Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ???

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/10/2006 8:18:55 AM   
Chuck2


Posts: 830
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fidel_Helms


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2


There is a little bit about the pikes in the biography of Gorgas called Ploughshares into Swords. The peak of the pikes craze was in April 1862. Lee did order Gorgas to send 1,000 pikes to Jackson but that appears to be the extent of it.


It's kind of a soft order, though- "if practicable" and in any case the request came from someone other than Lee, who merely seems to be trying to help cut through some red tape for a subordinate.


Well, lots of Lee's orders were phrased in a similar manner. Though I agree it wasn't a big deal considering the small numbers. It may have even been a sly way of putting pressure on Gorgas and/or the Confederate Congress to come up with some badly needed rifles.

_____________________________


(in reply to Fidel_Helms)
Post #: 31
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/11/2006 12:13:05 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fidel_Helms

It's interesting to read about Lee's retreat away from Richmond. He was vexed over and over again by the arrival of trains bumping full of guns and ammo, when what he needed was food.


Of course, a surplus in one sector didn't mean a surplus everywhere for the Confederacy. Hence Forrest sending regiments into action unarmed.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Fidel_Helms)
Post #: 32
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/11/2006 12:14:14 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

Well, the thing is that the Confederate replacement rates in that scenario would likely decline as the game went along. IIRC, this 6 companies per week would end up being 1 or 2 by the time it kicked in.


And here is my point in essence. This wouldn't work out at all if the rate was in regiments.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Chuck2)
Post #: 33
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/11/2006 6:29:11 PM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


Posts: 825
Joined: 12/11/2001
Status: offline 		To go back to the original question, I think TOAW is very unlikely to ever really suit a Napoleonic battle scenario, but it could, with some modifications, very well suit a Napoleonic campaign scenario. I did a couple with COW/Bioed that worked reasonably well.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 34
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/11/2006 7:13:03 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar

To go back to the original question, I think TOAW is very unlikely to ever really suit a Napoleonic battle scenario, but it could, with some modifications, very well suit a Napoleonic campaign scenario. I did a couple with COW/Bioed that worked reasonably well.


It would have to be a fairly small campaign as otherwise instant communication causes problems. Once one gets into the telegraph age, and particularly with the longer time scales, operational scenarios become more realistic.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Iñaki Harrizabalagatar)
Post #: 35
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/12/2006 7:58:39 AM   
Chuck2


Posts: 830
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar

To go back to the original question, I think TOAW is very unlikely to ever really suit a Napoleonic battle scenario, but it could, with some modifications, very well suit a Napoleonic campaign scenario. I did a couple with COW/Bioed that worked reasonably well.


It would have to be a fairly small campaign as otherwise instant communication causes problems. Once one gets into the telegraph age, and particularly with the longer time scales, operational scenarios become more realistic.


The key would be setting up robust command and control features. Sub-units wouldn't be so reliable as point and click. You'd have to factor the slower communications in the game model some how.

_____________________________


(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 36
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/12/2006 11:35:41 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

The key would be setting up robust command and control features. Sub-units wouldn't be so reliable as point and click. You'd have to factor the slower communications in the game model some how.


Without writing reams of new code, it'll be very hard work to give each detachment the competency of a real general without giving him the omniscience of a TOAW player.

One possibility would be to assign a different player to each detachment. The game master would feed each player detailed information about their local situation but only allow horse-paced communications from further afield. This in itself would be quite an undertaking, and would take an awfully long time to play even if you could find enough interested parties.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Chuck2)
Post #: 37
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/12/2006 1:41:07 PM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


Posts: 825
Joined: 12/11/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar

To go back to the original question, I think TOAW is very unlikely to ever really suit a Napoleonic battle scenario, but it could, with some modifications, very well suit a Napoleonic campaign scenario. I did a couple with COW/Bioed that worked reasonably well.


It would have to be a fairly small campaign as otherwise instant communication causes problems. Once one gets into the telegraph age, and particularly with the longer time scales, operational scenarios become more realistic.

In fact, if you think about it, it is not instant comunication, but rather independent command what is simulated in the game. In full week turns your units move following orders for a fulkl week movement, wich IMO is realistic enough for a IGO/UGO system

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 38
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/12/2006 2:26:00 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar

In fact, if you think about it, it is not instant comunication, but rather independent command what is simulated in the game. In full week turns your units move following orders for a fulkl week movement, wich IMO is realistic enough for a IGO/UGO system


That's all very well. But how does some detachment at Hamburg know to start moving off to regroup the same day as Napoleon is defeated at Leipzig?

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Iñaki Harrizabalagatar)
Post #: 39
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/13/2006 12:24:23 AM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


Posts: 825
Joined: 12/11/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar

In fact, if you think about it, it is not instant comunication, but rather independent command what is simulated in the game. In full week turns your units move following orders for a fulkl week movement, wich IMO is realistic enough for a IGO/UGO system


That's all very well. But how does some detachment at Hamburg know to start moving off to regroup the same day as Napoleon is defeated at Leipzig?


It is not the same day, it is the same week


< Message edited by Iñaki Harrizabalagatar -- 12/13/2006 12:34:16 AM >

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 40
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/13/2006 11:40:28 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar

It is not the same day, it is the same week


It might well be the same day. With 60% of the turn an attack goes badly wrong. With 40% of the turn a unit 500 miles away reacts.

Or another example- cavalry in Silesia discover a force of 120,000 Russia troops. Infantry in Pommerania immediately jump on the road down.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 12/13/2006 11:49:22 AM >

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Iñaki Harrizabalagatar)
Post #: 41
RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? - 12/13/2006 8:31:38 PM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


Posts: 825
Joined: 12/11/2001
Status: offline 		Turn based games mean a lot of abstraction, some examples
Player 1 moves and defeats Napoleon at Leipzig. Player 2 moves and send Davout from Hambourg to help poor Nappy, however he is moving after the Allies have already moved for a week turn. Another example, Davout Corps is placed 1 hex away from Hambourg, but it is Allied player turn, he moves a Prussian Corps and takes Hambourg under the nose of Davout, who doesn´t reaction, he is waiting 1 week turn for orders before reacting. If anything, rather than instant reaction is that sort of slow reaction a bigger problem, but it is a problem in any turn based IGO/UGO game. You have to bear in mind the abstraction involved in the game. That is, in any case, a minor concern, to me it is much more critical the inability to conduct sieges in any realistic way, for instance.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 42
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> RE: TOAW and napoleonic era ??? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.125