RE: Carriers when?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Carriers At War >> RE: Carriers when?

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RE: Carriers when? - 4/26/2007 8:39:50 AM

John 3rd

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Just read Shattered Sword for a fantastic perspective that clears up a TON of what is being argued about here.

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Post #: 31

RE: Carriers when? - 4/26/2007 8:47:51 AM

pasternakski

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Be sure to check the posts of those who have certain problems both with the accuracy and objectivity of this tome.

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Post #: 32

RE: Carriers when? - 4/30/2007 2:06:21 AM

dudalb_slith

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I join the chorus of praise for "Shattered Sword" I cannot imagine anybody interested in the Carrier War in the Pacific not reading this.

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Post #: 33

RE: Carriers when? - 4/30/2007 6:31:14 AM

pasternakski

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It's not a question of reading it and taking from it what you can. Many have been critical of this work (I have said nothing about it), and that is all I have to say about it.

< Message edited by pasternakski -- 5/3/2007 12:19:00 AM >

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Put my faith in the people
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Post #: 34

RE: Carriers when? - 4/30/2007 5:32:10 PM

Prince of Eckm�hl

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From: Texas
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AS A GAMER, knowing what I know, before the Essex-class and escorts are bristling with 40mm bofors/proximity range ammo, I take the IJN in a game.

I do so because of the superior range of it's scout, strike and fighter a/c.

My strategy is based on getting in the first hack, hopefully before the U.S. launches a strike of its own.

After large numbers of Essex are deployed, this part of the war belongs to the U.S.

And there is no greater of confluence of incompetence and bad-luck to be found than the Pearl Harbor debacle.

Now, there's an if...

What if 150-200 U.S. fighters had been cruising at 10,000ft when the Japanese strike force arrived?

The IJN would still have inflicted major losses on the anchored fleet, but they would have likely suffered MASSIVE losses among their strike force, putting them at a disadvantage in coming operations.

And what if the U.S. had discovered the intended raid early enough for the fleet to have sortied? LOL, they'd probably all have been sunk, a la the Repulse and Prince of Wales!!!

Luck played a big role in WW2, certainly.

That torpedo that disabled the Bismark is proof enough of that, but intel won the battle of Midway.

It could have gone the other way, but the U.S. would have had to botch the job far more completely than anything else that they had done to date, IMHO.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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Post #: 35

RE: Carriers when? - 5/2/2007 10:18:38 PM

NimitsTexan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

It's not a question of reading it and taking from it what you can. Many have been critical of this work (I have said nothing anbout it), and that is all I have to say about it.

Just out of curiosity, could you enlighten me as to some of the problems others are having with "Shatterd Sword"? Other than the fact they (and modern Japanese) were a little too hard on Fuchida, nothing in the book struck my as symptomatic of poor research or an over-enthusiasm to prove a certain point. [On a side note, I am somewhat suspicious that the atitudes of modern Japanese historians towards Fuchida may be influenced by the latter's acceptance of Christianity, a religion still not particularly popular in that country].

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Post #: 36

RE: Carriers when? - 5/3/2007 12:17:39 AM

pasternakski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NimitsTexan
Just out of curiosity, could you enlighten me as to some of the problems others are having with "Shatterd Sword"?

I suggest you search the forums and find their posts, then PM them if you want to discuss what they had to say.

Their words are their words, not mine. Besides, almost every time I post anything in response to someone on these forums, it turns into an excuse for fragging my @$$, and next thing you know everybody starts talking about what a flaming jerk I am.

Further, I don't dare come to my own defense, because the moderators seem more than willing to jump on the "kill the guy with the Polish-sounding nick" bandwagon themselves.

So, I'd just as soon not start. Probably shouldn't have said anything about it in the first place, but I thought maybe you would be interested in pursuing some intelligent, informative, friendly dialogue with those whose views contrast with your own.

With that, I'm outta this thread.

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Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 37

RE: Carriers when? - 5/3/2007 8:10:42 AM

Prince of Eckm�hl

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Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
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I ordered Shattered Sword from Amazon. It sounds interesting and it'll be right at home in my little collection of volumes on the subject.

When I was a kid, right at the outset of my wargaming fit, I checked out a copy of Incredible Victory from my middle-school's library. I took the book with me on a four-hundred-mile excursion to my first NFL game. As I recall, the adults in the car were surprised that a barely-pubescent teen could be so TOTALLY absorbed on the verge of his first COWBOY'S game. The book was just that good, the loss of the Yorktown, notwithstanding.

A couple of months later, Santa brought me a copy of Avalon Hill's Midway game. IIRC, it was my fifth, following Jutland, Afrika Korps, Battle of the Bulge and 1914. I remember being sorta disappointed that the game didn't differentiate between plane types. Vals and SBDs were just "dive-bombers." I guess that I was a "grog" before being a "grog" was considered cool!