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RE: Small Ship, Big War

 
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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/22/2009 9:24:11 AM   
SireChaos

 

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I think one of the Unryu class CVs at the Battle of Iwo Jima wasn´t explicitly stated to be sunk or have survived, as were Shoho and Zuiho. Can we assume these to be either sunk or too damaged to be back in action before the war ends?

Similarly, we know three Unryu class CV took part in Iwo Jima, and Ikoma is active now - what about the other two of the six in the database? Have they been completed?

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4801
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/23/2009 4:00:31 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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May 30, 1945

Location: 50 miles northwest of Etoforu Jima
Course: West
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Surface combat
System Damage: 3
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 346

Orders: Conduct training maneuvers in the Kuriles

---

Lieutenant Sugiyura is pacing back and forth in the officer’s wardroom. The small area does not give him much room, so the wardroom’s only other occupant, Lieutenant Sakati, hears a constant repetition of pace-pace-pace-turn as he tries to read. Finally the chief engineer looks up from his manual.

“Sit down, Sugiyura, won’t you?” he says. “You’re making me tired, lad.” Sugiyura stops pacing but does not move to sit down.

“I am sorry,” he says. “But there was a battle! Other destroyers sank three enemy battleships while were skulking about here in the Kuriles!”

Sakati leans back. “You do know,” he says gently, “that none of those destroyers came back?” Sugiyura grips the back of an empty chair and leans forward.

“What of that?” he says. “Our lives belong the Emperor. What better end could we ask for than to die while dealing the enemy a grievous blow?’

Sakati shrugs. “I am of our captain’s mind in this,” he says. “Ishii believes in striving for victory rather than glorious defeat.”

“I know that; I’ve heard him say so more than once. And I am not saying he is wrong. But what kind of real victory can we hope to win at this point?”

“One never knows,” Sakati says placidly. “But don’t fret, lad. We’ll be committed to battle soon enough, I’m sure. Until then, try to relax.”

“I will try,” says Sugiyura. “If only to be prepared when battle does come. But you know how I long to put some of my torpedoes into an enemy battleship, Sakati.”

“Not to worry,” says Sakati. “I very much doubt, lad, that the enemy will run out of battleships any time soon.”


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4802
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/23/2009 7:19:38 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

“I am sorry,” he says. “But there was a battle! Other destroyers sank three enemy battleships while were skulking about here in the Kuriles!”
Sakati leans back. “You do know,” he says gently, “that none of those destroyers came back?”


Sounds like Tokyo Rose has been doing the usual exaggerating. Personally, I would rather have the Japanese destroyers back than Oklahoma -- she wasn't exactly the best even of the pre-war American BB's. And Exeter was a fair trade for the Chokai.

_____________________________

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Post #: 4803
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/25/2009 7:42:30 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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May 31, 1945

Location: 40 miles northeast of Wakkanai
Course: Southwest
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Surface combat
System Damage: 4
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 311

Orders: Conduct training maneuvers in the Kuriles

---

The Korea Strait is only about 200 kilometers wide. Both the southern tip of the Korean peninsula and northern Kyushu have many airfields. This means that any Allied ship in the strait is, at most, about twenty minutes flying time from multiple Japanese bases.

Many Allied ships are in the strait and more are arriving every day. The Allied fast carriers have fanned out into the Sea of Japan to screen the strait from surface attack. With the airfield on Tsushima Island not yet ready for flight operations the task of screening these ships falls to numerous escort carriers. The harried crews of these small flattops quickly come up with a new name for the Korea Strait. They call it Hell’s Alley.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4804
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/25/2009 7:44:46 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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June 1, 1945

Location: Wakkanai
Course: Docked
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Surface combat
System Damage: 4
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: See below

---

Fuel gushes through the hoses that, along with several stout mooring lines, link Hibiki to the pier. Captain Ishii stands watching the operation for a moment and then turns and walks back onto the bridge. Lieutenant Sugiyura stands there talking to Lieutenant Kuwaki and there is an eager gleam in his eyes. He salutes as the captain approaches.

“Kuwaki has just told me of our orders, sir,” he says. “We are going hunting?”

“That’s right, Lieutenant,” Ishii says. “Enemy carrier forces have taken up position in the western Sea of Japan. We are going to wander over that way and perhaps pay them a visit.” The gleam in Sugiyura’s eyes increases.

“It could be another Malacca Strait!” he says. He is referring to the now famous night action earlier in the year, when battleships Fuso and Nagato intercepted the Royal Navy carriers covering the British landings at Alor Star and sank or heavily damaged four of them.

“We will see,” says Ishii placidly. “Certainly that is the idea. We will leave tonight, so see that your sections are ready.”

Kuwaki nods. “They will be, sir!” says Sugiyura. He salutes again and leaves quickly, a spring in his step. Ishii watches him go.

“He is a good officer,” he murmurs, “but I wish he would show a little more enthusiasm.” Kuwaki smiles a little but says nothing.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4805
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/25/2009 8:24:39 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Location: Wakkanai
Course: Docked
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Surface combat
System Damage: 4
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475


Tsk, tsk. Hibiki's system damage has actually increased. A tongue-lashing is in order for Chief Engineer Sakati.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 4806
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/26/2009 9:49:28 AM   
SireChaos

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Location: Wakkanai
Course: Docked
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Surface combat
System Damage: 4
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475


Tsk, tsk. Hibiki's system damage has actually increased. A tongue-lashing is in order for Chief Engineer Sakati.


Sakati probably figures that, if Hibiki looks old and worn-out enough, the Allied ships and bombers will not concentrate their fire on her so much.

Good luck, Hibiki; you´re going to need it.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 4807
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/26/2009 7:56:20 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock


Tsk, tsk. Hibiki's system damage has actually increased. A tongue-lashing is in order for Chief Engineer Sakati.


Repair yards and ARs are beginning to become rare commodities for the Japanese and the ones available, such as at Ominato, are absolutely clogged. I think we can give Sakati a break, considering that the slowly mounting system damage probably reflects a real shortage of facilities, spare parts, and time on berth.

I think we can accurately picture Hibiki at this point with her flanks streaked with rust, her hull somewhat fouled, and with a host of slowly mounting failures in non-critical systems. But her three Kampon boilers still continue to provide the engines with power (though she may be making more smoke than Ishii likes) and the weapons are all well-maintained and ready. Which is just as well, because the destroyer faces action ahead and there is no real prospect for repairs any time in the foreseeable future.

_____________________________


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Post #: 4808
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/26/2009 8:05:02 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

I think one of the Unryu class CVs at the Battle of Iwo Jima wasn´t explicitly stated to be sunk or have survived, as were Shoho and Zuiho. Can we assume these to be either sunk or too damaged to be back in action before the war ends?

Similarly, we know three Unryu class CV took part in Iwo Jima, and Ikoma is active now - what about the other two of the six in the database? Have they been completed?


The last two Unryu-class, Kasagi and Aso, have yet to be completed. Given that Japanese heavy industry has been devasted by bombing attacks they may or may not ever be finished. As far as Shoho and Zuiho, well, if they haven't been seen by Hibiki or mentioned elsewhere one has to assume the worst.



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Post #: 4809
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/26/2009 8:07:28 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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June 2, 1945

Location: 240 miles west of Wakkanai
Course: West
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Bobmardment
System Damage: 4
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 439

Orders: Bombard Tshushima Island

---


Even as Yamamoto’s ships steam west Japanese plans change abruptly. Overnight the American carriers have departed the Sea of Japan, slipping through the Tsushima Strait by night and heading towards Okinawa. With them go most of the enemy surface forces. While the reason for this withdrawal is unclear the Japanese see an opportunity and determine to take it, though the risks are high. New plans are delivered to the task force by float plane.

In due course Ishii receives his share of the orders. They consist of a list of targets and coordinates on Tsushima Island. Ishii hands the list to Kuwaki without comment. Kuwaki studies them silently. If he thinks that now would be a good time to have his two missing 5” guns back he does not say so.

The task force picks up speed. The Japanese window of opportunity, if indeed it is anything but illusion, is likely to be very small. Yamamoto’s twenty-one ships race across the Sea of Japan towards Tsushima Island.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4810
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/26/2009 8:21:27 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

In due course Ishii receives his share of the orders. They consist of a list of targets and coordinates on Tsushima Island. Ishii hands the list to Kuwaki without comment. Kuwaki studies them silently. If he thinks that now would be a good time to have his two missing 5” guns back he does not say so.


Sugiyura, on the other hand, may be more vocal. There will be no opportunity to put torpedoes into an enemy battleship this time.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 4811
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/26/2009 8:58:02 PM   
nashvillen


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The rust on the hull will be the least of their worries in the near future.

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Post #: 4812
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/27/2009 11:31:52 AM   
1275psi

 

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Its nice to escape the noise of AE -and come and read the Good stuff.

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Post #: 4813
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/27/2009 12:47:12 PM   
Mike Solli


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CF, a few weeks ago, I decided to reread this AAR.  I try to spend some of my lunch hour reading it and am back to page 107.  Absolutely wonderful. 

By the way, fingers are crossed for this mission.

Thanks.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 4814
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/27/2009 12:47:13 PM   
Mike Solli


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CF, a few weeks ago, I decided to reread this AAR.  I try to spend some of my lunch hour reading it and am back to page 107.  Absolutely wonderful. 

By the way, fingers are crossed for this mission.

Thanks.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 4815
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/27/2009 12:47:13 PM   
Mike Solli


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Oops, double post.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 8/27/2009 12:48:08 PM >


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Post #: 4816
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/27/2009 7:32:16 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
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June 3, 1945

Location: 180 miles north-northeast of Matsue
Course: West
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Bobmardment
System Damage: 4
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 403

Orders: Bombard Tshushima Island

---

Taiki sits on his bunk and writes a letter to Sayumi. Soon he will get some sleep, as tonight promises to be busy, but for now he is determined to finish the letter. Not that the letter says anything profound or important. Mostly it’s that writing it makes him feel as though he is talking to her.

Poor Ariga no longer frets outwardly for his wife. He has drawn in on himself, though, and is silent much more often than he used to be. That business with the Captain’s sword gave him something else to think about for a few days but that was an exception. I imagine he feels, as many of us do, that the prospect of battle is a relief. The reality of danger is in some ways better than constant fear.

Taiki stops writing and considers for a moment. He becomes aware of the thrum of the engines, driving Hibiki tirelessly toward Tsushima, and the motion of the ship in the light swell. So far their foray across the Sea of Japan seems to have been undetected. This coming afternoon will be the real time of danger, of course. Assuming they are not intercepted by enemy ships or planes they will arrive at Tsushima Island just a few hours after nightfall. Not that he can mention any of this to Sayumi, of course.

He reads what he has written so far and decides that it sounds too negative. It is time for something a little lighter.

Not that all is nerves and worry aboard ship, of course. There was a great deal of laughter just a couple of days ago when Benzaiten dropped out of a ventilation shaft onto Ensign Konada. He screamed as if struck with an axe but she just twined down him to the floor and slithered away.

He has told Sayumi about Benzaiten and the crew’s belief that she is the ship’s good luck charm. He could tell Sayumi did not take him entirely seriously. That’s all right. Taiki did not used to take it seriously either but ever since that strange experience at the shrine on Enoshima he has not been so sure. Perhaps when the war is over he will take Sayumi there.

And of course we are kept busy trying to keep the ship in good repair. There is also time for other activities. I have been sparring with Lieutenant Sugiyura and several others early in the morning and there is always time for a game of cards or two, and if we are in port many of the men go ashore in search of amusement.

Hm. Sayumi knows sailors well enough that she might take that the wrong way. Or worse still, the right way. It is time for some reassurance.

I mostly stay aboard ship, of course. I have become quite experienced with the radars under my care, which is well because they try to break down almost constantly. I have some ideas for improving the design. But what I mainly do is think of you. Sometimes it almost seems as though you are with me. And in truth you are not far away, not in kilometers, though the disruptions of the war make even that distance a formidable barrier.

He yawns. It is time to sleep. He finishes the letter, his pen scratching out the Japanese characters with as much care as he can muster given the movement of the ship.

I have written my brother and my parents. Please continue to look out for all of them for me. I worry about them all, especially Noboru. Being crippled as he is must be very hard for him. But he is a determined man and, given time, I think he will become determined to overcome what has happened. It will be easier for him once the war ends and he can begin to see that he did his part in it with honor.

Taiki concludes the letter and puts it away. He will mail it when they return to port. The young sailor stretches out on the tatami mat that serves the bunk as a mattress and relaxes. It is not that the eve of battle no longer holds any terror for him; quite the contrary. But he has learned, as every veteran campaigner has learned from the time of Alexander to the present, that one rests when one can. He closes his eyes and is quickly asleep.



(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4817
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/27/2009 10:12:54 PM   
tocaff


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Yep the letter home and sleep.  Isn't it great that you can develop the ability to fall asleep on a bed of nails in the middle of almost any situation when you have to?  The down side is that you can also develop the ability to awaken at the smallest noise that's out of the ordinary.

_____________________________

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
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Post #: 4818
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/28/2009 6:18:30 AM   
1275psi

 

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The one noise guarranteed to get me out of my Bunk in a hurry was always the sudden lack of noise...........

Hope Hibiki makes it!

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Post #: 4819
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/28/2009 11:22:00 AM   
ChezDaJez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

The one noise guarranteed to get me out of my Bunk in a hurry was always the sudden lack of noise...........

Hope Hibiki makes it!



Yeah, especially if you were an aircrewman!

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

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Post #: 4820
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/28/2009 12:59:24 PM   
tocaff


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...a snapping branch, sudden flight of birds, the lack of sound (scariest of all), etc.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 4821
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/28/2009 6:15:03 PM   
SireChaos

 

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Speaking of silence, suddenly I have to think of the scene in the original Star Wars movie, when the first batch of fighters are racing down the trench on the Death Star, and all of the sudden the laser turrets stop firing...

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Post #: 4822
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/28/2009 8:19:34 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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June 4, 1945

Location: 140 miles north of Kyoto
Course: East
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Surface combat
System Damage: 5
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 147

Orders: Return to Hakodate

---

Everything is quiet as the Japanese ships approach Tsushima Island. Rear Admiral Yamamoto brings his ships in from the northeast, intending to pass through the western channel and then loop around the island and return to the Sea of Japan through the Tsushima Strait. Every gun is manned and ready as they near their target but no ships are seen, no flares burst overhead. Radar shows only the long, dark bulk of the island itself.

It seems almost beyond belief that the waters around the island, which even two days ago were crowded with enemy ships, are really this deserted. It would be almost reassuring if they were to encounter a flotilla of enemy destroyers or something. It would make it feel less like a trap. But the Japanese have come with a job to do and, trap or not, they intend to carry it out. Yamamoto gives the order and in the darkness his ship’s guns train towards the island.

---

It is no trap. For one night only Tsushima has been left uncovered as Allied surface and carrier forces rearm and prepare for the next phase of Operation Longbow. Just that afternoon the airstrip on the island had been declared operational and the first planes, a squadron of Marine Corsairs and a group of PBYs, had arrived. By tomorrow morning, according to plan, the search planes would be fanning out over the Sea of Japan and the Corsairs would be providing air cover over the strait.

That is the plan, anyway.

---

Fire. Correct. Reload. Fire again. Hibiki’s crew performs this dance with the efficiency of long practice, every man knowing his job and doing it well. Captain Ishii looks towards the island, peering through his binoculars at the chaos they are wreaking.

Numerous fires burn in the darkness and the thick columns of smoke that boil upwards are tinged orange and red underneath. All around comes the rumble of naval gunfire as twenty-one ships fling shells at their designated targets. The task force has rounded the island and is now proceeding up the eastern side, creating havoc as they go. There has been no enemy response; no warships, no torpedo boats, no return gunfire.

Suddenly a spike of flame erupts from the island’s southern end, rising several hundred feet into the air. A moment a titanic rumble fragments the night, momentarily drowning out the lesser roar of gunfire. Through the binoculars Ishii can see huge chunks of debris flung skyward, illuminated by fire. An ammunition dump, almost certainly. Not Hibiki’s work but still quite a sight. Ishii permits himself a grim smile and carefully does not think of what it would be like to be near the chain of explosions that continue to erupt.

Ishii knows that the spectacle of such a bombardment, especially at night, is often not matched by the actual results. Still, he thinks that the enemy is going to feel the effects of this night’s work. The Japanese had excellent information about where to place their shells and many of the fires he can see burn fiercely, fueled by more than just wood.

The Japanese ships clear the island, their guns at last falling silent. Turrets train back to center line as the ships pick up speed, racing into the Sea of Japan with the goal of placing as many miles as possible between themselves and the destruction they have caused. Behind them the island burns.

---

In this case results match appearances. The attack on Tsushima Island will prove to be the most effective Japanese naval bombardment of the war. Allied casualties are very heavy. What remains of the newly arrived aircraft are simply bulldozed into a pile. American engineers count no fewer than 153 shell craters on the airstrip alone.

Within two days the destroyed supplies can be replenished, the airfield repaired, and the destroyed planes replaced. But the two days that the Japanese ships have bought will prove to be critical, the beginning of a chain of events with far-reaching consequences.

---

None of this is known or even guessed by Hibiki’s crew, of course. Aboard the destroyer tired men sleep while others stand watch, scrutinizing sky and sea for sign of the enemy. Chief Engineer Sakati frets over his engines, strained by the sustained high speed. Hibiki and the rest of Yamamoto’s ships are ordered to make for Hakodate, where they are to take on fuel and ammunition and receive new orders.



< Message edited by Cuttlefish -- 8/31/2009 7:55:10 PM >

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Post #: 4823
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/28/2009 8:31:09 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

The attack on Tsushima Island will prove to be the most effective Japanese naval bombardment of the war. Allied casualties are very heavy.


Impressive, considering the IJN had more big-gun ships available earlier in the war. (Never underestimate the power of heavy cruisers.) Allied HQ must be kicking itself over that 12-hour window. . .

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 4824
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/29/2009 8:01:25 AM   
Alikchi2

 

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Oooh, good foreshadowing. Still loving this.

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Post #: 4825
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/31/2009 7:40:01 PM   
SireChaos

 

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Bump. Come on, Cuttlefish, don´t leave us hanging.

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Post #: 4826
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/31/2009 7:53:56 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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June 5, 1945

Location: Hakodate
Course: None
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Surface combat
System Damage: 5
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Refuel and rearm

---

“The boilers need to be scaled, sir,” says Lieutenant Sakati, “and the pipes cleaned. Add the fouling on the hull and our top speed is probably down two or three knots.” Captain Ishii nods.

“There’s no help for that,” he says. “We’re heading back out tomorrow. I don’t think we will have a chance to fix any of those problems any time soon. Just keep those engines going and give me as much power as you can when I call for it.”

“Yes sir,” says Sakati. “That I can do. Where is the mission, sir, if I may ask?” Ishii gives a slight shrug.

“I have no idea,” he says. “We are headed back west. I can’t believe bombarding the island would work again, so we are probably up to something else. We will just have to wait and see what the Imperial Navy’s plan is.”

“Yes sir,” says Sakati phlegmatically. Ishii knows that Sakati’s indifference isn’t feigned; of all his officers the chief engineer is always the least concerned about where they are going or what they are doing. His focus is always on making sure they get there, wherever there is.

Sakati moves off to check on the refueling and Ishii goes to make sure that the loading and storing of the 5” shells is going smoothly. They have limited berth time; there are a lot of ships to be replenished today and the harbor facilities here are modest. By this time tomorrow Yamamoto wants his task force back out in the Sea of Japan.



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Post #: 4827
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 8/31/2009 9:41:38 PM   
SireChaos

 

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Domo arigato, Cuttlefish-sama.

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Post #: 4828
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 9/1/2009 1:11:45 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

“We are headed back west. I can’t believe bombarding the island would work again, so we are probably up to something else. We will just have to wait and see what the Imperial Navy’s plan is.”


I remember repeated bombardment runs ealier in the game, but this time the Allies have more assets to respond with. Could it be that Hibiki will find herself hunting the replacement supplies the Allies now need to send?

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4829
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 9/1/2009 10:40:29 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
June 6, 1945

Location: 150 miles north of Kanazawa
Course: West
Attached to: TF 21
Mission: Surface combat
System Damage: 5
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 439

Orders: Unknown

---

The following is an excerpt from the forum for Grid Games' "Conflict in the Pacific: the War Against Japan 1941-1945." Reproduced with the permission of Grid Games. Note that only the first page is presented; the final five pages of the thread, which mostly involve a debate about which tank was superior, the Sherman or the Panther, are not included.

Author's note: any resemblance between the posters depicted herein and posters on this forum is purely coincidental. And I hope that all of these coincidences will be received in the spirit of affection with which they are rendered.




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(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 4830
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