy.
.P The ships were built in Spain with assistance from Britain; assistance that
was obviously in short supply between the years 1914-1918. The name ship, España,
was completed in 1913 and Alfonso XIII was completed in 1915. However, the effect
of the First World War on the ability of Spain to source resources meant that
completion of Jaime I was delayed until 1921.
.P Although the Españas were small ships for their type, their armament was
respectable when compared with their contemporaries; consisting of a 12-inch main
armament, with eight guns fitted in four twin turrets and twenty 4-inch guns in
casemates for their secondary armament.
.P However, two areas where their small size told was in their relative lack of
speed - less than 20 knots - and their poor range, making them little more than
coastal defence battleships.
.P Another compromise was their lack of armour protection. The belt was a maximum
8-inches thick and the armoured deck just 1.5-inches; both lighter than
contemporary vessels.
.P España was named after the country she served, Alfonso XIII was named after
the then current monarch, while Jaime I was named after a 13th Century King of
Aragon.
.P España was originally named Alfonso XIII, but she was re-named in 1931 after
King Alfonso XIII fled Spain that year in response to the declaration of the
Second Spanish Republic. The original España had been lost after running aground
in 1923, after which she was wrecked by gales before she could be salvaged.
.P By the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War in July 1936, España was laid up in
the naval base at El Ferrol and it was here that a strange naval battle took
place on the 19th July. She and the cruiser Almirante Cervera, which was in
drydock, were crewed by those loyal to the Republican cause. From their
stationery positions they fought a fierce battle against ships and coastal gun
emplacements loyal to General Franco's forces. The result was a stalemate. However, a
couple of days later, the Republican crews were tricked into surrendering in
order to avoid needless destruction and bloodshed, following which the ships were
seized by Nationalist forces.
.P For what remained of her existence, España fought with Franco. In August she
bombarded Irun in northern Spain as part of the Nationalist war with the Basques,
and it was in this region that she met her end.
.P On the 30th April 1937, España struck a mine laid by her own side and sank
quickly. She was sailing off the port of Santander during the blockade of Bilbao;
capital of the Basque region, when she struck the mine.
.P Note; as she was sunk during the Spanish Civil War, España is only used in
World In Flames if playing in conjunction with Days of Decision.


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1815
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/26/2010 8:13:20 PM   
michaelbaldur


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From: denmark
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in both the Sunderlands write ups ... the ju 88 are called figthers ... they are bombers ..

On 2 June 1943, an RAAF Sunderland Mk III encountered eight Luftwaffe Ju 88C long-range fighters over the
Bay of Biscay.


_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 1816
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/26/2010 9:19:41 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

in both the Sunderlands write ups ... the ju 88 are called figthers ... they are bombers ..

On 2 June 1943, an RAAF Sunderland Mk III encountered eight Luftwaffe Ju 88C long-range fighters over the
Bay of Biscay.

Warspite1

Who is co-ordinating the air unit write-ups?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to michaelbaldur)
Post #: 1817
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/26/2010 9:38:11 PM   
Froonp


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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

in both the Sunderlands write ups ... the ju 88 are called figthers ... they are bombers ..

On 2 June 1943, an RAAF Sunderland Mk III encountered eight Luftwaffe Ju 88C long-range fighters over the
Bay of Biscay.


The Ju88 was a multipurpose plane.
There were medium bomber versions, fighter versions, dive bomber versions, close support bomber versions, reconnaissance versions.
Ju88C, Ju88G were fighter versions.
Ju88A, Ju88S were bomber versions.
Ju88D, Ju88H were recon versions.

This below is a C-4 version belonging to the NJG2, which is a Nacht (Night) Jagd (fighter) Geschwader (Wing).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to michaelbaldur)
Post #: 1818
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/26/2010 9:40:09 PM   
Froonp


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From: Marseilles, France
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This C-6 is from 11 ZG26 'Horst Wessel'. another Heavy Fighter Group.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1819
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/26/2010 9:42:02 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Who is co-ordinating the air unit write-ups?

Sabre21 (Andy) was reviewing the air units done by Greyshaft (Graham), but I'm not sure that Andy is hanging around these days.

But, there is nothing to correct, the Sunderland write-ups are correct, the Ju88C were long range fighters that patrolled the Bay of Biscay.

< Message edited by Froonp -- 8/26/2010 9:43:17 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1820
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/26/2010 11:19:03 PM   
brian brian

 

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that picture of the C-4 makes it look like the pilot would reach up to pull a trigger on the machine gun ?


there are a lot of smaller-scale Luftwaffe campaigns that aren't so well known, such as in the Bay of Biscay. The Aegean in 43/44 is somewhat mysterious too, and in Yugoslavia I believe the Luftwaffe dusted off all those pre-war planes from the Reserve Pool to battle with Tito.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1821
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/27/2010 3:47:09 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

that picture of the C-4 makes it look like the pilot would reach up to pull a trigger on the machine gun ?


there are a lot of smaller-scale Luftwaffe campaigns that aren't so well known, such as in the Bay of Biscay. The Aegean in 43/44 is somewhat mysterious too, and in Yugoslavia I believe the Luftwaffe dusted off all those pre-war planes from the Reserve Pool to battle with Tito.


The main armament is in the nose. The machine gun you can see would not be operated by the pilot but by another member of the crew. It can be swivelled around to counter aerial threats/strafe other targets etc.

Cheers, Neilster


< Message edited by Neilster -- 8/27/2010 3:48:03 AM >

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 1822
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/27/2010 5:48:33 AM   
Froonp


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From: Marseilles, France
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This one Ju88C-6 is funny too.
Painted as a bomber to deceive enemy fighter pilots.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 1823
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/27/2010 11:20:51 AM   
Neilster


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That worked...for a very brief period of time.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 1824
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/29/2010 10:15:59 AM   
warspite1


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Please see example of a Royal Navy monitor.

[5102 Abercrombie - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 4,800 hp
.B Top Speed: 12.5 knots
.B Main armament: 2 x 15-inch (381mm), 8 x 4-inch (102mm) guns
.B Displacement (full Load): 9,717 tons
.B Thickest armour: 5-inch (belt)
.P Monitors were designed to support troops on land by providing naval
gunfire support against enemy positions and installations. They were slow ships
of a simple design that allowed construction at relatively low cost.
.P Most of the monitors that survived World War One were scrapped at the end of
that war, but two ships of the Erebus-class, armed with 15-inch guns, survived
the cull and would see service in the Second World War.
.P The two Roberts-class monitors were built for the Royal Navy (RN) during
the Second World War and were an improved version of the successful Erebus-class.
Construction began in April 1940 (Roberts) and April 1941 (Abercrombie). While
Roberts took just seventeen months to complete, her sister was not ready until
May 1943; the delay due to the building of other ship types taking priority.
.P For their main armament, each ship was fitted with a single twin 15-inch gun
turret. These weapons were already available to the Admiralty - One came from
Marshal Soult, an ex-monitor, and the other was a turret originally intended for
a battlecruiser. Secondary armament was provided by four twin 4-inch guns,
supported by two quad and one eight-barrelled 2-pdr pompom; a healthy anti-
aircraft (AA) defence.
.P Armour defence featured a belt, a maximum of 5-inches thick, and bulges were
added for anti-torpedo defence. For horizontal protection the ships featured an
armoured deck of 4-inches and further protection of up to 6-inches over the
magazine.
.P As befitting their role, the ships' machinery was not especially powerful,
providing a top speed of just over 12 knots.
.P Unusually for RN ships, these two monitors were named after army generals:
General Abercrombie served in North America in the 18th Century, and Field
Marshal Roberts who served in many colonial campaigns during the 19th Century.
.P HMS Abercrombie was completed in April 1943 and after work-up she was ordered
to the Mediterranean. This theatre was to give Abercrombie her only battle
honour.
.P Her first task was under US command in support of the Allied landings on
Sicily where Abercrombie covered the assault by the US 45th Infantry Division
(see HMS Argonaut). She then provided support for Allied units during the battle
to conquer the island (see HMS Howe).
.P At the start of September, Abercrombie was tasked with supporting Operation
Baytown, the landing by the British XIII Corps on the Italian mainland in
Calabria (see HMS Erebus), before being placed back under US command for
Operation Avalanche, the Salerno landings.
.P On the 9th September, the US 5th Army landed at Salerno, south of Naples, as
part of the Allied attempts to trap as many German troops as possible in the heel
and toe of the Italian mainland. The invasion forces sailed from various ports in
North Africa and Sicily. The assaulting troops were split into the northern and
southern attack forces. The British X Corps, made up the northern force and were
to land east and west of Salerno, with the task of taking the town, while the US
VI Corps, the southern force, were to land further south. Abercrombie was
attached to the US support group alongside the US cruisers Philadelphia, Savannah
and Brooklyn.
.P Rear-Admiral Harcourt was in command of the British escort and support group
and his flotilla consisted of the cruisers Mauritius, Orion, Delhi and HMCS
Uganda, the monitor Roberts and accompanying destroyers. The convoys were guided
to the targets by a submarine stationed in the Gulf of Salerno. Two further
forces were responsible for Covering the landings and providing support: Rear-
Admiral Vian`s support carrier force, known as Task Force 88, consisted of the
carrier Unicorn, the escort carriers Attacker, Battler, Hunter and Stalker; the
cruisers Euryalus, Scylla and Charybdis and escorting destroyers. The covering
force was under Vice-Admiral Willis and consisted of the fleet carriers
Illustrious and Formidable, the battleships Nelson, Rodney, Valiant and Warspite
and their escorting destroyers.
.P Thinking that surprise had been lost, the British laid down a shore
bombardment ahead of their attack, although the US forces decided to dispense
with this. Although the landings were successful, the resistance put up by the
German forces was fearsome and they managed to keep the two Allied corps isolated
from each other. For ten days the operation was touch-and-go and at one point,
the commander of 5th Army, Lt-General Clark, considered withdrawing. However, the
Allies held firm with the aid of support from the naval forces (see HMCS Uganda)
and ultimately it was the Germans that withdrew.
.P For Abercrombie however, the battle was already over. On the day of the
assault Abercrombie was badly damaged after hitting a mine and the damage
effectively ended her war. Although she was repaired, refitted and sent to the
Far East, the war finished before she had the chance to reach the war zone.
.P HMS Abercrombie was scrapped in 1954.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 1825
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/31/2010 10:08:55 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
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2/2 An example of the second class of monitor available to the Royal Navy during WWII. With thanks to Paulderynck re the names.

[5099 Terror - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 6,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 12 knots
.B Main armament: 2 x 15-inch (381mm), 6 x 4-inch (102mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 9,400 tons
.B Thickest armour: 4-inches (belt)
.P The two Erebus-class monitors were built for the Royal Navy (RN) during
the First World War and both were to see action in both world wars.
.P Monitors were slow ships of a simple design that allowed construction at
relatively low cost. They were designed primarily to support troops on land by
providing naval gunfire support against enemy positions and installations.
.P A number of classes were built for the RN during the First World War and although
most of these vessels were scrapped at the end of that conflict, the two Erebus-class
ships - Erebus and Terror - survived. This class benefited from experience learned from
previous monitors, and in particular the Marshal Soult-class, and proved successful in
their monitor role.
.P For their main armament, the Erebus-class featured two 15-inch guns in a single
turret. The secondary armament was updated early in World War II and the technical
data above reflects how the ships appeared in 1940. At this time they were given six
high-angle 4-inch guns. Close-range anti-aircraft (AA) weaponry on Terror was provided
by seven 20mm guns. Erebus had significant AA enhancements as the war progressed,
and she was ultimately fitted with twenty-five 2-pdrs and a mix of 40mm and 20mm
guns.
.P Defensive armour was also increased in 1939/40 to provide against the growing
aerial menace. The main deck was 2.5-inches thick and protection at the upper
deck level was doubled from 2-inches to four covering the magazine. For vertical
protection, the 4-inch belt remained, together with bulges for anti-torpedo
defence.
.P These ships were the fastest monitors the RN built during World War I and they
had a top speed of 12 knots.
.P The names Erebus and Terror had been used on many occasions previously by the
RN. On all but a couple of occasions, the ships that were given these names were
rocket or bomb vessels; early forerunners of the monitor-type. The second HMS
Erebus and the sixth HMS Terror were lost in 1845, having been part of the
ill-fated expedition to find the North-West Passage; an expedition that cost the
lives of Sir John Franklin and his 129-man crew. The final resting place of both
ships is unknown.
.P HMS Terror was completed in August 1916 and at the outbreak of World War II
she was in Singapore where she was being been used as a base ship. It was there
that she had the refit detailed above and that would allow her to be used as a
monitor once more. This work lasted until December following which she was
ordered back to the UK in January 1940.
.P On the journey home she was given revised orders to stay in the Mediterranean
in view of the growing possibility of war with Italy. A further refit took place
in Malta which increased the strength of her deck armour and she then remained in
Malta along with the gunboats: Aphis, Gnat and Ladybird to await developments.
.P After the Italian declaration of war in June, Terror was transferred to
Alexandria the following month in order to assist the defence of Egypt. She
provided naval gunfire support against the invading Italian forces after they
crossed the Libyan/Egyptian border that September. In December, with the Italian
"offensive" stalled, the British launched an offensive operation of their own,
Operation Compass.
.P To support Compass, Terror and the three gunboats operated as Force A,
providing naval gunfire support at Sidi Barrani. On the 17th, Aphis actually
penetrated the harbour and sank some coastal vessels before safely retiring.
Compass had originally been designed as a limited raid against the Italians to
disrupt their advance on Egypt. However, the incredible success of Lt-General
O'Connor's Western Desert Force was such that they kept on going long after its
original objectives were achieved. By early January the British force were just
south of the port of Bardia, Eastern Libya. On the 2nd/3rd January Terror took
part in the second bombardment of Bardia alongside the battleships Valiant,
Warspite and Barham; three gunboats and five destroyers. The carrier Illustrious
and the AA cruiser Calcutta provided cover for this operation. Both Warspite and
Barham were lightly damaged in the action which saw huge numbers of 15-inch,
6-inch and 4.5-inch shells fired at the Italian positions. Bardia surrendered the
next day.
.P After Bardia, Terror and the gunboats moved onto the larger port of Tobruk
where they resumed the shelling of Italian positions. This bombardment assisted
troops of the 6th Australian Division in capturing this port. After this
operation Terror had additional close-range AA weapons fitted in the form of 20mm
Italian guns that had been captured at Tobruk, although these were not to save
her from her ultimate fate.
.P On the 17th February she arrived at Benghazi and five days later left the
port to begin her next operation. During her departure she hit two mines that
caused only light damage, but the next day she came under attack from three
German bombers. Terror was hit and began to take on water. A minesweeper and a
corvette were sent to escort her back to port, but the damage proved too great
and after her crew were transferred to the escorts, Terror sank whilst off Derna.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1826
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/31/2010 3:54:44 PM   
brian brian

 

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they recently found the 19th century Erebus or Terror in northern Canada, I forget which. just this summer.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1827
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/31/2010 4:04:11 PM   
warspite1


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Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

they recently found the 19th century Erebus or Terror in northern Canada, I forget which. just this summer.

Warspite1

I could find nothing to that effect on the internet - can you let me know how you came across this information please?



_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 1828
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/31/2010 6:15:03 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

they recently found the 19th century Erebus or Terror in northern Canada, I forget which. just this summer.

Warspite1

I could find nothing to that effect on the internet - can you let me know how you came across this information please?



I think that was HMS Investigator, one of the rescue ships.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10793639

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 1829
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 8/31/2010 7:46:27 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
my bad, Neilster got it right. the piece I read on my Yahoo front page mentioned the Erebus and Terror and I confused that with finding the Investigator. being a WiF player those two ship names certainly caught my attention. just not quite enough of it.

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 1830
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