Ron Saueracker
Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
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quote:
ORIGINAL: herwin
The historical rule of thumb was that land-based artillery was about four times as effective as the same number of guns afloat, and only a fool attacked a fort with a ship unless he had overwhelming superiority. Most of the mobile artillery in Hawaii was there as mobile backups to the emplaced guns, so it wasn't even as if it was untrained and unprepared for the mission. To take Lahaina, I suspect you would have needed three or four divisions in reality, with proportionate support. Remember also, the Hawaiian Division was the largest and best-trained division in the US Army in December 1941.
But the issue here has been that all guns, regardless of whether they are simple light mortars or 14" turret mounted CD emplacements, fire under the same parameters in the game. If anything, dedicated forts and CD units should have much more effective anti shipping ability than infantry support weapons so the accuracy/effectiveness of the routine could use a decrease. Also, only a percentage of guns should be able to fire vs a landing given that all guns are not at any one point geographically and are therefore not capable of defending the assault beach. Heck, this concept is in naval combat (ships in the same TF often don't take part in combat because of random factors...nothing more bizarre than having your BB flagship in the centre of the action inexplicably enter another dimension) so should really be part of land combat as well.
Recent example of one CD unit vs a massive naval force...
Update to 30th July 1942
Akyab, Burma
A large enemy TF wrecked havoc in residential quarters of Akyab on the 28th July, with a heavy night time bombardment. No military targets were hit. Many civilians were killed and maimed. BB's Royal Sovereign and Revenge were spotted at dawn, heading towards Chandpur. A flight of G4M1 (Bettys) recorded a number of 'probable' hits on the said vessels.
Kiska, Aluetians
In the early hours of the 29th, several large American TF's attacked Kiska. In an attack similar to the previous 20th July Allied disaster, many enemy vessels were sunk by brave gunners of the 17th Coastal gun battery. However, this time the enemy pressed forward, with scant regard to military casualties. Elements of at least an U.S. Army corps landed during the day, and encountered devastating fire from the small garrison. Thousands of dead American soldiers littered the beaches of Kiska but the reckless U.S. Army continued to feed troops into the meatgrinder. Undoubtedly the censored government mouthpiece American press will proclaim a victory in due course.
Bloody 'Kiska' details:-
Night casualties
817 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
MSW Quatsino, Shell hits 38, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Guysborough, Shell hits 35, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Kelowna, Shell hits 21, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Courtenay, Shell hits 22, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Lockeport, Shell hits 17, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Wasaga, Shell hits 42, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Bungaree, Shell hits 50, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Vireo, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Turkey, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Skylark, Shell hits 36, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Hopkins, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Hovey, Shell hits 48, on fire, heavy damage
APD Manley, Mine hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
Morning casualties
DMS Hopkins, Shell hits 379, on fire, heavy damage
APD Manley, Mine hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
APD Colhoun, Mine hits 1, on fire
DD Brooks, Mine hits 1
DD Monaghan, Mine hits 1
AP Westralia, Mine hits 1
DD Selfridge, Mine hits 1, on fire
DD Henley, Mine hits 1, on fire
AK Alcyone, Mine hits 2, on fire
AP J. Franklin Bell, Mine hits 2
AK Fomalhaut, Mine hits 1, on fire
AP Henderson, Mine hits 1
AP Royal T. Frank, Mine hits 1
AP Harris, Mine hits 1, on fire
AP Van Overstraten, Mine hits 1, on fire
Afternoon casualties
APD Colhoun, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 3
DD Clark, Shell hits 3, on fire
AP Van Neck, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Selfridge, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Alhena, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Henley, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Downes, Shell hits 12, on fire
AP President Madison, Shell hits 7, on fire
AP President Monroe, Shell hits 6, on fire
CL Concord, Shell hits 2
AP J. Franklin Bell, Shell hits 4, on fire
AP Harris, Shell hits 6, on fire
AP President Adams, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
DD Worden, Shell hits 5
AP Hunter Liggett, Shell hits 1
AP American Legion, Shell hits 3
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 1
Allied ground losses:
2448 casualties reported
Guns lost 7
< Message edited by Mike Dixon -- 11/14/2006 8:20:01 AM >
< Message edited by Ron Saueracker -- 12/12/2006 4:48:01 PM >
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  Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan
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Printable Version
Coastal Gun Fire Effectives—is outrageous! - 
However, you are not one of those guys who does not prep an assault with bombardments and does not place heavy warships in amphibious TFs are ya?
RE: Coastal Gun Fire Effectives—is outrageous! - 
RE: Coastal Gun Fire Effectives—is outrageous! - 
) gun at coastal defences - or least they've never hit anything. So other than as a bullet-sponge the New Mexico serves no purpose here.* 
) 
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