Offseason in no-finances mode

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Sports] >> PureSim Baseball >> Tech Support >> Offseason in no-finances mode

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Offseason in no-finances mode - 11/11/2006 10:15:23 PM

URett

Posts: 54
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

My association: 40 teams, 60 man roster, no finances, seeded 1900, real players will appear early

In the first offseason the 39 other teams made a total of 3 draft picks. All teams proceeded then to make in-season signings after the draft.

The draft didn't end after five rounds. I couldn't find anything in the manual, is that a bug or a special feature for no-finances mode? If it's a feature the draft window should not say "Round 6 of 5".

Due to real players appearing early the draft was very deep, combined with the non-participation of the AI I could have replaced my whole team with good rookies.

I hope this was just a freak occurrence, otherwise something is seriously wrong with the AI.

Update: At the beginning of the second season there are a lot (several hundred) of decent to very good free agents (at least according to the 1-5 ratings), many of them real players. Spot-checking some teams it seems those teams don't sign those free agents because they already have good enough players all across their rosters. So the problem seems to be that so many good fictional players are created for the initial draft that there is very little demand for the new real rookies. One solution could be to use the "real players will appear early" function for the initial draft, thus cutting down the number of fictional players needed and avoiding an extremely deep draft pool for the second season.

< Message edited by URett -- 11/11/2006 10:44:57 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Offseason in no-finances mode - 11/12/2006 1:54:27 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

I think the problem is your beginning year.� You've already described the problem : even with early entry of real players, there aren't enough to populate the league.� I think you should start later, or maybe go with 50-man rosters.� 1900 is just too soon, IMHO.��You're stretching the game's limits to the breaking point.� The only option you have is to force-retire all those fictional stand-ins before beginning the second season draft.�

I get around this simply by starting later.� 1920 might be good. This gets around the "Ruth problem". �He comes in as a batter, not a pitcher. �I start with 1946, post-WWII.� The beginning of the modern era, but pre-expansion.�

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/12/2006 1:57:54 AM >

(in reply to URett)

Post #: 2

RE: Offseason in no-finances mode - 11/12/2006 3:22:59 AM

URett

Posts: 54
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

I agree that my setup needs a lot of fictional players, but I also maintain that using the "import real players early" logic for the initial draft would greatly alleviate the problem of fictional players from the initial draft crowding out real players from subsequent drafts. Alternatively, maybe increase the probability of real players retiring if there are unsigned real players.

The second offseason went similarly to the first one, a total of 7 draft picks amongst 39 AI teams. I think that is a real problem/bug. In a no finances environment teams should draft/sign players until only scrubs are left. So what if they have to cut 20 players after spring training, there is no incentive not to do it.

(in reply to URett)

Post #: 3

RE: Offseason in no-finances mode - 11/12/2006 4:42:36 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

No, man, I disagree. 40 teams in 1900? Why? There should only be 16, and even at that, you're stretching the envelope. It isn't the game that's buggy -- it's your setup.

Sorry to sound harsh, URett, but you seemed to have gone out of your way to stretch the sim beyond its limits. If you want it to seem "real", then "get real". Otherwise, then yeah, expect many of the generated fictionals to bump real players. The AI GM/playing-field manager engine doesn't give a hoot about names -- it simply crunches numbers.

However, I see what you're getting at about the drafts in subsequent seasons -- with mo finances, the AI GMs suddenly get a blind-eye when evaluating up-and-coming new talent. This does need to be looked at.

My dream of playing out every game of my chosen team would be useless if the following season's amateur draft overwhelmingly stacked the cards, so to speak, in my team's favor. Inevitably, I'd be stacking up the minors with potential future superstars, and the Pirates would turn into the equivalent of the freakin Yankees of the '50s. That'd be like selling my soul to the devil.

It would invalidate the whole thing. That is NOT what I want.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/12/2006 5:06:34 AM >

(in reply to URett)

Post #: 4

RE: Offseason in no-finances mode - 11/12/2006 5:46:17 AM

URett

Posts: 54
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

KG Erwin, I think we might have a communication breakdown here. Let me try to isolate my different points in this discussion.

1. I use a 40 team association to make it harder to win the division. I am fully aware that I will need a lot of fictional players to fill 40 teams @ 60 players. Shaun did a fantastic job of balancing the real/fictional mix, and in another association with the same setup the real players rose to the top over time, as they should. No problem at all.

2. Due to the "import real players early" option the 1901 draft is extremely deep, as about 3 years worth (my assumption) of real players get imported. This could be improved by including 2 of those 3 years in the initial draft. This would cut down the number of fictional players needed in the initial draft, and it would ensure a somewhat consistent influx of new talent for subsequent drafts. Small problem and imo easily fixable.

3. The AI doesn't participate enough in the draft/free agency despite having no financial restraints. If you could pick up as many players as you liked, wouldn't you go through spring training with 10, 20 , 30 extra players and then trim your roster before the season begins? One effect of this AI behavior is that the human owner gets to pick better rookies than he should be able to if every team participated. I think this is a big problem/borderline bug and I don't think it is related to my league setup. In fact, I just ran a quick 4 team league with the same settings (no finances, 1900 seeded) and through the first 3 seasons not a single draft pick has been made, so association size doesn't seem to be a factor. I will keep an eye on this, maybe this will change over time.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 5

RE: Offseason in no-finances mode - 11/12/2006 6:31:25 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

On point 3,�if I were participating as a human GM (which I do), then I can essentially get "the pick of the litter" each year in the draft.�� Is this what you are saying?�

In this case, the AI GM needs to be tweaked to draft for its teams' needs. This is a tall order.

Otherwise, this takes away much of the thrill for solo career play.

PS Perhaps clicking "team affinity" ON can help a bit. If Shaun can extend this part of the code to draft players based on team affinity, then we may be getting somewhere.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/12/2006 6:52:22 AM >

(in reply to URett)

Post #: 6

RE: Offseason in no-finances mode - 11/12/2006 1:14:18 PM

URett

Posts: 54
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

Exactly! In the first offseason there were 3 years worth of rookies available and only 3 were picked by other teams, so I could have replaced most of my original team, which was bad on purpose to increase the challenge, with decent to good rookies. I only filled my 5 open roster spots, but I still got the #1, #4, #5, #6 and #7 players available. To counteract that I basically would have to institute a house rule to not pick the best players available on purpose, and that seems silly.

In the third offseason 31 of the AI teams made at least one pick, so this problem may go away over time. Maybe Shaun can still tweak the general logic for reserve clause mode and have teams go into spring training with more than 60 players.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 7

RE: Offseason in no-finances mode - 11/13/2006 8:10:41 PM

URett

Posts: 54
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

Update: After 6 years most AI teams make at least 3 draft picks, so the problem seems to be related to the start-up phase of the league.

(in reply to URett)

Post #: 8