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RE: Small Ship, Big War

 
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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/5/2009 2:24:37 AM   
DW

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

I would agree with you, but...I have found at times that it almost feels as though some of the characters in this story have minds of their own. They insist on saying and doing things other than what I had planned for them. I know it sounds strange, but that's how it seems sometimes.


Kurt Vonnegut said the same thing...


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4441
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/5/2009 4:16:29 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

I have found at times that it almost feels as though some of the characters in this story have minds of their own. They insist on saying and doing things other than what I had planned for them. I know it sounds strange, but that's how it seems sometimes.


Not strange at all. Many a writer, amateur and professional, has encountered the same phenomenon. (I remember a fanfiction author who added a postscript to her story: "Whoa -- that ended up darker than I intended".)

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4442
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/5/2009 6:40:05 AM   
thegreatwent


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From: Denver, CO
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quote:

I would agree with you, but...I have found at times that it almost feels as though some of the characters in this story have minds of their own. They insist on saying and doing things other than what I had planned for them. I know it sounds strange, but that's how it seems sometimes.


Many writers and artists mention having a muse that shapes their work. I am a fan of your creation CF and encourage you to follow your muse. That may be difficult as the war draws to a close but I will read on to the end. Once again thanks for the effort.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4443
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/6/2009 5:38:10 AM   
kaleun

 

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quote:

I would agree with you, but...I have found at times that it almost feels as though some of the characters in this story have minds of their own. They insist on saying and doing things other than what I had planned for them. I know it sounds strange, but that's how it seems sometimes.


Yep, sounds familiar.

_____________________________

Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to thegreatwent)
Post #: 4444
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/6/2009 7:59:16 AM   
jonreb31


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From: Santa Cruz, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish


quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Mama Shun and all of the other characters will do exactly what CF tells them to do, proving that the pen is indeed mightier than the sword.


I would agree with you, but...I have found at times that it almost feels as though some of the characters in this story have minds of their own. They insist on saying and doing things other than what I had planned for them. I know it sounds strange, but that's how it seems sometimes.


Wow! I'd definitely say this is a trait of a great writer. I spent hours this night reading about 1/3 of this AAR-- and it's the absolute best. This is the best AAR on the forum and probably some of the best reading material I've had in awhile.


_____________________________


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Post #: 4445
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/6/2009 8:11:06 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonReb


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish


quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Mama Shun and all of the other characters will do exactly what CF tells them to do, proving that the pen is indeed mightier than the sword.


I would agree with you, but...I have found at times that it almost feels as though some of the characters in this story have minds of their own. They insist on saying and doing things other than what I had planned for them. I know it sounds strange, but that's how it seems sometimes.


Wow! I'd definitely say this is a trait of a great writer. I spent hours this night reading about 1/3 of this AAR-- and it's the absolute best. This is the best AAR on the forum and probably some of the best reading material I've had in awhile.



I agree. I've found that as my characters 'develop' they become less of what I had first imagined them, but far more robust and...alive. I personally think it is inevitable, the characters grow on you, even the writer. And its because of the personal attatchment that you find the characters will grow outside of their original concept.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to jonreb31)
Post #: 4446
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/6/2009 9:12:28 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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March 21, 1945

Location: Inch'on
Course: None
Attached to: None
Mission: Disbanded in port
System Damage: 1
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Await further orders

---

All around the harbor at Inch’on ships are on the move. Amid the sudden bustle of activity Captain Ishii climbs up onto the bridge and gives orders for the anchor to be weighed and for the ship to get ready to get underway.

“Do not get your hopes up,” he tells Lieutenant Sugiyura, who is looking at him with a glint of eagerness in his eye. “We are not heading out to meet the enemy. All we are doing is moving to a berth. All of the warships in here are spreading out and trying to look like harmless merchantmen or something.”

“That’s going to be quite a trick, sir,” says Sugiyura, looking across the water at the massive and ungainly Mutsu. “What is going on?”

“Enemy carriers have entered the East China Sea,” says Ishii. “Shipping there is under attack. We are one day’s easy sail from being hit in port again, if they realize we are here.”

“They dare?” says Sugiyura, aghast. If enemy carriers can enter the East China Sea with impunity then they can go anywhere. “Why have our planes not attacked them?”

“Because the enemy force has no doubt been mistaken for a sightseeing tour!” snaps Ishii. He sighs. “I am sorry, Sugiyura. I am sure we would attack them if we could, but our air force…well, I am not sure how much of it is left. If we have not struck back at such an incursion it is because we cannot. It is a bitter thing, but there it is.”

“I see, sir,” says the torpedo officer. “My apologies. I spoke out of turn.”

“With luck the carriers are there to cover the invasion fleet and will not roam about too much,” says Ishii. “But we must be prepared for an air attack at any time. Please tell Lieutenant Kuwaki to see to his guns and plan accordingly.”

“Yes sir,” says Sugiyura. He hesitates before leaving, then says “Sir, do you think there is any chance we will be sent out to attack the carriers?”

“A chance?” says Ishii. “Yes. These are desperate times, Lieutenant, and they may well call for taking desperate chances. If not this time, then very likely another. We will see.”

Lieutenant Sugiyura salutes and leaves to find the gunnery officer. The sound of chain rattling through the hawsepipe reaches the bridge. Captain Ishii clasps his hands behind his back and watches as the anchors are winched aboard.




(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4447
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/6/2009 11:26:12 PM   
tocaff


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CF you're doing an excellent job of conveying the hopelessness hanging over the Japanese at this point in time.  In any other culture, unless ruled by a madman, Germany, a peace would've already been sought. 

Your writing has gone from good to better to great as you've grown with your characters.  I start to understand your experience writing this story and how it grows on you as I am doing an AAR too.  You are one of the inspirations for me to do some research and try to make it an interesting read, though I won't reach your lofty standards.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4448
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/7/2009 5:05:25 AM   
kaleun

 

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quote:

Your writing has gone from good to better to great as you've grown with your characters. I start to understand your experience writing this story and how it grows on you as I am doing an AAR too. You are one of the inspirations for me to do some research and try to make it an interesting read, though I won't reach your lofty standards.


I think CF may be the reason many of us might decide not to do AARs in the future.
It would be too embarrassing.

God this AAR is good.

_____________________________

Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 4449
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/9/2009 2:41:42 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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March 22, 1945

Location: Inch'on
Course: None
Attached to: None
Mission: Disbanded in port
System Damage: 1
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Await further orders

---

Taiki, Riku, and Shiro go ashore for a while to look around Inch’on. None of them have been to Korea before. They find the city to be typical of ports everywhere in many ways, but there are enough differences from Japan to make things interesting. The Koreans themselves are friendly and polite, but the three friends find it hard to judge whether they are like this all the time or whether people are reacting to their uniforms. They do seem to note a certain amount of deference, perhaps even fear, in the local’s attitude towards them.

In the early afternoon they walk along the waterfront and come to an area where around one hundred men are busy digging a series of slit trenches. Stakes indicate where other pits and trenches are going to go. All the workers are Koreans, and they are attended by a handful of bored Kempeitai. The Kempei are standing around smoking or talking. As the Hibiki crewmen stand there looking over the scene their leader, a sergeant, comes over to talk to them. The man carries himself with a bit of a swagger but he is young and his face soft with too much food and too little work. He greets Taiki cordially enough.

“It looks like there are going to be some strong fortifications here,” Taiki comments. The sergeant shrugs.

“Maybe,” he says. “If we ever get any concrete. Personally I think it’s just busy work.” He gestures out over the harbor. “Even if someone wanted to invade this cruddy little backwater they’d have trouble. I don’t need to tell you sailor-boys about the current in the channel, there are seawalls everywhere, and what isn’t marsh is hills. No, no one is ever going to want to invade this place.”

Nearby a group of Koreans are taking a break, passing a bucket of water and a dipper around. One of them says something in Korean and points out over the water. The others nod.

The Kempei sergeant’s jaw tightens. He strides over to the speaker and casually backhands him across the mouth, splitting the Korean’s lower lip.

“Speak Japanese,” he snaps. The Korean bobs his head and looks down.

“I apologize,” he says in Japanese. The sergeant comes back over to join Taiki and the others.

“It’s policy,” he explains to them. “Those who work for us must speak Japanese. One day, in fact, Japanese will be the only language spoken in the Co-Prosperity Sphere.”

The three friends exchange glances. It isn’t the casual brutality that bothers them – they all endured worse than that during basic training – it’s the man’s appalling lack of understanding. They have seen this before with military men who have no experience in the battle zone. They do not seem to know, or cannot believe, that the war has already been lost. Instead they speak as if the Japanese are simply retrenching before launching fresh offensives that will sweep away the enemy. It is a divorce from reality so stark that there is no reasoning with it.

The crewmen do not even try. They instead take polite farewells and continue their walk. Behind them the sergeant barks an order and the sound of shovels biting into the earth resumes.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4450
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/9/2009 7:16:39 AM   
Durbik


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quote:

No, no one is ever going to want to invade this place


:D

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obey the fist!

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Post #: 4451
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/9/2009 3:08:34 PM   
tocaff


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I think that the AAR CF is treating us to will not discourage people from doing one of their own in the future, rather it will spur us to do better in our own attempts.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to Durbik)
Post #: 4452
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/9/2009 4:04:45 PM   
John 3rd


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Every AAR has its own flavor and I have to admit that this one has spurred me to put more 'people having conversations' into mine.  It is far harder writing then the other AAR styles.  CF does masterful work.


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Post #: 4453
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/9/2009 10:33:17 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

They do not seem to know, or cannot believe, that the war has already been lost. Instead they speak as if the Japanese are simply retrenching before launching fresh offensives that will sweep away the enemy. It is a divorce from reality so stark that there is no reasoning with it.


Hmm. That's a sea change from what I remember. From the previous shipboard conversations, the officers had realized that the Allies would eventually overwhelm them, but it hadn't quite trickled down to the enlisted men. Or maybe no one dares speak of defeat on board the Hibiki with Shun around?

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4454
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/10/2009 2:18:58 AM   
Shark7


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“Maybe,” he says. “If we ever get any concrete. Personally I think it’s just busy work.” He gestures out over the harbor. “Even if someone wanted to invade this cruddy little backwater they’d have trouble. I don’t need to tell you sailor-boys about the current in the channel, there are seawalls everywhere, and what isn’t marsh is hills. No, no one is ever going to want to invade this place.”

I'm guessing he never met Doug, huh?

For those that don't recognize what I'm talking about, MacArthur did bring an invasion fleet into In'chon during the Korean War...with great success. In fact the invasion of In'chon resulting in reversing the course of the Korean War.

_____________________________

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'When in doubt...attack!'

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Post #: 4455
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/10/2009 2:52:49 AM   
DW

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Every AAR has its own flavor and I have to admit that this one has spurred me to put more 'people having conversations' into mine.  It is far harder writing then the other AAR styles.  CF does masterful work.



When I discovered this AAR, I read Cuttlefish's description of what he was going to do and almost moved on to the next one.

But, curiosity made me read the first couple of entries and after that I spent almost all my free time to two straight days reading the entire thing. I was seriously bummed when I got current and realized that I was going to have to wait for the next entry.

Cuttlefish should call himself "Cuttlefisherman".

He keeps hooking us and reeling us in like we're trout.




(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 4456
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/10/2009 3:25:45 AM   
Feinder


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quote:

I was seriously bummed when I got current and realized that I was going to have to wait for the next entry.


Welcome the private hell that rest of us Hibiki addicts live in.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to DW)
Post #: 4457
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/11/2009 9:18:46 PM   
kaleun

 

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Bump!

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

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Post #: 4458
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 6:04:07 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

They do not seem to know, or cannot believe, that the war has already been lost. Instead they speak as if the Japanese are simply retrenching before launching fresh offensives that will sweep away the enemy. It is a divorce from reality so stark that there is no reasoning with it.


Hmm. That's a sea change from what I remember. From the previous shipboard conversations, the officers had realized that the Allies would eventually overwhelm them, but it hadn't quite trickled down to the enlisted men. Or maybe no one dares speak of defeat on board the Hibiki with Shun around?


I would say that by this time there is almost no one aboard Hibiki who does not know that the war is hopeless. They have seen too much to believe otherwise. But they don't talk about it, at least not yet. They are conditioned by pride, by honor, and by the fear of seeming "defeatist" against admitting it openly.

By the way, you have an "I told you so" coming. From a post a couple of pages back:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

If I were the Americans, I might decide to seize Amami Oshima and starve out Okinawa. (Granny Shun's probably worth an extra battalion.)


Which brings us to the next entry...


(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 4459
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 6:05:43 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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March 23, 1945

Location: Inch'on
Course: None
Attached to: None
Mission: Disbanded in port
System Damage: 1
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Await further orders

---

Amami Oshima is a beautiful place. The subtropical island is famous in Japan for its long, sandy beaches and striking vegetation. Even though the war has brought to the island a regiment of Japanese soldiers and the support troops for a modest airfield the rugged hills and miles of mangrove swamps make the island one of the most scenic in the Ryukyus, or anywhere else.

This morning, however, the scenic tranquility is shattered by an hours-long bombardment. In its wake the famous beaches are swarmed by American marines and infantry. These soldiers quickly establish several beachheads and columns begin driving towards the airfield, the only location on the island defended in any real strength. It will take some days of hard fighting but the outcome, barring some kind of Japanese intervention, is foregone; Amami, only 200 nautical miles from Kagoshima, will soon be in Allied hands.

Out in the East China Sea enemy aircraft carriers continue to patrol. As night falls a sizeable number of them head for the Korea Strait and the Sea of Japan beyond. The move is detected and leads to a night of worry in Japanese-held ports throughout the region. Among other things, this could put American carrier planes within striking distance of every port in Korea – including Inch’on.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4460
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 11:31:53 AM   
tocaff


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This is where the value of a good opponent shines.  Japan is lost and virtually helpless before the Allied juggernaught, yet CF soldiers on.  Kudos to you for that CF.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4461
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 6:37:50 PM   
kaleun

 

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Yes. Good opponents are worth their weight in gold.

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

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Post #: 4462
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 7:58:29 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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March 24, 1945

Location: Inch'on
Course: None
Attached to: None
Mission: Disbanded in port
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Await further orders

---

The lack of a Japanese response to their boldest carrier incursion of the war encourages the Allies. Their carrier groups spread out, seeking prey. And they find it, here and there, in small convoys and ASW groups that were caught out of port. These ships have been scurrying away from the carriers that are suddenly roaming around in what used to be safe waters and not all of them make it. More than a few are hunted down and destroyed by the relentless carrier planes.

But the slaughter does mean that the umbrella of air cover over the carrier groups thins a bit. Escort carriers are left to cover the landings at Amami and early in the morning on the 24th they come under sudden and concentrated attack by G4M2 bombers flying out of Nagasaki. The bombers are escorted by experienced A6M5 daitai recently recalled from garrison duty on Mindanao. The fighters do their job effectively enough that a number of bombers break through.

Three escort carriers each suffer a single torpedo hit. All manage to control the damage and begin to retire towards Guam under their own power but it seems that the Japanese tiger might still have a few teeth left after all.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4463
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 8:00:26 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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March 25, 1945

Location: Inch'on
Course: None
Attached to: None
Mission: Disbanded in port
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Await further orders

---

Shiro Kuramata stumbles back into his hammock after yet another air raid alert. He has gotten to the point where he can make it to his combat station in the forward 25mm gun tub without really waking up. More than once, in fact, he has found himself in position, checking the ready ammunition, without remembering how he got there.

So far all the alerts have been false ones. The Americans seem intent on attacking targets on the open sea and have not yet sent any scouting missions over Inch’on. Right now Shiro does not really care if they attack or not. Let them come, he thinks muzzily, as long as they do it after he has had some more sleep.

But it seems as though he has only just dropped off again when he is awakened by an insistent hand shaking his shoulder.

“Wake up, Great-Grandfather,” says Riku, shaking him again. “Please wake up, it is time to eat.”

“What?” says Shiro, opening his eyes. “What is it, Ariga?”

Standing in front of him is his great-grandson, Jomei. Jomei is a good boy, but what is he doing aboard Hibiki? Shiro blinks in confusion.

Jomei smiles. “Mother says to tell you that she has made octopus dumplings, your favorite,” he says. He speaks loudly and clearly. He knows that Shiro does not hear very well, not any more, and since reading the book Shiro wrote long ago he knows why; the roar of the 25mm gun his great-grandfather manned was excessively loud, even by the standards of the time.

“She says that if you do not come to dinner soon she will feed your share to the koi,” continues Jomei. Shiro blinks. Ah, yes, this is not Hibiki, this is his house in Tendo. The threat about the koi is a jest but he knows that as the eldest member of the family no one will eat until he has been served. Best to get a move on, then, and not keep everyone waiting.

Jomei assists him out of the rocking chair. Shiro smiles gratefully at him.

“Were you dreaming about the war again, Great-Grandfather?” Jomei asks. Shiro nods.

“Yes,” he says. “I…I was back at Inch’on, I think. Yes, it was Inch’on.”

“I remember reading that part in your book,” says Jomei. “It must have been very exciting!”

“Exciting?” says Shiro. He halts his shuffling pace and looks up at Jomei. Up? When did the boy get so tall, he wonders. “Perhaps it seems that way, if you were not there. I think that before I tell you any more war stories you and I need to take a trip, Jomei-san.”

“A trip, sir?” says Jomei, his eyes alight with interest.

Shiro nods. “Yes indeed,” he says. “I will speak with your mother about it after dinner. I have not been there in too long myself.”

“Where?” says Jomei, somehow managing to bounce in place while standing still. “Where are we going?”

“Yasukuni,” says Shiro to his great-grandson. “We will go to Yasukuni Shrine.”


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4464
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 8:05:36 PM   
Hornblower


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Well done, Man, well done..

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4465
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 8:24:57 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

“Yasukuni,” says Shiro to his great-grandson. “We will go to Yasukuni Shrine.”


Ohboy. That would be the one with the war criminals, that Japanese Prime Ministers cause controversy by visiting.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4466
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 9:45:31 PM   
Feinder


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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
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quote:

Shiro Kuramata stumbles back into his hammock after yet another air raid alert. He has gotten to the point where he can make it to his combat station in the forward 25mm gun tub without really waking up. More than once, in fact, he has found himself in position, checking the ready ammunition, without remembering how he got there.

So far all the alerts have been false ones. The Americans seem intent on attacking targets on the open sea and have not yet sent any scouting missions over Inch’on. Right now Shiro does not really care if they attack or not. Let them come, he thinks muzzily, as long as they do it after he has had some more sleep.

But it seems as though he has only just dropped off again when he is awakened by an insistent hand shaking his shoulder.

“Wake up, Great-Grandfather,” says Riku, shaking him again. “Please wake up, it is time to eat.”



Very well done CF.

While it makes an excellent twist in reading, it struck chord with me, that you perhaps may have observed first-hand the gradual "blurring" of reality with our elders (and sometimes much too quickly), esp regarding tramatic war experiences.

In my own Grandfather's case, fortunately it was more gradual, and only became an issue in his final days (at least that we were aware of). He would wake, thinking he was still on Guadalcanal; or sadly the line of dreaming and nightmares and waking were, well, sadly no lines at all. I'm sure my Grandfather had episodes over the previous years that, like Shiro, he kept to himself.

Anyway. It must certainly been a hard thing for our elders to have lived thru. And if you are the obvserver seeing that pain, it hard for the observer as well; to know that your loved one is in pain that has lingered for 60 years, that continues to afflict, and in fact grows in intensity as the lines blur.

Regards to CF, to those afflicted, and tho those who care for the afflicted.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4467
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/12/2009 9:54:00 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
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We are getting prepared for the final chapter. Shiro will remember his fallen comrades...

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 4468
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/13/2009 2:12:04 AM   
T Rav

 

Posts: 387
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline
Feinder,

CF has the way with words. He channels the lonely GI stationed far from home and getting a random thanks from a school kid (my reference 6 months ago). To channeling you and your reference as grandson to a veteran. Countless other references as well.

Amazing stuff.

Best regards to you and your Grandfather,
T Rav

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 4469
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 5/13/2009 11:34:54 AM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
brilliant, sent shivers down my spine... I can't wait and yet somehow don't want to read the next few installments...

(in reply to T Rav)
Post #: 4470
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