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Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/16/2007 8:35:04 PM   
Suribachi


Posts: 23
Joined: 1/16/2007
From: Upstate NY
Status: offline 		This game is fantastic - thoroughly enjoying it. But...........I cant tell you how many times I want to punch the screen when my troops quite frequently missunderstand their orders and look like a pinball bouncing off of the bumpers going all over the field of battle - enough is enough already! Am I missing something here? Too many tides of battle have turned due to this - cant be accurate.
Post #: 1
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/16/2007 8:44:09 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		That IS one of the more annoying aspects of the game. It can be countered in a few ways, but you're not alone in wanting to commit violence because of this...

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Post #: 2
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/16/2007 9:08:07 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		To be clear, are you talking about the orders misunderstood that causes a unit to move say a hex or two off course or are you talking about going out of command, which leads to units doing things on their own? Both are historical elements. Many ACW battles quickly went out of the control of the general. You have several ways of dealing with this:

1. Each turn, make sure to use the return to command button to get as many units as possible back in command.
2. Keep unit/division cohesion.
3. Turn off the "out of command" option when you setup your game.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/16/2007 11:51:49 PM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		(Assuming that you are indeed referring to misunderstood commands rather than units that have gone out of command:) Green units were more likely to misunderstand commands. As your units become more experienced, this will happen to them less often. So, this actually models history, and the frustration you feel is "historically accurate" frustration. This is actually one of the development team's favorite features!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 4
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/17/2007 4:19:16 PM   
ABridgeTooFar

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline 		What are we talking about for unit/division cohesion? Within how many hexes? I do try and keep division cohesion but sometimes they may get separated by two or three hexes.

BTW, although it is a pain in the you know what, I do like the fact that units can fall out of command. Very good feature.

< Message edited by ABridgeTooFar -- 1/17/2007 7:45:12 PM >

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 5
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/17/2007 5:04:02 PM   
Houtje

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		It can be frustrating, but I like it anyway, since it's the only way the game can simulate a major c*ck-up like the gap in the union lines during the battle of chickamauga. Btw, supply caissons seem to suffer more from misunderstandings than regular units; am I right in supposing that this is due to their low quality or disposition ?

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Post #: 6
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/17/2007 8:24:12 PM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		There is an issue with some of the caissons going too far forward. (This is being fixed in the next patch.) Could this be what you're referring to, or do you get messages that they've misunderstood commands?

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Post #: 7
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/17/2007 8:24:30 PM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		There is an issue with some of the caissons going too far forward. (This is being fixed in the next patch.) Could this be what you're referring to, or do you get messages that they've misunderstood commands?

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Post #: 8
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 12:26:24 AM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yes its historical that orders was misunderstood a lot of time during ACW.

It has many reasons one is poor quality maps and not every commander even had same version of the maps when commander A send order to commander B to deploy to forest. B sometimes had no idea that what forest commander A mend inside his mind and just went wandering around instead with his troops just looking enemy.

There are also events where commander A looks his outdated map and order commander B to defend forest when in reality there is no forest at all anymore etc. Then commander B go wandering attempting to find that invisible forest what A told him that there is forest so he must find it even when there is no forest witch can be found.


< Message edited by Jakerson -- 1/18/2007 2:24:40 AM >

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 9
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 12:51:19 AM   
rook749


Posts: 1105
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

There is an issue with some of the caissons going too far forward. (This is being fixed in the next patch.) Could this be what you're referring to, or do you get messages that they've misunderstood commands?


I do get messages that they've misunderstood commands more often then other other unit.

Rook

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 10
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 1:29:11 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		Okay, I've drawn to Eric's attention this pattern with the caissons.

As for misunderstanding orders, in some other thread Eric noted that he programmed detailed battle so that units would have less of a chance of going out of command if instructed to head for a specific terrain feature, such as a hill or town. In other words, if you tell a unit to go to a particular open terrain hex that is surrounded by identical hexes there will be a greater chance of the order being misunderstood than if you send that unit to a hill hex. (This might be mentioned in the manual, though perhaps not. Some things were left for players to discover.)

(in reply to rook749)
Post #: 11
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 1:46:04 AM   
Ironclad

 

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		It is in the manual that movement to named features, usually heights or villages has no chance of misinterpretation (Page 142, Misinterpreting Movement Orders, Landmarks)

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Post #: 12
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 1:51:32 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		Good to know. Thanks.

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Post #: 13
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 12:08:58 PM   
Houtje

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		must 've missed that in the manual; still, my issue with caissons was as rook749 described it: caissons getting misunderstood-messages more often than other units; but apparently this is being looked at. thanks.

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 14
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 7:02:33 PM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		Eric tells me that it is a unit's starting quality that is key here: caissons all start battle at 4.0, so they should misunderstand commands as often as any brigade that's at 4.0. So, to determine whether you are right about caissons being exceptionally bad at following commands, they must be compared to units around 4.0, not units that are much better (or much worse). The chances of misunderstanding an order are increased by several factors, including being shaken or disordered. It occurs to me that maybe when you play the AI or your opponent goes after caissons bigtime, making them more frequently shaken or disordered. Another possibility is that since having generals attached to a brigade gives a bonus to avoid misunderstanding commands from HQ (i.e., the player), and caissons can't have generals attached (as far as I know), the pattern might be caused by the role of generals. If you're playing with "More Generals" and have a bunch of them on the battlefield, this might explain it; but, if you have "Fewer Generals" then there might not be enough to make a difference.

(in reply to Houtje)
Post #: 15
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 7:34:40 PM   
Ironclad

 

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		You can attach a general to a caisson I have done it with my C in C but I suspect its not done that often so probably is one of the factors affecting quality comparisons with brigades.

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 16
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2007 9:35:44 PM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

You can attach a general to a caisson I have done it with my C in C but I suspect its not done that often so probably is one of the factors affecting quality comparisons with brigades.


Thanks! I didn't know you could do that.

I guess the only way of accurately testing whether caissons misunderstand commands too much would be to compare them to brigades with 4.0 quality that do not have attached generals. Such a test will probably show that there's no bug here, especially since the caissons use the same code that the other units do to make misunderstood-command checks.

(in reply to Ironclad)
Post #: 17
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/19/2007 12:40:42 PM   
Houtje

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		sounds like a good explanation; I've only played as the South so far (just started first North game), with 'Many Generals' and the South's generals are mostly pretty good as well. So I've had few misunderstood-messages, except for the caissons.

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 18
RE: Orders missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 1/19/2007 2:13:24 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Generals will misunderstand orders as well as non commanded units

I think the wagons may look to be going the wrong way more often then the troops, since they tend to move more, once in place, most troops stay in place, but the wagons get sent here and there as needed

short movements are easier for the unit to complete, long movements are easier to misunderstand

I would have to say, that I have not seen the wagons being more prone to misunderstanding then standard troops are

But....

I have more time with the system, so may move my units with the idea that they may misunderstand, so make my movements based on that (nothing like moving 3 hexes deeper then you want to, while out scouting for the bad guys)

I think it is just luck of the draw and it just stands out more when it happens to a wagon

but, we looking


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