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How Would You Like To See Us Release Games

 
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[Poll]

How Would You Like To See Us Release Games


Download Version First then Boxed Edition Later
  71% (96)
Download Version & Boxes Edition Together
  28% (39)


Total Votes : 135
(last vote on : 6/8/2007 10:08:17 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/10/2006 7:34:11 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Guys

This has been an on going debate for a while now. So I like to put it up to a vote and see how people feel. The Box edition here would be one that contains a printed manual as well. Also feel free to post any comments you may have as well.

David


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RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/10/2006 7:50:29 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		DL first.

Battlefront's model seems good. DL with the option of boxed shipped later for x$, DL only, boxed only.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 2
RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/10/2006 7:52:50 PM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline 		I voted to release the download first under the assumption that to release simultaneously you would simply sit on the download version until the boxed was ready to ship.

I can't see any good reason why anyone that was waiting on the boxed version would want to hold back someone else that didn't need it.

From a sales standpoint, does Matrix have any reason to believe that releasing together would benefit the bottom line?

For some perspective, I was initially very wary of buying via digital download but now have no qualms about it. Although I'm still more likely to impulse buy a boxed version off the shelf. Still, that's less likely nowadays because I have so many games I've bought yet barely/never played.

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RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/10/2006 8:13:34 PM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		I'm totally sold on digital download. Getting a printed manual really isn't that important to me as I print my own. Buying a decent photo printer today is less than $100. There really isn't any good excuse for someone to complain that they "don't have a printer" these days. I can do it myself cheaper than paying $9.99 for a manual (not that I don't think that is a fair price and will be very popular with some folks). I also have no interest in killing trees to produce a big cardboard game box that takes up room on my shelves. I keep my Matrix backup CD's in a disk case and manuals in binders. Sometimes I get fancy and print up a DVD case insert for especially treasured Matrix games (like WiTP). Mostly, nice boxes just leave me with the dilemma of what to do with them... they are too pretty to throw in the trash, so I end up lining shelves with all the old games that just gather dust.

You guys are doing great.

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RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/10/2006 8:43:38 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Download version first and then later boxed version. I like the current Matrix Games download system, it's easy and painless.

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 12/10/2006 10:42:59 PM >

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 5
RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/10/2006 9:19:07 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Download first.

Anyone that is impatient (like me) will want to download ASAP.
Boxed later is fine, heck it's not like boxed makes the game play better or something.

I should mention, the BiN manual I printed out here myself from the cd is better looking than any printed manual I have ever gotten in a box eh. Full colour, and nice 8.5x11 page size. Compare that with those small manuals with microscopic print size and I just don't see the attraction.

< Message edited by Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -- 12/10/2006 9:30:46 PM >

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RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/10/2006 10:17:06 PM   
LitFuel


Posts: 272
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		I will wait for the box and manual, and let you download guys work out the bugs for us. I always have enough games laying around to keep me busy until it's ready. But please no more whining about not getting manuals, you know the score so it's your choice if you get the download.

< Message edited by LitFuel -- 12/10/2006 10:26:41 PM >

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 7
RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 12:15:45 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		As it is now with the download version first but with the option to pay the extra $10 then and get sent the box copy when available.

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Post #: 8
RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 12:38:05 AM   
TheHellPatrol


Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Download first, i am very impatient. I don't mind buying a whole other copy at a later date, as i have on a few releases, just to have a manual (GGWAW being the 1st instance) and a nice little box. my next PC will burn DVD's as well, not just CD-RW's, but how was i to know.
Money is not an issue when it comes to Matrix, my Wife and kids etc... They all know where Daddy will be if they need me [my PC room]...not throwing some dollar bills or chasing a little white ball around all day.
If it ain't broke don't fix it: @Matrix...you guys are doing the right thing making the game available as a dd right away...the addition of a printed manual is a HUGE plus and i am sure you will get many more sales for that decision.

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Post #: 9
RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 10:33:05 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		As someone else stated, why would anyone who wants a manual want to make people who didn't want a manual wait?

I am of the same mind. I really, really want a printed manual....so my option would be

If the option for a digital downloader to be sent the boxed version when available cannot be presented, then I would rather leave it as it is. I see no reason to punish people who do not want a manual simply because I do. I simply won't buy digital download now, as I always have wanted and always will want a manual.

Rhonda

I've printed my manuals in the past, but as I've stated many, many times before, they are A4 clunky. I've tried sitting on the couch recently reading my massive Forge of Freedom and COTA manuals and I don't like it. They curl up at the edges, they get trashed...binders here there and everywhere. I cannot lie in my bed with a big folder, reading my latest game manual....just cannot do it.

Besides....I like the smell of a new manual!


< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 12/11/2006 10:43:01 AM >

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Post #: 10
RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 5:38:40 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		It shouldn't really be so much of what we might like, but, what is more benefical to all and the company as a whole. Due to the FoF fiasco, that scenario could happen again should something change after the digitial release. Not to mention the confusion of what digital + physical ordering means and has meant to some in the past. Plus then you only have to have TWO checkboxes on the order page. One for digital only and one for digital/physical.

Can't be any disgruntled people if the digitial and physical is released at same time really. You just make your announcements when they are both ready. I'm sure no one is going to die over having to wait 1 more week for both to be ready at the same time. This should just be common sense as a business, not a poll. :) How many people are not going to buy your games just because you decided to release digital and physical at the same time? Only the childish would throw temper tantrums....but, judging from some of the posts I've read you do have several of those here. hahaha

Also, how tamper proof is this poll? How easy is it for someone say with 100 accounts to sway the vote to their side? I do know of a few people on here that have more than one Matrixgames forum account.  Not me of course, but, the thought just occured to me that someone with a lot of time on their hands and didn't want to see change could certainly sway an unsecure poll. ;)


(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 11
RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 6:11:19 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		ravinhood

I fail to see why releasing a game as a digital download 1 week/2 weeks/ 4 weeks priior to physical shipment can cost a company money!

It makes absolute sense to sell the game immediately if a download format is available for the people that want such an option. To wait would simply "punish" those who do not want a physical copy...and why would any company want that?

For what it's worth, I have been a die hard download fan. I like getting the game when it's ready. However, on the basis on what happened with the manual in Forge of Freedom (and I'm not using this as a pop), I will not buy digital download now as I would like a manual with my games. But that doesn't mean to say everyone else should wait.

To take your statement...
quote:

what is more benefical to all and the company as a whole
...it makes complete sense for Matrix to be flexible. The way to do that is provide as many options as they can for the user to select.

As an example, I love having a manual with my game. Until now, this has not been possible with Matrix and we've had people who don't want manuals shouting about not wanting to pay extra for something they don't want. SO...Matrix have been as flexible as they can and now provide
* Digital Download $30 - keeps the people that want the game immediately happy
  • Digital Download + Physical Shipment $40 - keeps the people happy who want to play it now and get the physical box sent to them
  • Digital Download + Physical Shipment + Manual $50 - keeps me happy

    So what's the problem. They are providing for 3 different types of people there...I think that's pretty flexible and good business sense.

    They took some unfair flak because of how it was done, not becuase they released a game as a digital download and provided physical shipment later...those options have been in place for donkeys years. Had Matrix NOT released the manual option for FoF, then no-one would have been bitching about it. It's only because they DID release a manual option AFTER people had bought the digital download that some people felt a little perplexed.


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    • Post #: 12
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 6:57:34 PM   
    Marc von Martial


    Posts: 10875
    Joined: 1/4/2001
    From: Bonn, Germany
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

    ...Matrix have been as flexible as they can and now provide
    * Digital Download $30 - keeps the people that want the game immediately happy
  • Digital Download + Physical Shipment $40 - keeps the people happy who want to play it now and get the physical box sent to them
  • Digital Download + Physical Shipment + Manual $50 - keeps me happy




    • I think you got that part wrong

    It will be like this:

  • Digital Download - 39.99$
  • Boxed Version (incl. Box CD and manual) - 49.98 $
  • Digital Download + Boxed Version (incl. Box CD and manual) - 49.98$

    The base price of 39.99 serves as example. The boxed version is additional 9.99$ to the base price.

    < Message edited by Marc Schwanebeck -- 12/11/2006 7:27:38 PM >

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    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 7:16:41 PM   
    JudgeDredd


    Posts: 8573
    Joined: 11/14/2003
    From: Scotland
    Status: offline     		I stand corrected...even better customer service.

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    Post #: 14
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 7:28:52 PM   
    jimi3


    Posts: 151
    Joined: 7/4/2006
    From: Michigan
    Status: offline     		I would go with the digital download + boxed version (CD and manual) everytime. Great idea !!!

    (in reply to JudgeDredd)
    Post #: 15
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/11/2006 8:21:06 PM   
    Terl


    Posts: 609
    Joined: 6/1/2005
    From: Charleston, WV
    Status: offline     		I too am totally sold on digital downloads.  I burn my download as my backup and I am good to go.  I also like the downloaded versions as there is no cd to shove in the drive to play .  As for the manuals, I just go to Office Max and have them printed if I really need a printed copy. 

    (in reply to jimi3)
    Post #: 16
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/12/2006 12:29:04 AM   
    Trigger Happy


    Posts: 819
    Joined: 3/22/2004
    Status: offline     		The quickness of DD also has won me over. I can act on instant compulsion... before I think of what I just did with my 50$. The instant gratification that it gives makes me disarms my conscience before it can react. Less physical traces at home also means less guilty feelings and chance of regrets. Everyone's happier.

    _____________________________


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    Post #: 17
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/12/2006 2:35:58 AM   
    jchastain


    Posts: 2164
    Joined: 8/8/2003
    From: Marietta, GA
    Status: offline     		Digital downloads can be made available sooner and should be.

    Those choosing the box and manual should be allowed to buy and still download the game as soon as the DL is available - they shouldn't have to wait for the box to arrive to be able to play.  I shouldn't have to choose between getting it immediately or getting a manual.  That is a false choice.  I know it takes time to print and manufacture the physical pieces, but let me but and download the DD when available and let me specify I also want the box and manual and just ship it to me whenever it is available but don't make me wait till then to play.

    Everyone buys what they want.  Everyone gets access to what is available when it is available.

    (in reply to Trigger Happy)
    Post #: 18
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/13/2006 11:48:54 PM   
    Terminus


    Posts: 41459
    Joined: 4/23/2005
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline     		Downloads all the way. I'd never have been able to afford WitP if I'd had to pay P&P as well...

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    Post #: 19
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/14/2006 5:13:57 AM   
    ravinhood


    Posts: 3891
    Joined: 10/23/2003
    Status: offline     		I still stand behind my convictions, everyone and I mean everyone should have the choice of how they want to get the game AT THE SAME TIME. Digital AND physical (with overnight shipping if they wish to pay it). No one should get the benefit or advantage over another because they have DSL/Cable while another only has dialup. Every other game out there in mainstream tries to do it this way even on worldwide releases. They attempt to make ALL their customers happy for their own particular needs and reasons so no one is shouting unfair. It appears that only these sideboard publishers don't follow suit and countries like Russia gets TOW before the rest of us; a Battlefront title. Matrixgames releases digital download only, a week prior to physical release. HPS I'm not sure of, do they even offer a digital download feature? Shrapnel Games I don't think they have digital download either..not sure.

    All I see is the digital downloaders don't like it when things are on the opposite side of the fence. It just goes to show everyone wants their cake an eat it too. :)

    (in reply to Terminus)
    Post #: 20
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 12/15/2006 12:29:06 AM   
    JudgeDredd


    Posts: 8573
    Joined: 11/14/2003
    From: Scotland
    Status: offline     		Pardon me, ravinhood, but rollocks.

    There are many, many games which have a staggered release. Just look at GTR and GTR2...both released in Europe before America. OR NASCAR Sim Racing which wasn't even released in Europe!! Madden NFL released in America before UK....it happens everywhere...staggered releases happen all the time.

    Why would you possibly want to prevent people from having it sooner? What valid reason is there to prevent people from having DD when it's available as such? Why should people who simply want the game, burn it to a disk themselves, have no requirement for a box or manual be made to wait for disks and manuals to be printed?

    That's like saying "Yes sir....I know you want that car...but they haven't finalised installing the GPS system in the super dooper version, so you will have to wait until that's ready before you can purchase your budget one".

    What you suggest makes no sense at all...unless we were living in the dark ages - and we're not. We live in an age of 10Mb+ internet connections....where it takes minutes or hours rather than days to download a game.

    If a company can provide DD on completion of the final release candidate build, then people who want that should be able to have it....again...where's the valid reason for preventing them from doing so? It's their money. It's the companys choice. If people didn't want that "choice" then the DD wouldn't work, because no-one would download it. Contrary to what you think, DD is ALOT more popular than you think.

    I for one was a big fan of it. The only reason I won't be using it now is because, like you, I like my printed manuals...so I now see a benefit to waiting for the boxed version. Howver, unlike you, I don't want to punish the people that don't want a box or manual.




    < Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 12/15/2006 12:40:09 AM >

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    Post #: 21
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/6/2007 5:25:30 PM   
    sapper_astro

     

    Posts: 300
    Joined: 7/5/2005
    Status: offline     		Why not an option to download the game and purchase the printed manual at the same time? This will be sent out in the mail, while the game can be downloaded.

    I assume that many who download the game can burn it to disk and write down the serial number, but printing out some of these monster manuals is quite costly for the layman. Just a thought.

    (in reply to JudgeDredd)
    Post #: 22
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/7/2007 2:06:15 AM   
    e_barkmann


    Posts: 1307
    Joined: 4/18/2000
    From: Adelaide, Australia
    Status: offline
    definitely download first, I don't care about manuals, boxes or CD's - I can make my own once I have the download.

    Just gimme CC:COI NOW!!



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    Post #: 23
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/7/2007 2:26:23 AM   
    Big B

     

    Posts: 4870
    Joined: 6/1/2005
    From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
    Status: offline     		I see I am in the minority here, and I can see the economic sense of download first (or only), but I have bought many of your games - and I have never failed to download it immediately - and by the hard copy at the same time (I just don't have to await shipping that way).

    I hope you never take that away...

    B

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    Post #: 24
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/7/2007 6:38:48 AM   
    rhondabrwn


    Posts: 2570
    Joined: 9/29/2004
    From: Snowflake, Arizona
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

    Rhonda

    I've printed my manuals in the past, but as I've stated many, many times before, they are A4 clunky. I've tried sitting on the couch recently reading my massive Forge of Freedom and COTA manuals and I don't like it. They curl up at the edges, they get trashed...binders here there and everywhere. I cannot lie in my bed with a big folder, reading my latest game manual....just cannot do it.

    Besides....I like the smell of a new manual!



    Hmm... maybe you should buy a better grade of paper if they are "curling up at the edges"

    I spent part of my Christmas break printing up my FOF and StarShatter II manuals. I have them in a separate binders with an attractive cover and spine label that I created. I have tab dividers inserted for the different sections, including a "tips" section copied from the forums. I did the same for COG, including the copious supplemental materials that are available in the COG forum. I even printed out my "Campaigns on the Danube" manual and put that into the same binder with COG (made it my Napoleonic binder). StarShatter I and II are in the same binder with separate tab dividers. They are also in COLOR... aren't the Matrix manuals going to be black and white only? Or maybe that will be the next complaint

    Now... if I buy a manual, I don't have that kind of flexibility to customize it to my needs. A copy in a binder will also lay flat. In addition, my binder copy is full size for my tired old eyes, not a tiny box sized manual which is common these days. I bought the StarCraft Game Chest out of a bargain bin and it included the Primus guide... hah... the reprinted guide is so small that I need reading glasses AND a magnifying glass to even read the darn thing!

    There are definitely advantages to the "print your own manual" school of thought that haven't been discussed here.

    Ah, can't help you with your need for a "new manual smell" though. Do different game manuals smell different? COG smells like cognac? TOAW smells like dirty socks? For Liberty has the hint of home baked gingerbread?

    Hey Matrix... how about a "scratch and sniff" option for an additional 99 cents?

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    Post #: 25
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/7/2007 6:53:49 AM   
    TheHellPatrol


    Posts: 1588
    Joined: 7/3/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

    Besides....I like the smell of a new manual!

    Hey JudgeDredd, this is what i did(plastic coated)









    Attachment (2)

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    Post #: 26
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/7/2007 7:26:16 AM   
    Adam Parker


    Posts: 1848
    Joined: 4/2/2002
    From: Melbourne Australia
    Status: offline     		Mounted map boards!

    [Sorry. I went all retro for a moment]

    < Message edited by Adam Parker -- 1/7/2007 7:39:48 AM >

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    Post #: 27
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/7/2007 8:02:43 AM   
    sapper_astro

     

    Posts: 300
    Joined: 7/5/2005
    Status: offline     		Must be a lot of people here willing to shell out money on ink cartridges. It would cost me almost 30 dollars to print out some of the big manuals here, and thats for each one.

    (in reply to Adam Parker)
    Post #: 28
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/7/2007 1:58:21 PM   
    Marc von Martial


    Posts: 10875
    Joined: 1/4/2001
    From: Bonn, Germany
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sapper_astro

    Must be a lot of people here willing to shell out money on ink cartridges. It would cost me almost 30 dollars to print out some of the big manuals here, and thats for each one.


    You buy the wrong cartridges then. Check out refill kits.

    Anyway, since from 2007 on we will have printed manuals with each release you do not to print out anymore to have a hardcopy.

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    Post #: 29
    RE: How Would You Like To See Us Release Games - 1/8/2007 12:32:05 AM   
    rhondabrwn


    Posts: 2570
    Joined: 9/29/2004
    From: Snowflake, Arizona
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sapper_astro

    Must be a lot of people here willing to shell out money on ink cartridges. It would cost me almost 30 dollars to print out some of the big manuals here, and thats for each one.


    Inkjets do burn through a lot of ink, but my Epson R-300 costs me $52 for a set of all six cartridges (from Sam's Club). That loadout allowed me to print the entire manuals for FOF, Starshatter II, Campaigns on the Danube, about 60 printable DVD's (photo quality) and 30 8 x 10 glossy DVD covers plus assorted text printing. It's hard to calculate precisely, but the photo prints definitely use more ink so I would estimate that each of those manuals cost me less than $5 to print.

    And that is with Epson ink! I can buy generic cartridges for about $4.99 each which brings my "load" costs down to about $30 if I don't mind some occasional inkjet clogging and possible fading of photos over time. Since I have two printers, I use generic ink in one and premium ink for photos in the other.

    Now I used to have a Canon Bubblejet with the single three color cartridge and that was totally ridiculous with the color cartridge costing about $40 and then you had to replace the whole thing when one color ran out (and if you conserved... the dang thing dried up and wouldn't work at all).

    So, if it is really costing you that much in ink, then it's time to get a new printer. My new Epson R-380 was only $99 at Newegg and I've seen R-200's for as low as $79 (about the cost of the ink cartridges included with the printer). I like the Epson's because of their CD/DVD printing capabilties.

    One thing though, definitely get a printer with separate cartridges for each color ink and also check that generic cartridges are available (some manufacturers use proprietary chips that keep you dependent upon them for your ink and paying factory prices), Epson cartridges are clonable so alternatives are available to save you money.

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    My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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