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RE: Mother Russia - 12/21/2006 4:11:03 AM

trees

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anyone know what 'kaya' might mean in Russian? curious.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 91

RE: Mother Russia - 12/21/2006 4:49:18 AM

Mziln

Posts: 1107
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From: Tulsa Oklahoma
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quote:

ORIGINAL: trees

anyone know what 'kaya' might mean in Russian? curious.

Sovietkaya translates to a crillic word that won't print correctly here which translates back to English as Soviet.

Prompt Online Translator

< Message edited by Mziln -- 12/21/2006 5:01:01 AM >

(in reply to trees)

Post #: 92

RE: Mother Russia - 12/21/2006 4:59:29 AM

trees

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I know what it means in Bob Marley speak, which is somewhat universal around the world, and made sense even in Japan one time. So I was suprised to see it part of the Russian language too. So ... Soviet - what?

(in reply to Mziln)

Post #: 93

RE: Mother Russia - 12/21/2006 5:39:54 AM

SemperAugustus

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Please note the source (David Irving) of this before taking this at face value, but it indicates that Sovjetskaya Gavan was considered as back up to Vladivostok in the case of a Japanese attack.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Churchill/Moscow_Oct1944/Harriman_Stalin.html

Irving apparently does do some research well (in digging up documents), but I wouldn't take everything to be true that he writes.

(in reply to Peter Stauffenberg)

Post #: 94

RE: Mother Russia - 12/21/2006 6:09:51 AM

Mziln

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Sovetskaya Gavan is a port on the Pacific coast linked to Komsomolsk-na-Amure, 500 km west, by an extension of the BAM. Nowadays it has about 40,000 inhabitants. The city was originally known as Imperatorskaya Gavan (Emperor's Harbor), and in 1926 became Sovetskaya Gavan (Harbor of the Soviets).

Sovetskaya Gavan city info

Please note both cities have the kaya sufix but one is Emperor's Harbor so the other may be able to be translated as Soviet's Harbor or Harbor of the Emperor and Harbor of the Soviets. I would assume it means "of the" in some cases.

< Message edited by Mziln -- 12/21/2006 6:31:04 AM >

(in reply to SemperAugustus)

Post #: 95

RE: Mother Russia - 12/21/2006 6:59:16 AM

SemperAugustus

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Note though that the BAM line was still under contruction, so there wouldn't be a railroad to Sovietskaya Gavan at this time I think.

(in reply to Mziln)

Post #: 96

RE: Mother Russia - 12/21/2006 7:47:23 AM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

Note though that the BAM line was still under contruction, so there wouldn't be a railroad to Sovietskaya Gavan at this time I think.

No there should not be. The BAM contruction was halted.
Here is an answer I got from a Russian guy that maintains a website about the BAM :

******************************************************
I am glad for your interest for our subject.
The history of BAM- in short- is sush.
Indeed,the beginning of BAM construction attributs to 1930. It was very difficult to construct without any mechanism. It was the result of slow work. In the second part of 1930 the government sent many political prisoners to construct Transsib- Just Skovorodino, there was one of the parts of Gulag. "A little BAM" was opened in 1940, the rail-tracks connected Tinda and Skovorodino.
But the beginning of the Second World War stopped the building because all the people-builders were sent to the front. In 1942 the ready construction (part Skovorodino-Tinda) was quickly stripped (or dismantled) and the rail-tracks were sent to Stalingrad, where before the well-known Stalingrad Battle the rocad railway lines (parallel to the main front) has been constructed. It was very important to supply technics and food products for Soviet troops!
From 1943(!) started (with great secrecy) the construction of the east extension of BAM the line Komsomolsk-Soviet Gavan on the Far East/ but after the end of the Second World War we had one more serious enemy in the East-Japan.
Under bad conditions, without roads, the building of the railway in the East started.
In 1945(!) this line was put into operation (on the eve of the Victory). War technics, fuel resourcts,food were transfered to Soviet Gavan.
In August 1945 the USSR began active actions against the ally of Germany- Japan/
Thancs to the fact that railway was ready soviet troops crushed Japan in 2 weeks.
In 1951 the line Izvestkovaja-Urgal was constructed. In 1954 the rails reached Ust-Kut (on Lena river).
Since 1970 began the main buildng of BAM joining all of these points Ust-Kut - Tinda - Urgal - Komsomolsk.
Just is the history in short, my dear!

With best regards.
Wsevolod.
******************************************************

(in reply to SemperAugustus)

Post #: 97

RE: Mother Russia - 12/21/2006 10:31:15 AM

Peter Stauffenberg

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From: Oslo, Norway
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quote:

ORIGINAL: trees

anyone know what 'kaya' might mean in Russian? curious.

Kaya is the adjective suffiks for female nouns in nominative.

Gavan' is a female noun and it means harbor. Sovetskaya
Gavan' means Soviet harbor. Notice that the symbol ' of the
name indicates that the noun ends with the soft sign symbol
of the Russian alphabet (myakiy zhak).

Take for example the adjective for Russian. They are written
like this in nominative:
* Russkiy (male noun) ending: iy
* Russkaya (female noun) ending: aya
* Russkoye (neuter noun) ending: oye
* Russkiye (plural) ending: iye

In accusative you will see that female adjectives change to the ending uyu).
For example: Russkuyu. Male and neuter adjectives remain the same with
the exception for male noun of living persons or animals. Then the ending
for the adjective will be ogo as in genitive. For example Russkogo
(pronounced russkava).

It's quite easy to know whether Russian nouns are male, female or
neuter. If the noun ends with a consonant in nominative then it's a male
noun. If it ends with a or ya then it's a female noun (with the exception
of the ending mya which is neuter). If it ends with e or o then it's neuter.
The only difficulty is with the nouns ending with the soft sign ('). 75% of
these are female nouns and 25% of them are male nouns. Gavan' is a
female noun. Therefore we write Sovetskaya and not Sovetskiy.

I hope this lesson of Russian grammar didn't scare you too much.

It's not too difficult. At least there is some system to the grammar rules.
Norwegian language is more chaotic with more exceptions and less
rules. I think that's more difficult even though I'm a native Norwegian.

< Message edited by Borger Borgersen -- 12/22/2006 6:55:05 PM >

(in reply to trees)

Post #: 98

RE: Mother Russia - 12/22/2006 4:53:54 AM

Incy

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Maybe you can ask him when Khabarovsk-Komsomolsk was built?
It seems odd to me that Komsomolsk-Soviet Gavan could be built in '43-'45 without the completion of Khabarovsk-Komsomolsk first..

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 99

RE: Mother Russia - 12/22/2006 6:18:24 AM

trees

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well thanks for the Russian lesson, though I was hoping it was something more exciting than the nominative gender indicator.

(in reply to Incy)

Post #: 100

RE: Mother Russia - 1/14/2007 4:45:07 PM

Peter Stauffenberg

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From: Oslo, Norway
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Yes, add Ulan-Ude.

I agree too that Ulan Ude is added to the map. Froonp, can you show a screenshot how it looks in the Ulan Ude / Chita region with Ulan Ude added?

< Message edited by Borger Borgersen -- 1/14/2007 5:00:00 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 101

RE: Mother Russia - 1/14/2007 9:57:30 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Borger Borgersen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Yes, add Ulan-Ude.

I agree too that Ulan Ude is added to the map. Froonp, can you show a screenshot how it looks in the Ulan Ude / Chita region with Ulan Ude added?

Here is it.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Peter Stauffenberg)

Post #: 102

RE: Mother Russia - 1/14/2007 9:59:09 PM

Froonp

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Here is the part east of it.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 103

RE: Mother Russia - 1/14/2007 10:01:44 PM

Froonp

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And here is the part west of it.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 104

RE: Mother Russia - 1/14/2007 10:04:28 PM

Froonp

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And for good measure, here is the same area in WiF FE.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 105

RE: Mother Russia - 1/15/2007 4:52:35 AM

Incy

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Did someone do some sort of research on the soviet resource near manchuria border?
In WiF, this resouce was in supply from Chita in clear weather. It's also 1 hex away from where the railroad crosses the border.
But in MWiF, it's now 5 hexes from Chita, the nearest city. That makes it much more difficult/dangerous to defend the resurce for russia.

Incy

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 106

RE: Mother Russia - 1/15/2007 6:07:25 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy
Did someone do some sort of research on the soviet resource near manchuria border?
In WiF, this resouce was in supply from Chita in clear weather. It's also 1 hex away from where the railroad crosses the border.
But in MWiF, it's now 5 hexes from Chita, the nearest city. That makes it much more difficult/dangerous to defend the resurce for russia.
Incy

I made a little researches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chita_Oblast
It says that "the oblast is rich in ferrous, non-ferrous, rare, and precious metals, coal, charcoal, and mineral waters. Russia's estimated reserves of ores with a high uranium content are 145,400 tons. Most of these deposits are located in Chita Oblast, near Krasnokamensk, site of the Priargunskiy Mining and Chemical Combine (PMCC).[2] Forests cover about 60% of its territory. As a result, the oblast's main industries are metallurgy, fuel, and timber. It also has advanced light and food industries. Local agriculture focuses on cattle, sheep, and reindeer breeding."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasnokamensk%2C_Chita_Oblast

So I think that the RP of the MWiF map may well be intended to be Krasnokamensk. Moreover, Krasnokamensk is at the position where the RP was put on the MWiF map.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Incy)

Post #: 107

RE: Mother Russia - 1/15/2007 6:15:35 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy
Did someone do some sort of research on the soviet resource near manchuria border?
In WiF, this resouce was in supply from Chita in clear weather. It's also 1 hex away from where the railroad crosses the border.
But in MWiF, it's now 5 hexes from Chita, the nearest city. That makes it much more difficult/dangerous to defend the resurce for russia.
Incy

I also have this map (from 1935) that show Iron Ore deposits, in the area of Krasnokamensk (the black square north or the city named Manchuria on this map -- but whose real name is (was) Manchouli)

This resource is about 30 miles from the Chinese border, so I think that the RP that MwiF map show here is at the right place on the map, and that I can label it Krasnokamensk.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Froonp -- 1/15/2007 6:37:29 PM >

(in reply to Incy)

Post #: 108

RE: Mother Russia - 1/15/2007 7:20:09 PM

Peter Stauffenberg

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From: Oslo, Norway
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
This resource is about 30 miles from the Chinese border, so I think that the RP that MwiF map show here is at the right place on the map, and that I can label it Krasnokamensk.

I agree with you about this. I'm not too afraid of any possible problems for the Russian player to protect this resource. It's far away from Japan and if they reach as far as this resource then Russia is in big problems anyway.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 109

RE: Mother Russia - 1/28/2007 4:02:16 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Here are the revised bitmaps (from Rob) for Lake Khanka and thereabouts.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Peter Stauffenberg)

Post #: 110

MWiF USA Oil Resources - 1/28/2007 5:08:25 PM

Froonp

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About the oil resource that MWiF has in Alaska, USA :

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
I did some research to find out where the oil depected here is coming from :

************************************************
From http://kodiakisland.net/timeline.html :

1890 First oil claims are staked in Cook Inlet.

1902 First oil production in Alaska.

1957 Atlantic Richfield discovers oil at Swanson River on the Kenai Peninsula, beginning Alaska's modern oil era. The Swanson River field on the Kenai Peninsula was the first commercial production site for oil and gas in Alaska's modern oil era. During the next ten years, additional oil fields are discovered offshore in nearby Cook Inlet and production platforms are installed to bring production on-line for the Middle Ground shoal field, the Granite Point field, the MacArthur River field and the Trading Bay field. By 1968, the Cook Inlet is producing nearly 200,000 barrels per day, and the income generated by oil production in Alaska is contributing more than 20% of the state government's total revenues.

1958 Congress passes Alaska Statehood Act conveying ownership of 104 million acres.

1959 Alaska is admitted to the Union as the 49th state, and William A. Egan becomes Alaska's first governor. Sitka pulp mill opens. State revenues: $25.4 million. British Petroleum begins to explore for oil on Alaska's North Slope.

1960 Amoco finds offshore oil in Cook Inlet.
************************************************

I said nothing for the moment, but I'll check if this oil is an EXTRA oil from the WiF game, or if it is an existing USA oil that has been relocated here.
I think I'll advocate getting rid of it, if it is an extra oil, as my research do not show that it was a source of oil during WWII.

Opinions ?

I've counted the Oil resources in MWiF, and the USA have 18 oil resources, 17 in the USA proper and 1 in Alaska (I know, Alaska is also the USA proper, but this was to differenciate).
- WiF FE has the USA having 17 oil resources.
- MWiF have the USA having 18 oil resources.

Having 18 oil resources is pretty much historical, and having 1 in Alaska is pretty much historical too, though it may be argued that the Alaskan oil production may have been too low during WWII to warrant 1 oil resource being placed there.
Also, this "extra" oil resource is not linked to the USA railway network, so CP need to be placed at sea to ship it at home (1 CP in the Gulf of Alaska to ship it to Vancouver, Canada).

So, what should we do ?
- Should this "extra" oil resource be deleted ?
- Should this "extra" oil resource be kept, as a sign from ADG (this is ADG who placed this oil resource on the map in the CWiF days, not me, nor Steve, nor Matrix) that they would have wished for it to be there, in the ever improving world of WiFFE) ?

Steve, do you think you could ask Harry ?

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 111

RE: MWiF USA Oil Resources - 1/28/2007 9:11:03 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

About the oil resource that MWiF has in Alaska, USA :

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
I did some research to find out where the oil depected here is coming from :

************************************************
From http://kodiakisland.net/timeline.html :

1890 First oil claims are staked in Cook Inlet.

1902 First oil production in Alaska.

1957 Atlantic Richfield discovers oil at Swanson River on the Kenai Peninsula, beginning Alaska's modern oil era. The Swanson River field on the Kenai Peninsula was the first commercial production site for oil and gas in Alaska's modern oil era. During the next ten years, additional oil fields are discovered offshore in nearby Cook Inlet and production platforms are installed to bring production on-line for the Middle Ground shoal field, the Granite Point field, the MacArthur River field and the Trading Bay field. By 1968, the Cook Inlet is producing nearly 200,000 barrels per day, and the income generated by oil production in Alaska is contributing more than 20% of the state government's total revenues.

1958 Congress passes Alaska Statehood Act conveying ownership of 104 million acres.

1959 Alaska is admitted to the Union as the 49th state, and William A. Egan becomes Alaska's first governor. Sitka pulp mill opens. State revenues: $25.4 million. British Petroleum begins to explore for oil on Alaska's North Slope.

1960 Amoco finds offshore oil in Cook Inlet.
************************************************

I said nothing for the moment, but I'll check if this oil is an EXTRA oil from the WiF game, or if it is an existing USA oil that has been relocated here.
I think I'll advocate getting rid of it, if it is an extra oil, as my research do not show that it was a source of oil during WWII.

Opinions ?

I've counted the Oil resources in MWiF, and the USA have 18 oil resources, 17 in the USA proper and 1 in Alaska (I know, Alaska is also the USA proper, but this was to differenciate).
- WiF FE has the USA having 17 oil resources.
- MWiF have the USA having 18 oil resources.

Having 18 oil resources is pretty much historical, and having 1 in Alaska is pretty much historical too, though it may be argued that the Alaskan oil production may have been too low during WWII to warrant 1 oil resource being placed there.
Also, this "extra" oil resource is not linked to the USA railway network, so CP need to be placed at sea to ship it at home (1 CP in the Gulf of Alaska to ship it to Vancouver, Canada).

So, what should we do ?
- Should this "extra" oil resource be deleted ?
- Should this "extra" oil resource be kept, as a sign from ADG (this is ADG who placed this oil resource on the map in the CWiF days, not me, nor Steve, nor Matrix) that they would have wished for it to be there, in the ever improving world of WiFFE) ?

Steve, do you think you could ask Harry ?

It doesn't matter to me whether the oil is included or not. Since it is in the CSV files for terrain, it would be easy for players to modify either way if they felt passionately about it.

Please ask Harry as part of the list, so we can forestall questions from players who buy the product with "Harry said ... ".

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 112

RE: MWiF USA Oil Resources - 1/29/2007 12:47:45 AM

trees

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Joined: 5/28/2006
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Harry suggested a long time ago that the best way players could 'balance' World in Flames to their tastes was to add or subtract resources to the USA...

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 113

RE: MWiF USA Oil Resources - 4/14/2007 12:28:07 AM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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Would someone know the names of the places where those 2 russian resources are ?
Borger, isn't your wife from Siberia ?