RE: Camps? Where are they?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> RE: Camps? Where are they?

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RE: Camps? Where are they? - 12/24/2006 12:28:33 AM

Jonathan Palfrey

Posts: 535
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: Sant Pere de Ribes, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

The Union did tend to form new regiments instead of mustering troops into old ones, but I believe these new regiments were often attached to already existing brigades.

OK, I don't have relevant data, but that sounds like a good reply. Thanks.

You seem to be saying, in effect, that you don't expect players to raise any significant number of new brigades. Because, if they do, they'll be exceeding the total historical recruitment levels. Unless they're unable to use all the replacements for existing brigades that are available to them.

To make new-brigade recruitment entirely independent of existing-brigade recruitment seems a bit odd and unrealistic to me (though you may have some good answer to that too). In reality, I feel that recruiting a lot of people into existing brigades would have depleted the numbers available for new brigades, and vice versa.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

For the Basic Rules I want to keep things as simple as possible.

For the Basic Rules I agree there is definitely a virtue in keeping things as simple as possible for the player. That's the whole point of having Basic Rules. However, varying the recruitment rate according to territorial loss (or National Will) doesn't give the player any extra work.

I just mention this as something to consider. I don't want to make a big issue of it.

< Message edited by Jonathan Palfrey -- 12/24/2006 1:27:17 AM >

(in reply to ericbabe)

Post #: 31

RE: Camps? Where are they? - 12/25/2006 7:15:47 AM

Gil R.

Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline

Suggestions should go in the Wish List, lest they be lost. (I'm not clever enough to fit "last" and "lust" into that sentence.)

(in reply to Jonathan Palfrey)

Post #: 32

RE: Camps? Where are they? - 12/25/2006 1:09:50 PM

elmo3

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Suggestions should go in the Wish List, lest they be lost. (I'm not clever enough to fit "last" and "lust" into that sentence.)

This thread won't last long on page 1 so if you lust for changes to the game then your suggestions should go in the Wish List, lest they be lost.

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 33

RE: Camps? Where are they? - 12/25/2006 6:29:14 PM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimwinsor

Replacements generated from Camps do not lower the manpower levels of cities, only building new units does that.

I can see how this might seem at first to be unrealisitic, however...the way�I rationalize this is that Camps are facilities that scrape up men to use for replacements from other�recruiting sources not represented by�manpower points.� One source would be rounding up deserters (which were actually quite numerous throughout the war).� Another might be prisoner exchanges (which early in the war were fairly common).� A third might be conscripts drawn from the dregs of 19th century society, unemployed idlers whose contributions to society were so minimal so as to not contribute to Manpower (which may be defined as a measure of the economically productive members of society).

They may make sense to you, but it is largely an artifical construct to justify Camps in the game. As stated elsewhere in this thread -- what you suggest simply didn't happen, or didn't happen on the scale that Camps provide reinforcements in the game.

When Camps are providing 10,000 to 20,000+ reinforcements per turn, you simply can't get away from the fact that what you are modelling is the raising of new regiments to flesh out the brigades that appear in the game.

Fine. That happened historically. However, to detatch that process from the population pool creates absurd situations that mostly favor the South -- given that Camp construction is, of all things, mostly a function of the number of horses you have.

If one favors the notion that Reinforcements in the game are, roughly, 75-85% newly raised regiments and 15-25% individual replacements joining existing regiments, the long pole in the tent is not (and should not) be horses but rather people.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to jimwinsor)

Post #: 34

RE: Camps? Where are they? - 12/25/2006 7:01:12 PM

jimwinsor

Posts: 1076
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

You know, I came up with this somewhat elaborate "Wish List" idea during playtest, which not only encompassed replacements (essentially replacing Camps) but volunteer recruitment as well. Might as well throw it out here, see what you all think; note that it does tie replacements (generated now solely by the "draft"...see 12) to population levels:

New Wish List Idea for Mustering and Conscription
------------------------------------------------

1) Each side has two types of units: Regulars and Volunteers.

2) Regulars are units purchased the usual way in the production screen.

3) Regulars start with some weapon other than IWs. Random allowed by type/tech?

4) Regulars have no Term of Service (see below) and assuming they survive, serve for the duration of the game.

5) Volunteers are units brought in by the current Muster button.

6) Volunteers usually start with IWs, but maybe a random chance of a better weapon (?)

7) Volunteers have a new stat: Term of Service. It's the length of time the unit serves, after which the player must decide whether to Disband it or Reenlist it. It can vary between 3 months to 3 years.

8) Players have two ways to increase the odds of a successful Muster: A Cash Bounty and/or a lower Term of Service. Maybe a couple of slider bars under the Muster button to handle this graphically (?)

9) A Cash Bounty is simply that, a bribe to encourage enlistment in the new Brigade. Higher the bounty offered, better chance of a Muster (and very historical). Default is $0. Increments, say, of $5.

10) Term of Service varies in increments of 3 months, and the default is 3 years. Lower the TOS, the higher the chance of a Muster.

11) At the end of a TOS the player will have an option to Reenlist the unit; figure some base chance based on National Will, modified by the usual Cash Bounty and TOS sliders. If he fails the unit disbands.

12) There are no more Conscript units. Instead, each time you click the Conscript button you deduct 1 population, and add 1500 men to your replacement pool. Which is then distributed by the CoG/FoF game engine in its usual silent and efficient manner. Danger probability and effects as usual. This will serve to supplement a very inadequade trickle of automatic replacements assumed to be gathered by enlisters of existing brigades. A player can choose not to draft...but then he'll find his 3K Brigades dwindling down to 2K, then 1K...

I thought of these Wish List ideas and put them together while musing between gaming sessions. Fun, shiny new chrome, or needless additional micromanagement...you decide!

_____________________________

Streaming as "Grognerd" at https://www.twitch.tv/grognerd

(in reply to Feltan)

Post #: 35

RE: Camps? Where are they? - 12/25/2006 8:35:21 PM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

That would be a great set of improvements.

For newly raised brigades, I suggest muskets as the default -- with IW or a better weapon available at some random chance.

Mustered units in 1861 should have much lower TOS, gradually increasing over time.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to jimwinsor)

Post #: 36

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