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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/14/2007 11:47:07 AM

mjk428

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior
The latest Red Ross report estimates the number of civilian deaths at a staggering 655,000 since 2003.

The Red Cross has said no such thing. You're referring to the Lancet Report, which even the decidely left wing iraqbodycount.org has described as utter nonsense.

Even Iraqbodycount Ignores the simple fact that the number one cause of death for poor innocent Moose-lims is their fellow Moose-lims

The 655,000 figure is absurd, by a factor of at least ten. It's nothing more than politically motivated propaganda.

It also begs the question if on average 450 civilians are killed a day, that's 450 each and every day for 4 years in order to get to 650k, why would "dozens killed in suicide bombing" be newsworthy?

Just commenting on the numbers, no politics from me.

< Message edited by mjk428 -- 4/14/2007 11:49:11 AM >

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Post #: 31

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/14/2007 10:16:02 PM

Ursa MAior

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Could be my wrong with the Lancet report, although this number should not necessarily all come from bombing.

Well those muslims were quiet and peaceful (even if not from their free will) before 2003. Hm?

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Post #: 32

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/15/2007 10:51:20 AM

Twotribes

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So, your position is that if a population is being murdered raped and restricted, as long as they dont fight back, that means all is right with the world? They are "peaceful" so no need to worry?

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Post #: 33

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/15/2007 2:05:54 PM

Ursa MAior

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

So, your position is that if a population is being murdered raped and restricted, as long as they dont fight back, that means all is right with the world? They are "peaceful" so no need to worry?

Well almost.

All I am saying is that the situation has not changed a lot since 2003. And THAT really has not worth any life be it a US soldier or a muslim local.

Has it?

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Post #: 34

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/15/2007 2:09:57 PM

Terminus

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The situation in Iraq HAS changed a lot over the past four years. Too bad it's changed for the worse...

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Post #: 35

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/15/2007 4:03:28 PM

Twotribes

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Ya, sure thing. If one would do more then read the biased mainstream media, one might get the real picture in Iraq.

Is there fighting? Sure is, but now instead of the citizenry being at the mercy of the despot and his corrupt military and police, anyone that wants freedom can actually do something about it. And in fact they are. Except for the , I believe, 3 provinces, it IS generally peaceful in Iraq. And in those areas where the Bathasist and terrorists are fighting they are being turned in and turned on by citizens/tribes/clans, what ever term you prefer, that are TIRED of it. But of course THIS doesnt get play much in the press, well unless it is bad, like if a local group takes some losses for standing up to the terrorists, now that gets press attention, with the dire handwringing and claims that it just doesnt pay to oppose terror.

But I suspect most here arent interested in reality and prefer the fantasy the Main Stream press prints and reports. A lot of the readers here would be embarrassed if the REAL news were printed. You can find it, but that would require that you care.

Of course this begs the question.... What happens if these people get their dream and the US does abandon Iraq to the terrorists, Iran and Syria? I know the Europeans may not be happy, the US gets very little of her oil from that region, BUT Europe.....

After the US abandons another ally, at the insistance of foolish, do me a favor and dont come crying for US help to REInvade and secure the region.

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Post #: 36

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 1:17:13 AM

11Bravo

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Woodchipper sales are down...

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Post #: 37

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 1:35:55 AM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Ya, sure thing. If one would do more then read the biased mainstream media, one might get the real picture in Iraq.

Is there fighting? Sure is, but now instead of the citizenry being at the mercy of the despot and his corrupt military and police, anyone that wants freedom can actually do something about it. And in fact they are. Except for the , I believe, 3 provinces, it IS generally peaceful in Iraq. And in those areas where the Bathasist and terrorists are fighting they are being turned in and turned on by citizens/tribes/clans, what ever term you prefer, that are TIRED of it. But of course THIS doesnt get play much in the press, well unless it is bad, like if a local group takes some losses for standing up to the terrorists, now that gets press attention, with the dire handwringing and claims that it just doesnt pay to oppose terror.

But I suspect most here arent interested in reality and prefer the fantasy the Main Stream press prints and reports. A lot of the readers here would be embarrassed if the REAL news were printed. You can find it, but that would require that you care.

Of course this begs the question.... What happens if these people get their dream and the US does abandon Iraq to the terrorists, Iran and Syria? I know the Europeans may not be happy, the US gets very little of her oil from that region, BUT Europe.....

After the US abandons another ally, at the insistance of foolish, do me a favor and dont come crying for US help to REInvade and secure the region.

Once again, you show your complete lack of knowledge about anything except how to operate a computer keyboard. Your opinion is completely irrelevant. Goodbye.

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Post #: 38

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 1:36:57 AM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Ya, sure thing. If one would do more then read the biased mainstream media,

Yeah, let's all watch Fox "News" and get our daily injections of Bushite idiocy. Mental midget.

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Post #: 39

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 2:16:20 AM

Twotribes

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Actually the person showing any lack of intelligence would be the one making personal attacks and reciting from ingrained dogma the party line.

Do you even KNOW how many provinces are in Iraq? Can you provide us a list of major fighting anywhere but in 2 cities and smaller towns in the same 3 provinces?

Ohh wait, I bet you think those lancet reports were good science too dont ya?

Do a little math, there are 365 days in a year , the fighting is at 4 years. 4 x 365 is 1460 days, add one for a leap year, we are up to 1461 days. Now take 650,000 and see how many that averages out to a day.

That is pretty close to 445 people a day. So bright boy.... why does the press tell us about 18 or 40 dead a day, when damn there are 445 being killed every day? Where are all these bodies going? Maybe solent green? Maybe wood chippers ARE back in fashion? I know, they are just dumped in the desert and the rats and snakes eat them... ya thats what happens.

As for Fox News, I would bet a lot of money you have never actually watched it, so have no IDEA what your talking about. Just stay with the guys that say EXACTLY what you want to hear.

Like I said, when we abandon Iraq cause of idiots, DO NOT come crying to the United States when your oil dries up and your paying 1000 Euro's a gallon ( ohh wait you dont buy gallons, you buy by the liter)

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Post #: 40

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 4:25:47 AM

Paul Vebber

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Terminus, try making a contribution to the topic instead of the attacks.

You won't get another warning.

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Post #: 41

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 6:31:27 AM

Kevin E. Duguay

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It's a moot subject as long as the Dem congress holds up the funds and keeps our troops hostage and in danger.

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Post #: 42

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 10:04:43 AM

Ursa MAior

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From: Hungary, EU
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Ya, sure thing. If one would do more then read the biased mainstream media, one might get the real picture in Iraq.

Is there fighting? Sure is, but now instead of the citizenry being at the mercy of the despot and his corrupt military and police, anyone that wants freedom can actually do something about it. And in fact they are. Except for the , I believe, 3 provinces, it IS generally peaceful in Iraq. And in those areas where the Bathasist and terrorists are fighting they are being turned in and turned on by citizens/tribes/clans, what ever term you prefer, that are TIRED of it. But of course THIS doesnt get play much in the press, well unless it is bad, like if a local group takes some losses for standing up to the terrorists, now that gets press attention, with the dire handwringing and claims that it just doesnt pay to oppose terror.

But I suspect most here arent interested in reality and prefer the fantasy the Main Stream press prints and reports. A lot of the readers here would be embarrassed if the REAL news were printed. You can find it, but that would require that you care.

Of course this begs the question.... What happens if these people get their dream and the US does abandon Iraq to the terrorists, Iran and Syria? I know the Europeans may not be happy, the US gets very little of her oil from that region, BUT Europe.....

After the US abandons another ally, at the insistance of foolish, do me a favor and dont come crying for US help to REInvade and secure the region.

BBC is famous for its neutrality and it is also full with bad news of Iraq. Winning hearts and minds would have been the key. But it is too late now.

You are wrong if you think that iraqi oil is used mostly in the EU. Guess which country gets that oil almost free of charge?

Not that there is something wrong with it. You get what you conquered. As simple as that. But not in the name of democracy export. Much rather in the name of the stronger. AND I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST that. It is pure realpolitik.

In my opinion after finding out that the really extremist and fundamentalist Saudi Arabia supports terrorists on the money recievd from the US for the oil (not only Osama but see 9/11 perpetrators as well) the REAL decisionmakers (NOT the prez) have decided they need another source for oil. Iraq was the best solution (Iran is too big + China and Russia support it, rest does not have sufficient oil). Only problem is they have not set other objectives than to get the oil fields. Well that objective is accomplished but there is unfotunately a country around those fields. There were NO plans when there were time and it is too late now.

Due to the failure in Iraq and the slow progress in Afghanistan Huntington's oversimplifcating vision is coming true, but not because he was right but rather because WE (yes you and us) have made it real. And that shows the promise of a really sad future. You can be sure that the donkeys (they are the democrats right?) will recall the troops from Iraq, and the deterring force of the US (along with all of the western world) will suffer a similar blow than the IDF's last summer in Lebanon. Radical muslims will be empowered by it just as anticolonist movements were empowered by the british defeat at Singapore in 42.

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Post #: 43

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 12:47:02 PM

Terminus

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Never mind... What's the use?

< Message edited by Terminus -- 4/16/2007 3:36:24 PM >

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 4:19:45 PM

robpost3

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Dr. Smith was notorious for his unique verbosity. When Robot would irritate him, he would let the insults fly. Jonathan Harris (Dr. Smith) would often stay up all night brainstorming affronts to the Robot.

Meandering Mental Midget
Small humor break...Happy Monday all!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by robpost3 -- 4/16/2007 4:21:24 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 4:23:50 PM

Terminus

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Is that a House-ism in your quote?

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 4:34:53 PM

robpost3

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Just trying to spread da luv

spelfink ecit

< Message edited by robpost3 -- 4/16/2007 4:36:18 PM >

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The Yankee Motto:
Use it up,
Wear it out,
Make do,
Or do without.
"God Help us, and God, come yourself.
Don't send Jesus, this is no place for children."

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Post #: 47

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 4:40:55 PM

Terminus

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I was referring to your sig quote... Looks like a House-ism to me...

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/16/2007 4:56:03 PM

robpost3

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Garrett PI....Glen Cook
Glen Cook's love of writing began in grade school, and in high school he wrote the occasional article for his school's newspaper. After high school, Cook spent time in the United States Navy and later worked his way through college, leaving little time for his writing endeavors. Cook began to write in earnest while working for General Motors at an auto assembly plant. Cook claims that his job was simple enough to leave him ample time to write while at work; in fact, Cook admits to having written as many as three books per year while working at the plant.[1]

It was during this time that Cook wrote his first novel of The Black Company, a gritty fantasy series that follows an elite mercenary unit through several decades of their history. The series, currently 10 novels long, has become something of a cult classic, especially among current and former members of the military. When asked about the series' popularity among soldiers, Cook replied: "The characters act like the guys actually behave. It doesn't glorify war; it's just people getting on with the job. The characters are real soldiers. They're not soldiers as imagined by people who've never been in the service. That's why service guys like it.".[2] Cook is also well known for his Garrett P.I. series, which tells the haphazard adventures of hardboiled detective Garrett, and his Dread Empire series, which highlights Cook's earlier published work.

Cook is currently retired from his job at GM, living with his wife, Carol, and children (Justin, Chris, and Mike) in St. Louis, Missouri. Although he can now devote himself full-time to his writing career, he feels he was actually more productive while he was still employed at his old job.[2]
I reccomend any of his stuff...good read...

< Message edited by robpost3 -- 4/16/2007 5:01:23 PM >

_____________________________

The Yankee Motto:
Use it up,
Wear it out,
Make do,
Or do without.
"God Help us, and God, come yourself.
Don't send Jesus, this is no place for children."

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Post #: 49

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 12:15:11 AM

Doggie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

BBC is famous for its neutrality

Yeah, right

The BBC is joke. They lost what ever credibility they had when they made up the story about the "staged" Jessica Lynch rescue operation.

If you get your "news" from the BBC, it's no wonder you don't know what you're talking about.

< Message edited by Doggie -- 4/17/2007 12:17:23 AM >

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 12:59:28 AM

Terminus

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As opposed to Fox News, who never make anything up themselves... They get their made up stuff straight from the White House...

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 4:42:59 AM

Twotribes

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I repeat, have you ever even watched Fox? I am betting you havent.

Did you know that unlike all the other networks in the United States it has liberals AND conservatives in NON news programs? The only "Bias" it has is that unlike the other networks, Fox allows all sides to be seen. On its News shows it hires both liberal and non liberal talking heads as the "experts", again as opposed to the others that JUST hire the appropriate left leaning or far left "expert".

If Fox is a right wing mouth piece then every other news organization, based on that claim, is so far to the left as to be OFF the chart. But then you wouldnt know that since you probably have never even seen the network.

Are you aware that Fox is the MOST watched news network of them all in the US? I guess that just proves we are all a bunch of right wing bigot rednecks waiting to invade another country for ( according to you) no reason.

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 4:44:08 AM

SemperAugustus

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Israel and Turkey being the least disfunctional countries in region says a lot about the rest of them, Iraq taking the prize of the most disfunctional.

The conflict between the Shia and Sunni doesn't get better due to a popular belief among Sunnis that the census data showing that the majority are shia has been rigged, and that the Sunnis are, in fact, the majority and can afford a civil war.

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Post #: 53

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 1:58:03 PM

Ursa MAior

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

BBC is famous for its neutrality

Yeah, right

The BBC is joke. They lost what ever credibility they had when they made up the story about the "staged" Jessica Lynch rescue operation.

If you get your "news" from the BBC, it's no wonder you don't know what you're talking about.

First of all I would like to thank you for the normal voice of your message. Seriously.

Secondly BBC's reports are almost ALWAYS halfways between official US success propaganda and al jazeera's counter propaganda.

I have yet to see a tendency in their news except for being neutral.

As of sources I would like to ask you to offer one for me. In backwater banana republics like mine (no joke!) I am probably not aware of everything even though I 'd like to live from being well informed sooner or later.

About the sitrep in Iraq. I have serious doubts that Saddam's system has murdered approx 50-100 people weekly, and I am sure that children were definitely not among them. Yes I know about the kurds and revolts in 1991 but they are not considered a normal state in any meaning and they have not lasted for 4 years. I intentionally have not said anything of women who were also regularly executed (but not raped!) along with their influential husbands or brothers. BUT the streets were safe even if people died of the dictatorship in comparable numbers. IF onyl the HALF is true, what is reported in mainstream media (and I have serious doubts that after 9/11 ANY US citizen would like to harm his/hers country's reputation) than the situation IS NOT better than 4 yrs ago.

Not that I am speaking for Saddam, he deserved the painful death he suffered (and would have deserved more for attacking with cyanide innocent people in Kurdistan) but even powerful media like CNN cannot "invent" or produce killings of tens of thousands of people just to make news!

Like the IDF in Lebanon 2006 the US armed forces in Iraq have won every armed conflict, but still failed to reach their objectives ie the democratization of Iraq.

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 8:13:31 PM

Paul Vebber

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quote:

Never mind... What's the use?

Please, point to the contributions you have made to this thread beyond sacastic statements of the obvious at best, and simple trollish name calling at the worst.

Demonstrate you have something constructive to constribe and I'll take you off my "one last strike and you get a week off" list. You hae a pattern of doing little in these sort of thresads but snipe and name-call.

Contribute to the thread cogently or you'll be treated as your posts on this thread reflect.

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Post #: 55

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 8:24:03 PM

Paul Vebber

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I'd love to see this get back on topic. My last response to Marauders has gone unresponded to...

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 8:37:29 PM

anarchyintheuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

Secondly BBC's reports are almost ALWAYS halfways between official US success propaganda and al jazeera's counter propaganda.

The fact that you equate the two is troubling.

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Post #: 57

RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/17/2007 9:11:32 PM

Ursa MAior

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

Secondly BBC's reports are almost ALWAYS halfways between official US success propaganda and al jazeera's counter propaganda.

The fact that you equate the two is troubling.

One is the A endpoint of the scale (everything is OK) the other is B endpoint (everything is bad). The truth is somewhere halfway.

Both are completely biased towrds the subject. In maximum 12 month we'll see who was right.

< Message edited by Ursa MAior -- 4/17/2007 9:13:29 PM >

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/18/2007 2:10:33 AM

Doggie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

First of all I would like to thank you for the normal voice of your message. Seriously.

Secondly BBC's reports are almost ALWAYS halfways between official US success propaganda and al jazeera's counter propaganda.

I have yet to see a tendency in their news except for being neutral.

I again refer you to this example of BBC "neutrality". A BBC "journalist" is blaming Israel, yes Isreal, for the kidnap and murder of a British journalist at the hands of Hamas.

Here's a look at BBC "neutrality" from a European point of view Fox News is nowhere in sight.

Here's the real story behind the BBC's The evil Jews are bombing Palestinian ambulances slander.

Here, the BBC itself admits to staging photos from Lebanon.

But this is absolutely the disgracefull exhibiton of partisan politics masquerading as "journalism" I have ever witnessed.

The BBC story about "blank ammuntion" and a "staged rescue" is absolutely ridiculous. Only an idiot would believe the United States Army sent troops into a combat zone armed with blanks. A single Iraqi armed with real bullets could have wiped out the whole team.

quote:

As of sources I would like to ask you to offer one for me. In backwater banana republics like mine (no joke!) I am probably not aware of everything even though I 'd like to live from being well informed sooner or later.

If you're really interested in what people serving in the United States Armed forces think, here's The Stars and Stripes the unofficial newspaper for American troops overseas. This is what our soldiers in foreign countries read. It's is not published by the U.S. government. Stars and Stripes is a civilian newspaper distributed to American soldiers and sailors. Go to the letters to the editors section and you'll see what soldiers themselves complain about. It is most definitely not goverment sponsored propaganda.

< Message edited by Doggie -- 4/18/2007 2:17:27 AM >

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RE: Iraq Vehicle Force Mix - 4/18/2007 9:45:23 AM

Ursa MAior

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With all respect what does the National Union of Journalists has to do with the BBC? They stood up for the kidnapped journalist have not they? That's all the connection I see.

Second link is a unknown homepage edited partially by Helen Szamuely very probably the relative of the communist mass murderer Tibor Szamuely aka one of the Lenin boys in 1919.

Third link is another unknown homepage. Sorry but I can make one of these myself for tomorrow so it is completely unreliable. Another important thing is that whether that ambulance was attacked or not others (and schools!) have been hit. It is a sad but normal thing in a war to try to camouflage command points or ammo depots or even fighting froces with red crosses or kindrgartens hoping that "a moraly superior enemy" wont attack them. Well it has not worked in WWII nor in the Falkladns or any war after that (ncluding Iraq and Lebanon). We all know that militant radical islamists dont respect anything (like putting wepon cahes or SSM sites near or under such plaeces), the shock to the wrold is, that it is true for civilized countries too.

Fourth link does not state whether the boy was pushed forwrd by his parents (to show the size of the bomb) or on the order by the photographer. But you miss the most shocking prt of the article.

quote:

us to be careful of an anti-personnel mine fitted with a tipping device that the Israeli troops left near the front door

This is not the way civilized armies fight. It is the way of guerillas or terrorists. And if you fight like them you are not better than them.

As of Stars and stripes I will start reading it thanks for the info. Even though fully respecting the sacrifices of the soldiers, it still is not a neutral media or a completely free one (for obvious reasons).

To sum it up thanks for the info, but I am not nearer to understand why BBC is biased, and what sources do you read the get the right picture of what is REALLY going on in Iraq. The soldiers' view is onyl one of the aspects. Social, economical and other issues are out od their reach.

Edit

Just read it on bbc.co.uk
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6554487.stm
Israeli soldiers using youths as humans shields.

quote:

The military, announcing the suspension, said soldiers "apparently made prohibited use of civilians".

PS Doggie check Hagana, Stern group (especially its 1947-48 activities) and the bombing of Hotel King David in 1940. The world is NOT black and white.

< Message edited by Ursa MAior -- 4/18/2007 9:50:59 AM >

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Post #: 60