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RE: The Home Front - 3/31/2007 5:38:46 PM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 2244
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Cross-training or did our intrepid heroes get requallified, CF?


Up to this point Hibiki has had 4 men on AA duty when they go to combat stations. With the refit, though, that number has jumped to 36 or more. They need to train up some new AA crews.


Guns dont come with crews?


That's an interesting thought. Did they increase the crew size of Hibiki when they added the extra AA guns? If so that would seem to make the ship even more crowded. Plus the need for extra food/water... Does anyone know if crew size increased in RL?


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(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 391
RE: The Home Front - 4/1/2007 10:14:20 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Cross-training or did our intrepid heroes get requallified, CF?


Up to this point Hibiki has had 4 men on AA duty when they go to combat stations. With the refit, though, that number has jumped to 36 or more. They need to train up some new AA crews.


Guns dont come with crews?


That's an interesting thought. Did they increase the crew size of Hibiki when they added the extra AA guns? If so that would seem to make the ship even more crowded. Plus the need for extra food/water... Does anyone know if crew size increased in RL?



While I am guessing in this case, I'm fairly confident that crew size would not increase. Japanese destroyers were crowded even with their normal crew complement. I don't think there would be space for another 32 crew. The strain on accomodations, fresh water supply (always a problem, by the way), etc. would simply be too great.

It would be interesting to hear from somebody with naval experience, though. If new equipment gets installed on a modern ship does it come with specialists or are existing crew trained to handle it? I know how they handle the situation where I work. Increase staff to cover the increased work? Not likely...

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 392
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:16:42 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 3, 1942

Location: Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 10
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

---

Excerpt from a letter to Seaman First Class Taiki Takahashi from his brother:






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 393
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:18:39 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 4, 1942

Location: Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 8
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

---

Breakfast in the forward mess aboard the Hibiki:

Shiro: You look cheerful this morning, Taiki. Still pleased at being named gun captain?

Taiki: Hm? Oh, no, it’s not that. I mean, I am pleased of course, but all it really means is more responsibility without the rank or increase in pay to go along with it. No, I heard from my brother. Natsumi is alive! It sounds like he’s hurt, though. I don’t know how bad, but he sounded okay in his letter.

Shiro: What happened, anyway? Did you get any more details?

Taiki: Not likely. The censor blotted out anything that resembled a detail about the battle.

Shiro: Ah. I know what you mean. I was talking to a guy who got a letter from his father, who is a Colonel stationed in Manchukuo. The censor blotted out all the nouns. The letter read like “..the…and…when he…if…I…” It’s silly. Do they really think there are American spies running around reading our mail?

Taiki: That really doesn’t seem likely. It would be far more likely that they are monitoring our radio broadcasts and such.

Shiro: It’s a good thing our codes are unbreakable, then.

Taiki: Yes, it really is.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 394
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:20:26 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 5, 1942

Location: Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 8
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

---

In the back room of a money lender’s establishment in Osaka:

Riku: You have the gold?

Money Lender: It is right here. *he brings out a small bag stamped ‘Bank of Manila’*

Riku: Very good. Here is the money.

Money Lender: And my cousin in Rabaul gets the distribution rights for the Solomon Islands, right?

Riku: Of course, as we agreed.

Money Lender: Good. Where will you keep the coins?

Riku: Right here. *Riku withdraws a money belt from under his uniform tunic. He opens the bag and begins slipping the coins into the belt.* This isn’t coming off until we get to Kwajalein.

Money Lender: *watches Riku heft the now heavy belt and begin putting it back on* I have one piece of advice for you while you wear that, my friend.

Riku: Oh? What is that?

Money Lender: Don’t fall overboard.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 395
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:21:53 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 6, 1942

Location: Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 6
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

---

Aboard the Hibiki the work is progressing well. The pounding of ball-peen hammers and rivet guns fills the air, and here and there can be seen the glare of acetylene torches. On the dock next to the ship are the new anti-aircraft guns, waiting for their platforms to be completed. On the stern the new depth charge thrower is already installed.

On deck Lieutenant Miharu accompanies Captain Ishii to the gangway. At the top the captain turns to face him..

Captain Ishii: You are in command now, Exec. Make sure that the braces on that aft AA platform are redone. And check with Chief Engineer Sakati, make certain that the boilers are…

Lieutenant Miharu: *briskly salutes* Yes sir. I relieve you. Enjoy your leave, sir.

Captain Ishii: And make sure…

Lieutenant Miharu: Of course, sir. It will all be completed, I promise.

Captain Ishii: *smiles* All right, all right, I am going. See you in a few days, Exec.

They exchange salutes and Captain Ishii departs down the gangway. Lieutenant Miharu turns and goes to talk to Chief Engineer Sakati about the boilers.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 396
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:22:55 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 7, 1942

Location: Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 4
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 397
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:23:15 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 8, 1942

Location: Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 3
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 398
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:24:38 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 9, 1942

Location: Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 1
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

---

Work on the ship is nearly completed. The dock workers are packing up their equipment, getting ready to work on a trio of destroyers due in a couple of days. Topside the ship smells of fresh paint. The new AA guns are installed and ready to face enemy planes.

In the radio room the radio operator monitors an official government broadcast. It announces the news that that the Americans have just suffered a crushing defeat off Espiritu Santo. Over a dozen of their warships have been sunk and the vaunted Second Marine Division has been virtually destroyed aboard their transports. The government announcer proudly says that the Emperor has declared a holiday in celebration of this decisive triumph.

The news spreads quickly throughout the ship. For a short time work almost comes to a halt, but word comes from Lieutenant Miharu that the captain will be back tomorrow and that anyone who thinks the news is reason not to have the ship ready for his inspection is sadly mistaken. Work resumes immediately.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 399
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:27:10 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 10, 1942

Location: Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 1
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

---

On the deck of the Hibiki:

Lieutenant Miharu: Welcome aboard, Captain.

Captain Ishii: Thank you, Exec. I relieve you.

Lieutenant Miharu: I stand relieved. Did you have a good visit with your family, sir?

Captain Ishii: Yes I did, thank you. It’s amazing how much the children have grown even since the start of the war. How is the ship?

Lieutenant Miharu: Ready to sail, sir.

Captain Ishii: Good. We have new orders. We sail tomorrow for Tokyo.

Lieutenant Miharu: Yes sir. And then?

Captain Ishii: We have been granted an honor, Exec. We have been assigned to escort the new flagship of the Combined Fleet as soon as she finishes sea trials in a few days.

Lieutenant Miharu: The Yamato, sir?

Captain Ishii: Indeed. Admiral Yamamoto is putting together a powerful battle group based around Yamato to spearhead the recapture of Wake Island.

Lieutenant Miharu: Well, it doesn’t sound dull, sir, that’s for certain. Better than escorting cripples or transports, at any rate. Would you like to inspect the ship?

Captain Ishii: Very much so. Lead the way, Lieutenant.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 400
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:38:17 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 11, 1942

Location: 50 miles southwest of Tokyo
Course: Northeast
Attached to: TF 17
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 439

Orders: Undergo refit and get back in war.

---

It is three o’clock in the morning, 80 miles off the coast of Japan. Hibiki is moving east. Chief Torpedo Officer Sugiyura has the bridge. On the port observation wing a lookout peers into the darkness. Suddenly he thinks he sees a faint phosphorescent feather in the water some distance off. It is trailing at an angle to most of the whitecaps and seems to persist between the swells. The lookout, as he is trained, looks away for a moment and then picks up the trace again in his peripheral vision. There is no doubt what he is looking at.

Lookout: Periscope! Periscope bearing 35 degrees to port, range 600 meters!

Lieutenant Sugiyura: Combat stations! Come about 35 degrees to port, speed to 30 knots! Gun crews, prepare to fire!

A klaxon goes off aboard the ship. Below decks Captain Ishii is out of his bunk and heading towards the bridge before he even realizes he is awake.

---

Aboard SS Gudgeon:

Captain Grenfell: It’s a destroyer, possible Fubuki class. Range is 600 meters, speed 24 knots. Load tubes three and four. John, get me a firing solution…wait. It’s coming about. Damn, we’ve been spotted. Dive, dive! Now!

---

Lieutenant Sugiyura: Where is it?

Lookout: Periscope is gone, sir.

Lieutenant Sugiyura: Damn. Sonar, do you have anything?

Sonar Operator: Nothing, sir.

Captain Ishii: What is it, Lieutenant?

Lieutenant Sugiyura: Submarine, Captain. But we’ve lost him. Should we slow to give the sonar a better chance?

Captain Ishii: I think…no. Unless we have some idea which direction it went we run too big a risk of setting ourselves up as a target. Maintain 30 knots and get us out of here. Resume a zig zag course towards Tokyo.

Lieutenant Sugiyura: Yes sir.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 401
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 5:31:17 PM   
princep01

 

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I'm nitpicking and might be wrong, but wouldn't a sub on war patrol have its torpedo tubes already loaded?  Maybe not flooded, but I'd think loaded.  Hummmmm....

Nothing wrong with hibiki's crew's night vision and training.  They were very good at that.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 402
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 7:07:02 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

I'm nitpicking and might be wrong, but wouldn't a sub on war patrol have its torpedo tubes already loaded? Maybe not flooded, but I'd think loaded. Hummmmm....


Subs typically didn't load their tubes until a target was sighted. Too much chance of something going wrong with torps in the tubes for long periods.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to princep01)
Post #: 403
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 7:19:25 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01
Nothing wrong with hibiki's crew's night vision and training.  They were very good at that.


Nothing wrong with the lookouts, but I'm betting that the acoustics guys are not exactly the most beloved bunch onboard right now.

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Post #: 404
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 8:26:33 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish
....

Riku: Very good. Here is the money.

Money Lender: And my cousin in Rabaul gets the distribution rights for the Solomon Islands, right?

Riku: Of course, as we agreed.

......



Brilliant! Sub-distributorships without telling corporate. That's thinking outside the box! It might even be a new paradigm.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 405
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:18:59 PM   
princep01

 

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

I'm nitpicking and might be wrong, but wouldn't a sub on war patrol have its torpedo tubes already loaded? Maybe not flooded, but I'd think loaded. Hummmmm....


Subs typically didn't load their tubes until a target was sighted. Too much chance of something going wrong with torps in the tubes for long periods.

Chez


Well shiver me timbers. I would have thought they would load them to avoid the noise of loading them. But, perhaps that is a rather silent prodedure. Thanks, I stand corrected,

As to the sonar dudes...well, they were traveling at speed (24 knots) so they cannot be fairly spanked too hard.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 406
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:48:24 PM   
alaviner


Posts: 764
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline 		I am relying on shaky memory here but I think the depth setting for the torp had to be set before loading it in the tube. 

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Post #: 407
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/1/2007 10:59:29 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

As to the sonar dudes...well, they were traveling at speed (24 knots) so they cannot be fairly spanked too hard.


Very true. Most Japanese destroyers of this period had both active and passive sonar, but the quality left a lot to be desired. The active sonar was reasonably effective, especially at lower speeds, but the passive sonar was of such poor quality it was almost worthless unless the destroyer was stopped, something Japanese ship captains were reluctant to do.

(in reply to princep01)
Post #: 408
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/2/2007 2:37:06 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		Escort to the Yamato? Now we're talking!

Any chance of a "historical excerpt" to explain what happened to the 2nd Marines?

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(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 409
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/2/2007 3:32:02 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I think it would be nice to have a summary of what is happening in the war about twice per month just so we can get a better perspective.

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Post #: 410
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/2/2007 3:42:15 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		That would sort of go against the feel of the AAR, being that it's showing the Hibiki's perspective in the war. I think Cuttlefish should continue as he's been doing...

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Post #: 411
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/2/2007 3:44:48 AM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That would sort of go against the feel of the AAR, being that it's showing the Hibiki's perspective in the war. I think Cuttlefish should continue as he's been doing...


I'm with T on this one. The limited perspective makes me feel more like I'm one of the crew.

_____________________________


Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 412
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/2/2007 4:01:15 AM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline 		Nevermind. Redundant post.





< Message edited by AU Tiger -- 4/2/2007 4:02:11 AM >

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Tho. Jackson

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 413
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/2/2007 4:31:32 AM   
alaviner


Posts: 764
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That would sort of go against the feel of the AAR, being that it's showing the Hibiki's perspective in the war. I think Cuttlefish should continue as he's been doing...

I agree T - I have not read the entire AAR yet but I like this unique perspective


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Post #: 414
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/2/2007 5:00:29 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That would sort of go against the feel of the AAR, being that it's showing the Hibiki's perspective in the war. I think Cuttlefish should continue as he's been doing...


I agree that too much info would be "out of character" for this great AAR, but I'd also be curious to hear how the 2nd MarDiv bought it.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 415
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/2/2007 5:02:02 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

As to the sonar dudes...well, they were traveling at speed (24 knots) so they cannot be fairly spanked too hard.


Very true. Most Japanese destroyers of this period had both active and passive sonar, but the quality left a lot to be desired. The active sonar was reasonably effective, especially at lower speeds, but the passive sonar was of such poor quality it was almost worthless unless the destroyer was stopped, something Japanese ship captains were reluctant to do.


Interesting note. That said, it makes me wonder if being a Japanese DD captain, and knowing the weaknesses in his sonar if Capt. Ishii would not have been just as glad to hightail it out of there as track the contact.


_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 416
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/3/2007 8:06:27 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		The AAR will maintain its somewhat limited point of view. I have to admit, though, it is sometimes a real temptation to go beyond the boundaries I have set and show more of what is happening elsewhere in the war.

As for the Second Marine Division, remember that what the Japanese government announces and what really happened are sometimes wildly different. For more information on the Battle of Efate read on...

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 417
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/3/2007 8:10:16 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 12, 1942

Location: Tokyo
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 433

Orders: Wait at Tokyo Bay for new task force to assemble.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 418
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/3/2007 8:13:03 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 13, 1942

Location: Tokyo
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 433

Orders: Wait at Tokyo Bay for new task force to assemble.

---

It is midafternoon. Hibiki is anchored in Tokyo Bay when four ships enter the bay and make their way past the destroyer. Three of the ships are destroyers, nothing exceptional about them, but word quickly spreads about the fourth ship. By the time it passes Hibiki the destroyer's rail is lined with gawkers. The ship's officers would send the crew back to their stations, but they themselves are too busy looking.

Yamato steams slowly and majestically past. It is a beautiful ship, the embodiment of Japanese naval might. Hibiki's crew are awed by the ship's size and by the power embodied in her clean, graceful lines.

It is a moment of immense pride for everyone aboard. Someone on the foredeck begins to sing Umi Yukaba, the Japanese naval anthem, and within seconds the entire crew is singing:

Across the sea, corpses in the water
Across the mountain, corpses in the field
I shall die only for the Emperor
I shall never look back

Yamato proceeds on into the harbor and drops anchor.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 419
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/3/2007 8:13:31 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		May 14, 1942

Location: Tokyo
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 433

Orders: Wait at Tokyo Bay for new task force to assemble.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 420
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