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The new artillery system ... - 2/10/2007 10:40:56 AM   
DBeves

 

Posts: 403
Joined: 7/29/2002
Status: offline 		Is it just me that misses the DB system for shifts being applied for artillery. when it was originaly touted that artillery would have the ability to cause step losses by themselves I presumed this would be for non combat bombardments (and counterbattery)and the old system of odds shifts would b in place still for close combat in battlefront speak...

This is a much poorer representation I think ...

1. The arty is reduced in power now ... shifts usually made the difference between a bad attack odd and a good one - a true reflection of arty power.
2. As far as I can tell there is now no defender arty support ... I have lost count of the number of times I've read accounts of how vital arty could be to defensive siuations
3.Artillery seems no longer to be able to interdict
4. The shifts not only represented the power of artillery but of the the immediate disruptive and mental effects of a bombardment before the assault went in - not possible now

I never really had a problem wih the old arty system - counter battery is good



Post #: 1
RE: The new artillery system ... - 2/10/2007 4:23:15 PM   
BlackSunshine


Posts: 366
Joined: 11/22/2002
Status: offline 		Yes, I wish the game could have both systems. I love the new system, and I like the old, but both would be better!

(in reply to DBeves)
Post #: 2
RE: The new artillery system ... - 2/10/2007 5:55:00 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		I like the new system better. I haven't played much in recent years tho. With the new it forces you to prepare the battlefield and not just launch attacks supported by artillery. I do think there should be dedicated attack artillery support with some limitations.

(in reply to BlackSunshine)
Post #: 3
RE: The new artillery system ... - 2/10/2007 5:56:51 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		On the subject of artillery- when a ship attempts to bombard a hex and the hex has a soldier symbol with the red circle and line through it- does that mean it is to close to friendly troops to execute the action?

(in reply to blastpop)
Post #: 4
RE: The new artillery system ... - 2/10/2007 6:09:04 PM   
JSS

 

Posts: 781
Joined: 10/15/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop

On the subject of artillery- when a ship attempts to bombard a hex and the hex has a soldier symbol with the red circle and line through it- does that mean it is to close to friendly troops to execute the action?


Yes. The other reason you cannot fire on a hex is the per hex bombardment limit... its a black artillery piece with a circle/slash then.

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Post #: 5
RE: The new artillery system ... - 2/10/2007 6:09:10 PM   
jeffthewookiee


Posts: 84
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		I personally like the ability to use artillery independently of ground attacks. I think it's more realistic than only being able to use artillery in conjunction with a major attack. Although I suppose to be fair, the previous series were Divisional/Regimental scale so artillery attacks might not have been significant enough to warrant independent use.

In any case, you can still use artillery with your attack this way... you just see the effects in step losses and strongpoint destruction instead of in shifts.


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Post #: 6
RE: The new artillery system ... - 2/10/2007 9:48:43 PM   
TheHellPatrol


Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I LOVE the new system as it makes me think ergo: I use my Arty more effectively. With the old system i would all too often use the MAX. button to get overruns or because i was lazy. The new system is much more rewarding...it's awesome.

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(in reply to jeffthewookiee)
Post #: 7
RE: The new artillery system ... - 7/10/2007 10:16:00 PM   
MengCiao

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffthewookiee

I personally like the ability to use artillery independently of ground attacks. I think it's more realistic than only being able to use artillery in conjunction with a major attack. Although I suppose to be fair, the previous series were Divisional/Regimental scale so artillery attacks might not have been significant enough to warrant independent use.

In any case, you can still use artillery with your attack this way... you just see the effects in step losses and strongpoint destruction instead of in shifts.



I also find it more satisfying to use artillery as a separate attack. It increases the drama, makes for unexpected exploitations and so on...ie makes the battles more fluid and entertaining. I'm going to build me some mortar units if I make any scenarios of my own, though. Maybe shift the scale to 500 meters and have 2 hex direct fire machine guns and so forth.


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(in reply to jeffthewookiee)
Post #: 8
RE: The new artillery system ... - 7/20/2007 4:42:18 PM   
Gregor_SSG


Posts: 681
Joined: 3/6/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Is it just me that misses the DB system for shifts being applied for artillery. when it was originaly touted that artillery would have the ability to cause step losses by themselves I presumed this would be for non combat bombardments (and counterbattery)and the old system of odds shifts would b in place still for close combat in battlefront speak...

This is a much poorer representation I think ...

1. The arty is reduced in power now ... shifts usually made the difference between a bad attack odd and a good one - a true reflection of arty power.
2. As far as I can tell there is now no defender arty support ... I have lost count of the number of times I've read accounts of how vital arty could be to defensive siuations
3.Artillery seems no longer to be able to interdict
4. The shifts not only represented the power of artillery but of the the immediate disruptive and mental effects of a bombardment before the assault went in - not possible now

I never really had a problem wih the old arty system - counter battery is good






We made the changes to the artillery system because of the change in game scale, and we think that they are a more appropriate reflection of events at the Battlefront scale. I'll try to give an explanation nof our reasoning.

1. Artillery can still make a big difference, but perhaps not all in one combat resolution as it could in the DB system. Causing a step loss can definitely affect the odds. Also, if the defender can be induced to retreat, then they will lose their entrenchment and usually be much more vulnerable to artillery fire in their retreat hex. This should really be thought of as part of the same combat when thinking about artillery effects.

2. Defender artillery support is not modelled as it was in the DB system, but it was usually limited there to 1 shift for the defender, which usually didn't make a big difference. In DB the defender gets to shoot at the attacker as they advance, unintrenched, to contact and also gets to shoot at them, again advantageously, if they advance after combat into new ground. It's fine to force a guy out of a hex but if he can cause you a couple of step losses on top of any attacker losses from the CRT, then the attacker will definitely feel the power of artillery in defence.

3. We didn't feel it was appropriate for artillery interdiction at this scale.

4. Each step loss from artillery adds one to the retreat chance of a defender if attacked in the same turn, so the demoralisation factor is definitely accounted for.

Also, the changes to the supply system now force a player to be much more selective in their use of artillery. If you want to make an offensive push, then you will need to have built up artillery supply beforehand, otherwise you'll run out of artillery support just when you need it most. Likewises the defender you have some hard choices to make. I find this part of the game very exciting and very realistic.

Gregor



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(in reply to DBeves)
Post #: 9
RE: The new artillery system ... - 8/2/2007 3:13:55 AM   
flintlock

 

Posts: 358
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG


Also, the changes to the supply system now force a player to be much more selective in their use of artillery. If you want to make an offensive push, then you will need to have built up artillery supply beforehand, otherwise you'll run out of artillery support just when you need it most. Likewises the defender you have some hard choices to make. I find this part of the game very exciting and very realistic.


I'm a big fan of the supply system design and implementation within Battlefront. It certainly adds a lot to the gameplay and overall experience. Very well done indeed.

(in reply to Gregor_SSG)
Post #: 10
RE: The new artillery system ... - 8/2/2007 7:11:18 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Yes its a great game!

I am slowly appreciating every aspect of the game.  Some are somewhat subtle but lead to victory

-






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Post #: 11
RE: The new artillery system ... - 8/2/2007 4:29:27 PM   
hank

 

Posts: 623
Joined: 8/24/2003
From: west tn
Status: offline 		A question:
From a defensive standpoint, does a defender's artillery help the defender any in resolving the attack? 

I started reading this away from my gaming 'puter and can't check this out ... but I don't recall noticing whether the defense gets any help from their artillery when attacked.  But I could be wrong ... thus the ?. A risky question it is ... i could be sorry for asking it.  



< Message edited by hank -- 8/2/2007 4:30:27 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: The new artillery system ... - 8/2/2007 5:26:13 PM   
flintlock

 

Posts: 358
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hank

A question:
From a defensive standpoint, does a defender's artillery help the defender any in resolving the attack?

Artillery usually has a defense value, albeit quite small (self-propelled guns fair a little better). You also have the direct defense rating where the artillery unit can cause a step loss to the attacker when attacked (purple dice). Indirectly you could also consider the counter battery chance.

(in reply to hank)
Post #: 13
RE: The new artillery system ... - 8/3/2007 2:54:04 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		When you attack the enemy with artillery, if the enemy is entrenched, you require 2 dice to destroy a step. When it is not entrenched you only require one dice.

When an enemy advances to make an attack, he is no longer entrenched. So, in your turn, you can attack his troops with your artillery and you only require one dice



quote:

ORIGINAL: hank
From a defensive standpoint, does a defender's artillery help the defender any in resolving the attack?


So the answer is “no”. But it is represented in a subtle way when your artillery attacks his non – entrenched attacking troops – some of which might be down to their last step
-


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Post #: 14
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