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Solomon Islands Map - 11/28/2006 8:54:11 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Rob finished the Solomons today. Here are screen shots (prior to Patrice's proof-reading and map data corrections).




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/28/2006 8:56:33 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		A close-up of Dutch New Guinea and Papua. The Hermit Islands will be part of the Carolines map segment (next to be done).




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/28/2006 8:57:45 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Some of the Commonwealth holdings in this area of the Pacific.




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/28/2006 9:01:10 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		4th and last in the series. You can't quite walk a marine from Guadalcanal to Rabaul. By the way, this zoom level 7 (of 8).




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 6:25:01 AM   
trees

 

Posts: 175
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Status: offline 		whistles

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 5:37:32 PM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline 		Too bad there's not a "triple-diple-jungly-jungle" terrain type for Papua New Guinea.

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 5:43:49 PM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline 		Tulagi was such an important part of the Guadalcanal campaign, i'm surprised to see that it doesn't have a minor port. I suppose it's not in WIF FE? in which case, how about a small label after Florida, i.e. Florida (Tulagi).



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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 5:50:43 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		The label "Milne Bay" is a bit too far to the east, making it look like it is refering to something on Normamby Island, or the Louisiade Archipelago...

I notice that Vella Lavella has "Baa Baa Baaa" (reference to VMF-214 Blacksheep), but The Slot and/or Ironbottom Sound, or JFK's PT-109 wreck site is not labeled... WTH!!! *Throws arms up in total outrage*

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 5:53:43 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

The label "Milne Bay" is a bit too far to the east, making it look like it is refering to something on Normamby Island, or the Louisiade Archipelago...

I notice that Vella Lavella has "Baa Baa Baaa" (reference to VMF-214 Blacksheep), but The Slot and/or Ironbottom Sound, or JFK's PT-109 wreck site is not labeled... WTH!!! *Throws arms up in total outrage*

I had added "The Slot", but Steve posted screenshots without the latest data files from me .
I don't know about JFK's PT-109 wreck site.

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 6:05:43 PM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

The label "Milne Bay" is a bit too far to the east, making it look like it is refering to something on Normamby Island, or the Louisiade Archipelago...

I notice that Vella Lavella has "Baa Baa Baaa" (reference to VMF-214 Blacksheep), but The Slot and/or Ironbottom Sound, or JFK's PT-109 wreck site is not labeled... WTH!!! *Throws arms up in total outrage*

I had added "The Slot", but Steve posted screenshots without the latest data files from me .
I don't know about JFK's PT-109 wreck site.


I vote no on PT-109. Nothing against JFK, but this is a military history game, and PT-109 was not militarily significant.

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 6:18:38 PM   
SurrenderMonkey

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Jujst wondering whether Gili Gili and/or Shortland should be a minor port ... ? Maybe not. (I got WitP on the brain.)

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 6:21:53 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		PT-109 rammed by destroyer in Blankett Strait:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackett_Strait

EDIT: The "" smiley should have indicated that I was being facetious by the way.

< Message edited by mlees -- 11/29/2006 6:26:49 PM >

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 8:53:42 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Newly arrived today, here are the Caroline Islands.




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 8:55:00 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		And the Marianas and Marshall Islands.




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 8:56:14 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		A close up of the Marshall Islands, showing the importance of Kwajalein.




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 8:57:09 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		A close up of the Gilbert Islands.




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 8:58:32 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		5th and last in series. An overview of today's additions from Rob. Patrice did all those names.




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 9:03:00 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Great looking maps and even more interesting with all the Island names added. It really adds a lot of flavor to the Pacific campaigns.

Lars


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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 9:47:46 PM   
Froonp


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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Great looking maps and even more interesting with all the Island names added. It really adds a lot of flavor to the Pacific campaigns.

Lars

Yes, that's what I wanted.

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Post #: 19
RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 10:40:22 PM   
Arron69


Posts: 115
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Cant wait to move all those red Carriers around on those good looking maps.

Keep up the good work, I got so inspiret that i dug out my Cwif. And started playing solitude. A bit boring but better then no WIF.

Nippon Rules.

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/29/2006 11:05:25 PM   
Ballista


Posts: 183
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		I'll have a hard time playing the game for awhile when it comes out, as I'll be spending time cruising around the map going "oooo" and "aahhhh". Good stuff......

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Post #: 21
RE: Solomon Islands Map - 11/30/2006 2:41:20 AM   
trees

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		The new maps are indeed beautiful. But I still wonder if it is necessary to make every last speck of land in the Pacific an actual hex. Original scale WiF didn't have this problem as an average hex in the Pacific probably had several islands in it. I think getting rid of the really small ones would make the map look less cluttered in places and help the players focus on military concerns. It probably won't make any difference to actual game play how many islands are or are not on there, you could add an infinite number of islands without ports. I won't bring this up again and I would volunteer to research some of them. (Ones without a wikipedia entry at all are usually a clue they are only a few acres in size.) And, deleting a few of these can only help shrink the data this game carries around though I guess by 2006 that doesn't matter so much.

The name "Minto Reef" caught my eye on the above map, so I googled it and found this phrase: "Minto, with its great number of visible shipwrecks atop a 5 mile circle of reef without any land visible represents a huge hazard to passing shipping, and has claimed many a past vessel navigating blindly in tropic squalls." I like geography and have enjoyed the map threads but for this game I am only interested in geography that matters to the combatants in WWII.

I also really like that the Marshalls boundary was re-routed around 'Woho' to keep the same relative number of airbases on that boundary, thanks. I like using land-based air in the Pacific and adding one to that boundary would have made things different for how I play. On the other hand a player I respect recently asked me why I put a US unit on Wake in 1940...he said he had never seen a Japanese player take it, even undefended.

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Post #: 22
RE: Solomon Islands Map - 2/5/2008 8:57:23 PM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		One post in this thread did mention the non-appearance of Tulagi, one of the islets close to the coast of Florida where the Marine Paras and Rangers suffered such appalling casualties. To expand...

There was no minor port at Guadalcanal. The only reason Guadalcanal had strategic value was that it had a large grassy area on its north shore suitable for building an airstrip. but no minor port, not even a worthwhile anchorage.

The minor port was at Tulagi (or, if you like, in the sheltered waters between Tulagi and Florida. Tulagi was so important that it was the administrative centre for the whole of the Solomons. The Japanese used it as a seaplane base (as they did Shortlands).

So at this scale the minor port symbol should be at Florida and the southeast hex of Guadalcanal (on the basis of DFE) should be plain terrain suitable for four airbases (Henderson, Fighter 1, Fighter 2, and Carney).

Is Guadalcanal supposed to be a two-front port? Espiritu Santo certainly should be, but I am not sure about Guadalcanal/Florida.

If you insist on keeping Guadalcanal as a minor port so as to focus attention on it, then please move the symbol to the eastern hex, which is where Henderson Field was (at the point where the north coast bends southeast). Also, all but Ichiki's attack came from the west, so this will allow the Japanese to contest the island in the historical way.

Why are islands like Florida, Russell and Vella Lavella without jungle? They were all covered in jungle, which is why the flat grassy area on Guadalcanal was so valuable.

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Post #: 23
RE: Solomon Islands Map - 2/5/2008 9:37:59 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		Here is a more recent view of that place.




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 2/5/2008 9:50:57 PM   
Froonp


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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Why are islands like Florida, Russell and Vella Lavella without jungle? They were all covered in jungle, which is why the flat grassy area on Guadalcanal was so valuable.

I don't know, I left the hex types as they were. Maybe the Solomons Islands deserved to have a coupld of clear terrain hexes, and those were chose as the lest jungle dense ?

Also, whether jungle or plain does not matter for air unit stacking. It is 1 air unit per hex. The minor port makes it 2 Air units.

Also, I disagree about the position of Henderson Field. It is on the eastern part of the island. Look at that map, Henderson Field is at Lunga Point. Also, not all attacks form the Japanese came from the east. Bloody Ridge was from the west, and there also were attacks from the south.




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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 2/5/2008 11:02:19 PM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, you're right about the location of Lunga Point: my mistake.

I did say in my post that all but Ichiki's suicidal attack (by less than a regiment) came from the west.  The attack you say came from the south actually came from the west, down the Marayuma Trail, and then turned north for the actual assault on Bloody Ridge.

It would be good to shift the port one hex east so that the Japanese could at least have a chance to contest Guadalcanal.

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Post #: 26
RE: Solomon Islands Map - 2/6/2008 6:08:34 PM   
composer99


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Status: offline 		???

How does the port's hex affect whether the Japanese can contest it or not?

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 2/6/2008 6:53:19 PM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		If the port is in the eastern hex, then the Japanese can secure the western hex and attack overland from there at better odds, rather than trying a risky invasion into the defended port.  Japanese marines can even work their way down the southern string of islands in the Solomons.  The campaign on Guadalcanal lasted from August 1942 to February 1943 largely because the Japanese kept reinforcing the western end of the island.

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Post #: 28
RE: Solomon Islands Map - 2/6/2008 8:03:52 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

If the port is in the eastern hex, then the Japanese can secure the western hex and attack overland from there at better odds, rather than trying a risky invasion into the defended port.  Japanese marines can even work their way down the southern string of islands in the Solomons.  The campaign on Guadalcanal lasted from August 1942 to February 1943 largely because the Japanese kept reinforcing the western end of the island.

In WIF game play it doesn't make a lot of difference. It's only a little farther for the Japanese to 'walk' (via Florida) to the other end of the island. And once they have a unit there, they can land additional units in a controlled hex without invading.

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RE: Solomon Islands Map - 2/6/2008 11:00:35 PM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		As the Japanese player, you wouldn't really want to land east of an American landing on Guadalcanal, and have the US Marines smile sweetly at you as they just 'walked' northwest towards Bougainville, would you? You would want to land on the west end of the island to both have a chance at a counterattack and block northwestward island-hopping. It was, after all, what the Japanese did historically.

This is a classic example of the need to Design For Effect: to fit the hexgrid to the situation, and not allow topography to interfere with recreating the options the two commanders had in real life. For example, topographically, a two-hexside approach to Singapore cannot be justified as the landward side of the island is only 27 miles (43 km) long. But of course you have rightly Designed For Effect so that the stacking limits do allow the Japanese to do what they did historically ... even though that means twisting geography to fit the game's needs.

The terrain in the vicinity of any historical battle needs to be designed thoughfully to ensure that, without straitjacketing players, they can recreate what happened if they really want to. After all, the reason we play wargames rather than abstract games like chess is to gain an insight into military history. And we won't get that vicarious thrill of improving on the performance of the real people if the game does not present us with the same threats and opportunities as they faced all those years ago.

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