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Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/20/2007 8:43:02 PM   
quixian

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		Since I've had so much success with a 3-4 defensive playbook made by a community member, I figured I'd ask here if anyone has a pretty solid 4-3 defensive playbook out there on FBMax.com or elsewhere.

I tried downloading one a few days back, but it might have been created using the previous version of PDS because the linebackers don't react to the outside run whatsoever.

The 3-4 defense that I've used works well against the run (depending on playcall and personnel matchups, of course), but I've yet to find a 4-3 that works against the outside run in particular. Thanks in advance to anyone who might be able to point me in the right direction.
Post #: 1
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/21/2007 4:48:03 AM   
Charlie19341


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2007
From: Exton, PA
Status: offline 		Where can I get the 3-4 playbook that you mention? I would like to try it, as I am new to the game!

_____________________________

~ Charlie

(in reply to quixian)
Post #: 2
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/21/2007 5:14:04 AM   
Deft

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline 		I think he is talking about mine:

http://www.blindsideblitz.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246516&postcount=15

(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 3
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/21/2007 7:20:39 PM   
Charlie19341


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2007
From: Exton, PA
Status: offline 		Interesting website...thanks for the tip!

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~ Charlie

(in reply to Deft)
Post #: 4
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/21/2007 9:06:12 PM   
quixian

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, Deft's the author of the 3-4 defensive playbook I've been using.  It works better than most of the 4-3 defenses out there that I've been experimenting with. 

Really, the outside rush issues are more of a nitpicky thing at this point.  There are a handful of user-made power run sets that make the outside run difficult for most defense plays I've tinkered with.  I've parsed the most overly effective plays from my offensive playbook as a result and and am getting more realistic rushing statistics thanks in part to the more "controlled" running plays.

I've been messing with increasing the speed of the linebackers as well, and so far that hasn't caused any problems in either the running or passing game for the CPU or myself.  It's been a more realistic experience as a result - blitzing LBs have been forcing more bad throws, causing more incompletions due to missing the target, instead of being tipped by a defender.  The LBs are now also blowing up the occasional run in the backfield, which helps the RB YPC average go down to more real-world levels.

Of course, I'm planning on going back to the drawing board and re-testing everything after the 3.5 update drops, but for now I'm having some realistic, fun games.


(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 5
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/21/2007 9:44:38 PM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Have you tried my pro style playbooks, 2 use a 34 defense and 2 use a 43.  Im waiting until the next release to get back to work updating these.  I have created additional defensive plays that are primarily for stopping outside runs, but they are not in the current version available at FBmax.

(in reply to quixian)
Post #: 6
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/21/2007 9:59:27 PM   
Charlie19341


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2007
From: Exton, PA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the feedback guys!

_____________________________

~ Charlie

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 7
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 2:58:59 AM   
quixian

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		I just found nmleague's playbooks on FBMax and will give those a look too as I hadn't tried those yet.  Thanks for the heads up!

(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 8
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 4:10:37 AM   
quixian

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I've run some more tests using nmleague's 4-3 playbooks and a few others earlier and can't really say that the issue is with the 4-3 play designs.  The 3-4 seems to simply put defenders a bit further back downfield and spread the field more than the 4-3 schemes.  I've noticed the same relatively slow recognition of the outside running plays by defenders in both the 3 man and 4 man front defensive schemes.  Some of nmleague's motion and power running plays were more than adequate to test the defenses' outside run-stopping mettle. (There's a Pro Twin power play that gives to the fullback to run off tackle that is just PUNISHING on the D)

My tests have me feeling comfortable that the 4-3 tends to be more vulnerable to the big play on the outside only due to the player positioning being more compact overall, so by the time the back takes the handoff, then accelerates and turns upfield, they don't have the best pursuit angles to cut a back down quickly.  The converse, of course, is that if you spread the field too much, you increase your vulnerability to the runs up the gut.

I'm hoping to see nmleague's plays designed to stop the outside run show up sometime in the future.  I'm still in the learning stages with the PDS myself, so working with others' plays for now are helping me understand how to best approach my play designs in the future.  In the meantime, I'll keep up some testing as it seems that I'm onto something with the linebacker speed ratings making a significant difference in the defense's effectiveness.

(in reply to quixian)
Post #: 9
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 4:27:43 AM   
Charlie19341


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2007
From: Exton, PA
Status: offline 		Quixian, I have yet to try and download any plays from any website, but I would like to try when I get home from my trip.  Into what folder do you download such plays, and how do you get to them from the PDS screen?

_____________________________

~ Charlie

(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 10
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 4:38:39 AM   
quixian

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		There are two ways that I know of to set up downloaded playbooks in MaxFB:

1.  Once you download the file, if the folder name starts with "Playbook_Export_" (for example, Playbook_Export_11Man) then you can just go into the external Utility set and select Create New Playbook, then Import Playbook to import the Playbook Export into your new book.

2.  Or, you can just copy and paste the plays and playbooks from inside the folder within the downloaded zip archive to C:\Matrix Games\Maximum-Football\Plays.

Then, all you will need to do is start up MaxFB, go to League Game, select a team to edit, and assign the new playbook to each team you want to try out with the new playbook.  Maybe there's a faster/better way than I just detailed, but there you go!

(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 11
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 4:48:48 AM   
Charlie19341


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2007
From: Exton, PA
Status: offline 		Cool!  I will try that, and maybe we will even get some other ideas how to do this from other readers that might benefit both of us!  Thanks for the info.

_____________________________

~ Charlie

(in reply to quixian)
Post #: 12
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 5:14:22 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Just as a note, I think most outside runs do real well vs man to man defenses.  The CB move with the R and dont react quick enough and come up and support outside.  When Im playing the game, on running situations I will use zone defenses.  The additional defenses that I created are kind of hybrid defenses that in effect try to place a man in a zone outside zone on at least one side.  Also I have tried having the CB play m2m on the outside recievers and giving the S "react" logic, this has been pretty successful, they are lined up about 10 yards deep about equal with the TE, they really fly to the ball once it is handed off.

Im lookng forward to the next release with the DL, LB and DB broken out in to postions. That along with the ability to create our own zones will open up a great deal of flexibity to stop running plays.  My offenses seem to be pretty solid so I will just completely redo the defense.

(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 13
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 5:18:15 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Another thing I just saw mentioned, is to adjust the speed of defensive players.  In anther thread I posted how I have ajusted the speed ranges for players.  Most NFL LB are almost as fast as RB and many DL also have great speed, so I moved their ranges up a fair amount.

Also for my game I have edit the data constants file giving the defense faster reaction time.

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 14
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 6:34:07 AM   
quixian

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		nmleague - thanks for the info about the speed range adjustments you made.  I found what seems to be your latest list in the "skill attributes" thread at the bottom of the page.  I'll have to try working with those myself.  Having already modified some of the data constants myself to improve defense reaction time and tackling, not to mention the ongoing playbook testing - ultimately I'm still looking at ways to juice up the run defense a bit in the game.  Can't say as I'm unhappy with the game, rather I think I'm just trying to make things as challenging as possible while keeping up the fun factor.

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 15
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 3:55:31 PM   
Deft

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline 		nmleague, are you planning on updating your playbooks?  It would be nice if we could get your latest.

(in reply to quixian)
Post #: 16
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 4:21:57 PM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		I would update them but I have been so busy the past two months that except for a few special run stopping defenses for both the 34 and 43 I havent done much.  I havent changed the zone coverage since the change to adjustable zones, and now with the changes to the player positions I have put everything on hold until they are in place, since they will impact defense much more than offense.  My plan is to completely redo my defenses.

That said, maybe I could just put the new defensive plays that I have done in a zip folder and upload that to FBmax, then people can put those plalys in the plays folder and edit the playbooks to add them.  If anyone is interested in that I will try to do that tonight.

(in reply to Deft)
Post #: 17
RE: Good 4-3 Playbooks? - 2/22/2007 9:03:38 PM   
quixian

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		nmleague - I, for one, am interested in your latest playbooks.  If you have time in the near future, please do upload them to FBMax.  Thanks!

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 18
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