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Confused about draft, profiles - 3/3/2007 5:22:13 PM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		I'm trying to set up draft profiles for an NFL style league with 53 man rosters. I'm finding the whole process very confusing.

If the roster is set to 53, why is the maximum draft length only 35 rounds? I tried altering one of the 45 man profiles (which doesn't make sense since the draft can only be a max of 35 rounds) to a 53 man profile, doing nothing more than changing the rounds and roster size in the text file to 53 and each team drafted 35 QBs.

All I did was change this
Maximum Football Team Profile File
Rounds:50
RosterSize:45

to
Maximum Football Team Profile File
Rounds:53
RosterSize:53


WOuldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to just set the Rounds, RosterSize, and the draft rounds all to 53? Why does each one have a different value?
Post #: 1
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/3/2007 6:49:49 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

Why does each one have a different value?


For future drafts.

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 2
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/3/2007 7:24:57 PM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		Explain




(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 3
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/3/2007 9:19:46 PM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

If the roster is set to 53, why is the maximum draft length only 35 rounds?


The maximum number of draft rounds is 35.

quote:

I tried altering one of the 45 man profiles to a 53 man profile, doing nothing more than changing the rounds and roster size in the text file to 53 and each team drafted 35 QBs.


Yes, because you tried to make the game do something it's not designed to do. Did that 45 man profile that you modified have 53 players listed? Just changing that value from 45 to 53 is going to cause no end of problems unless the rest of the file is modified to suit. You should be using the in-game team profile editor to make these changes so the game can enforce the restrictions on use.

I think the confusion is that these files are draft profiles. They are not. They play a roll in the draft, but they're not strictly draft profiles. They're the complete make up of the team.. which is why they're called Team Profiles. The concept of Draft Profiles, both in these files and in the game, was removed quite some time ago.



(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 4
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/4/2007 4:24:09 PM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		Well that makes a little more sense I guess.

Still, I would think if you are running an initial draft to fill out a 53 man roster for 32 teams then you should be able to run a 53 round draft.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I've tried 5 times yesterday to set up a new league and have the rosters filled with 53 players.  The best I could come up with was to set all teams to cpu control & turn off the draft.  That got about 30 players on each roster at various positions, which isn't quite what I wanted but it's better than going through and releasing 32 QBs one by one from each team.  I really wish this process was explained better so that I could run a somewhat realistic draft.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 5
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/4/2007 5:37:54 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

quote:

Why does each one have a different value?

For future drafts.

Explain


Leagues will usually only want to draft high numbers of players in the initial league draft.  After that, the draft size should reflect turnover from retirements.

quote:

Still, I would think if you are running an initial draft to fill out a 53 man roster for 32 teams then you should be able to run a 53 round draft.


I understand your point, but 35 rounds is enough for any draft.  After that, the teams pick up free agents to complete the team as indicated in the team profile.

It isn't like the 36th player on each team is going to be a starter.

quote:

... it's better than going through and releasing 32 QBs one by one from each team.


If the team profiles were set up correctly, no team should draft more quarterbacks then indicated in its profile.

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 6
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 12:21:08 AM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

quote:

quote:

Why does each one have a different value?

For future drafts.

Explain


Leagues will usually only want to draft high numbers of players in the initial league draft. After that, the draft size should reflect turnover from retirements.


Agreed. But the initial draft should still fill out the entire roster.

quote:

quote:

Still, I would think if you are running an initial draft to fill out a 53 man roster for 32 teams then you should be able to run a 53 round draft.


I understand your point, but 35 rounds is enough for any draft. After that, the teams pick up free agents to complete the team as indicated in the team profile.


On what research is this based? Why would I want to take the time to set up a profile and draft my team only to have the game randomly assign the last 1/3 of my roster? In the NFL expansion drafts, were the teams only allowed to pick 35 players and then have the last 18 randomly assigned? Of course not. The reason I'm drafting the team myself is because I don't want the cpu doing it. That means I want to draft the entire team, not just 2/3 of it.

quote:

It isn't like the 36th player on each team is going to be a starter.


Maybe not a starter, but if players are properly fatiguing and getting injured, then he should get some playing time.

quote:

quote:

... it's better than going through and releasing 32 QBs one by one from each team.


If the team profiles were set up correctly, no team should draft more quarterbacks then indicated in its profile.


Then how about providing some 53 man profiles that are set up correctly so people don't have to try to figure this out on their own? I'm sure it would ease the frustration level.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 7
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 1:42:50 AM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		I give up. Can someone please explain how to set up an auto-draft that does NOT end up with each team having 35 QBs on the roster? I've wasted enough time trying to figure this out on my own.


EDIT: Nevermind. After about 8 different attempts it seems to have finally worked. I don't know why.

< Message edited by Lucas718 -- 3/5/2007 2:06:21 AM >

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 8
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 1:54:52 AM   
garysorrell


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		Why in the world are there 35 QBs? Ive never seen more than 5 or 6 pre training camp.

I usually see a ton of OL and DL, but still, not 35.

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 9
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 1:55:35 AM   
garysorrell


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		What did you do to get it to work, now im intrigued :-)

(in reply to garysorrell)
Post #: 10
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 1:59:27 AM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garysorrell

What did you do to get it to work, now im intrigued :-)



I'm really not sure. I filled out the profiles and made sure they were set to 53 players as David stated above. Then I assigned a profile to each team.

Then after numerous attempts and league resets it finally worked after I set each team to cpu control and ran an auto draft. I had tried this a couple of times yesterday and all it did was select QBs so I'm not sure why this attempt was any different... but it worked.

(in reply to garysorrell)
Post #: 11
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 2:39:11 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

Agreed. But the initial draft should still fill out the entire roster.


Once the initial draft is complete, the remainder of the roster + extras is completed for you automatically.. based on the team profile.

quote:

On what research is this based? Why would I want to take the time to set up a profile and draft my team only to have the game randomly assign the last 1/3 of my roster? In the NFL expansion drafts, were the teams only allowed to pick 35 players and then have the last 18 randomly assigned? Of course not. The reason I'm drafting the team myself is because I don't want the cpu doing it. That means I want to draft the entire team, not just 2/3 of it.


The CPU is using the team profile to fill out the rest of the roster. It's not adding random players. It's only adding players that are indicated in the team profile.

Again, I have to stress that this is not a draft profile you're creating. When you create a team profile, that's what the CPU uses to determine what players, and what skills those players should have, and the total count of the player positions, are on the team. This information is used to make cuts, it's used to find new free agents if required, etc.. they're used by the CPU throughout the game.. not just during the draft.

< Message edited by David Winter -- 3/5/2007 2:59:48 AM >

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 12
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 2:43:23 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garysorrell

Why in the world are there 35 QBs? Ive never seen more than 5 or 6 pre training camp.

I usually see a ton of OL and DL, but still, not 35.


The likely reason he had that many extra QB's is because he manually edited a team profile file (which isn't something people should be doing). My guess is that he only changed one small portion of the file. When loaded, this caused the game to try and fill in the missing data with something...anything...and those somethings turned out to be extra QB's. QB is the 'default' position when a player is created in the game and is not told explicitly to be created as a specific position.

(in reply to garysorrell)
Post #: 13
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 2:50:53 AM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		There should really be a tutorial on this.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 14
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 4:48:55 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		Page 28 (section 7.11) in the manual explains team profiles and how they're used by the game.

Granted, since the manual was written, the requirement for the draft data in the profile filename and in the file itself has been eliminated, but the concept and use of the team profiles remains unchanged.

I really can't provide tutorials or instructions on manually editing the game files that were never designed to be manually edited.

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 15
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 1:23:41 PM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

Page 28 (section 7.11) in the manual explains team profiles and how they're used by the game.

Granted, since the manual was written, the requirement for the draft data in the profile filename and in the file itself has been eliminated, but the concept and use of the team profiles remains unchanged.

I really can't provide tutorials or instructions on manually editing the game files that were never designed to be manually edited.


I understand that you don't want to get into supporting stuff we edit on our own but since your game supports a 53 man roster and doesn't come with a 53 man profile, what other way is there to create one?

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 16
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 7:48:03 PM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

I understand that you don't want to get into supporting stuff we edit on our own but since your game supports a 53 man roster and doesn't come with a 53 man profile, what other way is there to create one?


Via the team profile view on any team page. If there are no user created profiles, it will use the very simple one the game comes with. From there you can edit and create profiles from the team profile page from any team.

As for no profiles included. I have a collection of them that are going into the next update. But the game does come with one simple one it uses for a default, and editing and saving it is done via the team profile view.

thanks

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 17
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 8:33:22 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		Lucas, thank you for posting your concerns.  

I will try to answer these as best I can.


quote:

quote:

quote:

quote:

quote:

Why does each one have a different value?

For future drafts.

Explain

Leagues will usually only want to draft high numbers of players in the initial league draft. After that, the draft size should reflect turnover from retirements.

Agreed. But the initial draft should still fill out the entire roster.


The entire roster is filled out based on the team's profile. 

quote:

quote:

quote:

Still, I would think if you are running an initial draft to fill out a 53 man roster for 32 teams then you should be able to run a 53 round draft.

I understand your point, but 35 rounds is enough for any draft. After that, the teams pick up free agents to complete the team as indicated in the team profile.

On what research is this based? Why would I want to take the time to set up a profile and draft my team only to have the game randomly assign the last 1/3 of my roster?


It isn't random; it goes by the numbers indicated in the team profile.  As I stated, I understand your point, and I do not know why 35 is the top end limit, but there could be AI or player pool restrictions involved.  I do not believe it is as big an issue as you are making it.

quote:

In the NFL expansion drafts, were the teams only allowed to pick 35 players and then have the last 18 randomly assigned? Of course not. The reason I'm drafting the team myself is because I don't want the cpu doing it. That means I want to draft the entire team, not just 2/3 of it.


In 2002, the Houston Texans drafted just 19 players in the NFL expansion draft and 12 player in the rookie draft for 31 overall drafted players.  The rest were free agents.  That left 22 players to be picked up to fill out the roster, and that didn't include players assigned to training camp that were cut prior to the season.

Maximum-Football allows 35 players to be drafted, and then does some GM work to fill out the roster.  If members here want the top number expanded, it way be well to add it to the wish list.

quote:

quote:

It isn't like the 36th player on each team is going to be a starter.

Maybe not a starter, but if players are properly fatiguing and getting injured, then he should get some playing time.


I agree, but one must ask how much diffference there is between the 36th player A and the 36th player B.

quote:

quote:

quote:

... it's better than going through and releasing 32 QBs one by one from each team.

If the team profiles were set up correctly, no team should draft more quarterbacks then indicated in its profile.

Then how about providing some 53 man profiles that are set up correctly so people don't have to try to figure this out on their own? I'm sure it would ease the frustration level.


I assume you mean David, as I do not work for either Wintervalley Software or Matrix Games, and I don't have a say in which files come with the game.  I am just a beta development team member and a volunteer moderator.

That point stated, David and some of the beta team members have created various team profiles, and they should be released with a future patch.

I do agree that having various team profiles come with the game is a good idea, and I pushed for it in the development forum, but I am unsure why you are frustrated with this, as how to create a team profile is listed in the manual and is a relatively simple matter. 

All one has to do is edit and save the default profile for any given team.  One can even go in and edit the default profile in the game tables.

It is not a good idea to change the name of default files though, as that may cause unintended results.

I am sure David has read your requests, and he will consider them for potential future adjustments.


< Message edited by Marauders -- 3/5/2007 8:59:00 PM >

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 18
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/5/2007 10:10:45 PM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		Appreciate the responses. I guess we just have different expectations on how a roster should be filled out. I want to hand pick every player. I want to sit there for 5 minutes trying to decide whether I should take the WR with 78 Speed and 98 Catching or the one with 80 Speed and 92 Catch ratings. To me, trying to find a gem in the later rounds is part of the fun of building a team from scratch. I don't just want to tell the cpu to get me a WR, I want to hand pick which WR I'm getting so that I can look back after a few seasons and say "I was right about that guy" or "I should have taken the other guy"

Obviously not everyone feels that way. I thought that was why there was an autodraft button.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 19
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/6/2007 4:26:56 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

Obviously not everyone feels that way. I thought that was why there was an autodraft button.


Some purchasers don't want to draft themselves.  I agree with you that selecting players is much more fun, but when I am testing features, I am glad that teams can be autodrafted.

quote:

I guess we just have different expectations on how a roster should be filled out. I want to hand pick every player. I want to sit there for 5 minutes trying to decide whether I should take the WR with 78 Speed and 98 Catching or the one with 80 Speed and 92 Catch ratings. To me, trying to find a gem in the later rounds is part of the fun of building a team from scratch.


I'm not sure why 35 is the top limit, but it would be nice to have that higher for larger team sizes.  With my league, we have always drafted live and inputed them into the game later.  If we draft more than 35 initial players, we'll have to cut and pick up players to complete the rosters.  We'll just have to figure out what we want to do.

quote:

Appreciate the responses.


We appreciate the questions.

As I have stated before, community input is important.  Maximum-Football will never be able to have all of the options that community members have asked for, but David sure tries hard to do as much as he can.

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 20
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/6/2007 3:35:49 PM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		So let's say after season 1 ends that I want the 2nd year draft (and every draft thereafter) to only be 7 rounds. How exactly would I set that up?

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 21
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/6/2007 4:38:27 PM   
Charlie19341


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2007
From: Exton, PA
Status: offline 		Lucas, I am following your thread with great interest, as I too want to set up the same configuration that you propose, but as a newbie, I will let the game pick the remainder of my team.  But, as expected, I have great interest in the profile for the remainder of the players.  I may want lots of Speed in my #5 CB, but he would not need a lot of Energy, as he would not play that often; same for a #4 LB, etc.

_____________________________

~ Charlie

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 22
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/6/2007 6:05:11 PM   
Ambermonk


Posts: 6
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		Out of the park baseball has been doing this sort of thing for years and has most of the bugs worked out.  For fictional leagues they have an inaugural draft (number of rounds selectable by the user), and future drafts (the number of rounds also selectable by the user).

I realise that this is a baseball game - but Dave might be interested in observing how the league structure has been set up.  It is professional, easy to understand, easy to use, highly modifiable, and is very flexible - an excellent model for any type of computer sports league.

(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 23
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/6/2007 6:44:27 PM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charlie19341

Lucas, I am following your thread with great interest, as I too want to set up the same configuration that you propose, but as a newbie, I will let the game pick the remainder of my team. But, as expected, I have great interest in the profile for the remainder of the players. I may want lots of Speed in my #5 CB, but he would not need a lot of Energy, as he would not play that often; same for a #4 LB, etc.


Thanks. Glad to see others joining in here. I was starting to think I was alone.

Now that I understand the profiles a little better, all I really want is for the initial draft to fill out the entire roster. I don't know how difficult it would be, but there is already code in there for different length drafts up to 35. So I'm wondering if it could be upped to 53 or 65 or whatever the maximum roster is. I just don't understand the point in drafting 2/3 of your roster and then having the cpu fill in the rest.

(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 24
RE: Confused about draft, profiles - 3/7/2007 1:12:24 AM   
garysorrell


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		You can select the draft rounds, in increments up to 35
No Draft, 5, 7, 10, 15, 25, 35

It can be changed each season.

I have to say, I am with you guys on this one. I wouldnt mind a draft length available for each roster size. 40 man roster, 40 round draft, etc.



< Message edited by garysorrell -- 3/7/2007 1:29:12 AM >

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 25
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