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Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 12:58:12 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Just progressing my cunning plan for world domination here...

Some ideas for features that would be useful for ToaW 4 IMO

1/ The ability to vary anything in the replacements schedule by event - eg the pool for an item (I think that can be done already?), but also the timing (start & end turns) and the replacement rate - ie be able to do this for individual items. Imagine giving the Axis in FitE a theatre option to cease production of Pz-IV's and transfer it to Panthers...lose a few months production of P4's, and then see what happens....

2/ The ability to allocate and transfer units between formations

3/ Some ability to prioritise supply - I have lots of thoughts on that one but will hang onto them for a bit 'cos I wouldn't want to confuse y'all

4/ Some naval missions done in a similar manner to air missions - eg a "patrol" mission that gives some chance of intercepting enemy shiping within a certain range determined by how far the ships could move in the time frame and still get back home. So the units would be based at a port but would act at a distance.

5/ Split AS role into escort, intercept and patrol - intercept would not always be available as it would require some ground control system including early warning a la fighter Command in BoB. Escort would not intercept but would give more effort to fighting against interceptors. Patrol would either fight at reduced effectiveness (due only a few a/c in the air at any time) and/or result in increaed fatigue and unserviceability due use of aircraft for no great purpose.

this "system" might be switchable on/off depending on whether the designer wanted to add the level of complexity.
Post #: 1
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 1:09:17 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
3/ Some ability to prioritise supply - I have lots of thoughts on that one but will hang onto them for a bit 'cos I wouldn't want to confuse y'all


Good idea. Another might be to split up the various kinds of supply, say, ammo and food. If you're out of ammo, no shooting. If you're out of food, no moving. Or something. like that.

Also, a more user friendly editor would be a God-send. Say some tool-tip hints or something.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 2
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 1:13:06 AM   
m5000.2006


Posts: 168
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline 		6/ the ability to edit most things (e.g. terrain, units) from within the game editor

although i think that with a bit of effort, editable terrain could perhaps come with toaw 3...

< Message edited by m5000.2006 -- 4/4/2007 1:14:06 AM >

_____________________________

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't much care where –" said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.
LC

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 3
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 4:29:57 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Larry if you're going to split supply then there are 3 aspects to it - ammo, food, fuel. 

Ammo can also be usefully split into heavy and light - essentially artillery & small arms (up to say 20mm), but that's definitely optional.

As you say you can fight without fuel (even mech units, 'cos really 0 fuel means bugger-all fuel but not none), you can fight and move without food but not as well, and you can move without ammo.

This is definitely part of my schema!!

(in reply to m5000.2006)
Post #: 4
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 7:12:52 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		can I add>
A. Interdiction..
Ability to limit the ranges of all flights including interdiction
Ability to interdict sea units by air

Ground reactive mobile troops..

Ability to assign replacement squads/equipment toggle on/off

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 5
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 7:20:32 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		What do yuo mean by "ground reactive mobile troops"?

Interdiction of naval reminds me that there should be specific anti-naval training for air units - this was not always the case, for example the LW had next-to-no such training in 1940 in the Channel convoy attacks.  And they would ahve been next to useless vs teh RN if Sea Lion had been launched - it also had no armour piercing bombs, and only 1 stafflen of experimental He-111 Torp bombers IIRC - they got their anti-naval training in part from the Italians, who had a very good torpedo arm. by 1941 these deficiencies ahd been addressed as witness Crete and the Malta convoys.

air units are not created equal for naval warfare but probably a simple switch would do - naval strike trained y/n - use 50% strength for naval strikes in open water if not trained. Cf also Argentine AF vs the RN at the Falklands - the Entenards would count as naval strike trained for their Exocets, but the A4's and Mirages using often faulty fused iron bombs would not.

< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 4/4/2007 7:23:05 AM >

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 6
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 9:49:43 AM   
saintsup

 

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From: La Celle Saint-Clouud
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

2/ The ability to allocate and transfer units between formations



... and at least two levels of formation

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Post #: 7
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 10:57:58 AM   
fatehunter

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 11/22/2005
Status: offline 		The ability to switch units in formations would be a awesome. It was done all the time in the real world and would be great here.

unit/formation supply priority too. (rebuild my para's!)

(in reply to saintsup)
Post #: 8
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 12:03:09 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		I would quite like the ability to name the commanders of my various units - makes it more personal somehow. And the naval warfare model (what there is of it) needs an overhaul.

Best wishes,


_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to fatehunter)
Post #: 9
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 12:25:17 PM   
Boonierat


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From: The Boonies
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fatehunter

The ability to switch units in formations would be a awesome. It was done all the time in the real world and would be great here.

unit/formation supply priority too. (rebuild my para's!)


Yep, what would be cool also is a pyramidal chain of command, where a formation could have several subordinate formations etc...


_____________________________


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Post #: 10
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/4/2007 6:34:07 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
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From: niflheim
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Boonierat


quote:

ORIGINAL: fatehunter

The ability to switch units in formations would be a awesome. It was done all the time in the real world and would be great here.

unit/formation supply priority too. (rebuild my para's!)


Yep, what would be cool also is a pyramidal chain of command, where a formation could have several subordinate formations etc...



And that chain of command could then also be used for supply distribution.

_____________________________

http://thetoawbeachhead.wordpress.com

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Post #: 11
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 2:23:39 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Good point!

also the ability to set force co-operation levels for parts of formations - eg working with Buzz on his next FitE mod, I'd like to see German divisional artillery set to internal only - it was pretty much tied to its infantry regiments only and could not provide support to otehr divisions.  However that means the whole division would ahve to be on internal support, which would limit its ability to attack with other divisions, which would be wrong.....

So which is the greater evil - having German divisional artillery support all and sundry, or having cross-divisional attacks sometimes take longer?

(in reply to Telumar)
Post #: 12
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 4:13:46 PM   
Legun

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Cracow, Poland
Status: offline 		You can change colour of artillery units (Do you remember my Forgotten Batlles? ;)). If you set all formations for Force Support you get such effect: all infantry regiments can cooperate without any limits, but artillery can support own infantry only.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 13
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 5:25:31 PM   
Zort

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		So what I see you have done in your forgotten battles sce is make the HQ a different background color then the rest of the divisional units. In FITE all the german regular army units are grey, each div is it's own formation and is set on force support. The art is in the Div HQ. Does the HQ art support other divs set up like this? But in your sce the HQ are a different background color then the rest of the formation I don't see how they support anyone...still trying to understand the support concepts.

(in reply to Legun)
Post #: 14
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 5:32:05 PM   
Veers


Posts: 1324
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		The different background colour means that those HQs will have limited coop with any other units that have a diff background colour, however, since they are in the same formation as the rest of their division, they support that division with full support. You can have very colour in the rainbow, as long as they are in the same formation, they will support each other just fine.

_____________________________

To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.

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Post #: 15
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 7:37:07 PM   
Zort

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Great so that means I can change the HQ's to a different background color (the same background if I want) and I can then get the effect that SMK wants. Cool.

(in reply to Veers)
Post #: 16
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 8:28:21 PM   
m5000.2006


Posts: 168
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline 		* the ability to lay/clear mines wouldn't be a bad idea, IMHO, especially for scenarios at company/batallion level

of course, those who don't like it, wouldn't use it, but it could generally offer scenario designers more choices...


but again, i don't understand why we have to wait for t4 to get that...

< Message edited by m5000.2006 -- 4/5/2007 8:31:36 PM >

_____________________________

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't much care where –" said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.
LC

(in reply to Zort)
Post #: 17
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 8:37:07 PM   
Veers


Posts: 1324
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		This thread was created by a player, not a designer, nor a beta tester. Thereofre, these features, many of which have already been dicussed, either here, or at TDG, or at GS, could be seen in TOAW III, or not at all.

_____________________________

To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.

(in reply to m5000.2006)
Post #: 18
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 8:42:30 PM   
m5000.2006


Posts: 168
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline 		...and a new minimap - floating, capable of being scaled, movable, enabling quick hops from place to place



_____________________________

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't much care where –" said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.
LC

(in reply to m5000.2006)
Post #: 19
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/5/2007 9:57:18 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veers
...these features, many of which have already been dicussed, either here, or at TDG, or at GS, could be seen in TOAW III, or not at all.


So um....some of the features that have already been discussed were considered by the beta testing team and were deemed game engine breakers. By that I mean that it ( they ) would have required a complete re-write of the game engine, and that was considered a no-no given that it was desired that T3 come out asap. So some of the features discussed WILL have to be defered to T4 or later. At least that's the understanding of this beta tester.

(in reply to Veers)
Post #: 20
Captured Weapons ToaW 4 - 4/6/2007 3:49:21 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline 		Captured weapons need to be realistically modeled. In WWII the Germans had entire battalions outfitted with captured French tanks. In 1918 they had more British Mk IV and V tanks than A7Vs. Use of captured weapons could also include support vehicles, artillery, aircraft and ships. Rifles, MGs, mortars, ATGs and RPGs might be too far in to the noise for scenarios at or above regiment level, but for scenarios below regimental level this might be an option.

As TOAW is now, the side losing a battle always has the damaged equipment added to their replacement list . . . the side that actually advanced into the ground (thereby acquiring the damaged goods) captures nothing. Maybe there should be a way to set the TO&E up so that major pieces of enemy equipment can be made available to the side that captures the ground.

Now . . . wouldn’t that make a mess of the TO&Es in the North African campaign games!!

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 21
RE: Captured Weapons ToaW 4 - 4/6/2007 3:57:32 AM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline 		I like the idea. Also can be applied for supplies (Ardennes i.e.). Then TOAW 4(?) would be the first wargame taking this into regard afaik.

_____________________________

http://thetoawbeachhead.wordpress.com

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 22
RE: Captured Weapons ToaW 4 - 4/6/2007 3:57:39 AM   
Scout_Pilot

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline 		I'd settle for more unit and formation slots.  We got more events with TOAW III; how's 'bout more units and formations?

_____________________________

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
George S. Patton

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 23
IGYG & WEGO - 4/6/2007 3:59:46 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline 		For TOAW IV, hex side rivers and WEGO. 

Who knows  .  .  .  maybe there could be both an IGYG and a WEGO version of TOAW IV.  Then both sides would be content.  As I dream on and on  .  .  . 

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 24
RE: IGYG & WEGO - 4/6/2007 4:37:30 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
For TOAW IV, hex side rivers and WEGO. 

Who knows  .  .  .  maybe there could be both an IGYG and a WEGO version of TOAW IV.  Then both sides would be content.  As I dream on and on  .  .  . 


I'll bet that somebody somewhere is probably working on a sortof rough clone of TOAW that has the Master setup on a server and there are client(s) to be downloaded onto the players machine so that WEGO would be trivially simple to implement. Somebody run this by Dayrinni....he's good at programming.

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 25
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/6/2007 5:26:12 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veers

This thread was created by a player, not a designer, nor a beta tester. Thereofre, these features, many of which have already been dicussed, either here, or at TDG, or at GS, could be seen in TOAW III, or not at all.


Yep - it's entirely possible they're there & I just don't know about them!

I hadn't forgotten forgotten battles....I just hadn't recognised the characteristics since I'm only a part-time assistant game design advisor's gofer

Changing the HQ colour is indeed a good idea - thanks for that

< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 4/6/2007 5:27:53 AM >

(in reply to Veers)
Post #: 26
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/6/2007 5:34:21 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Oh yeah - one other thing came to mind - the P1/P2 assymetry has been discussed here before and I see some discussion of WEGO above, but I was wondering if an easier alternative would be to give each player their own end-turn phase immediately before or after their turn, rather than doing them both together?

So if htey are run immediately before each turn the first thing that hapens in a game is Player 1's "end turn", then player 1 has 1st turn, then player 2's "end turn" is run, then player 2 has his turn 1 (or hers as appropriate..;)), then P1 has his end turn and runs his turn 2, then p2 has an end turn & runs T2...etc.

It makes sense to me....

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 27
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/6/2007 5:48:42 AM   
Veers


Posts: 1324
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

quote:

ORIGINAL: Veers

This thread was created by a player, not a designer, nor a beta tester. Thereofre, these features, many of which have already been dicussed, either here, or at TDG, or at GS, could be seen in TOAW III, or not at all.


Yep - it's entirely possible they're there & I just don't know about them!

I hadn't forgotten forgotten battles....I just hadn't recognised the characteristics since I'm only a part-time assistant game design advisor's gofer

Changing the HQ colour is indeed a good idea - thanks for that

I wasn't suggesting that they may already be in the game, just that they may end up being in T3, T4, or not at all.

_____________________________

To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 28
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/6/2007 5:50:22 AM   
Veers


Posts: 1324
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Oh yeah - one other thing came to mind - the P1/P2 assymetry has been discussed here before and I see some discussion of WEGO above, but I was wondering if an easier alternative would be to give each player their own end-turn phase immediately before or after their turn, rather than doing them both together?

So if htey are run immediately before each turn the first thing that hapens in a game is Player 1's "end turn", then player 1 has 1st turn, then player 2's "end turn" is run, then player 2 has his turn 1 (or hers as appropriate..;)), then P1 has his end turn and runs his turn 2, then p2 has an end turn & runs T2...etc.

It makes sense to me....


THis has been suggested, and, if memory serves, is one of James' ways of solving P1/P2 assymetry.

_____________________________

To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 29
RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/10/2007 4:29:49 AM   
m5000.2006


Posts: 168
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline 		i think the max map size is 300x300 now

do you consider making it bigger in one of the next patches?

400x400 or 500x500?

would allow making really huge, detailed maps


< Message edited by m5000.2006 -- 4/10/2007 4:30:16 AM >

_____________________________

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't much care where –" said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.
LC

(in reply to Veers)
Post #: 30
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