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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med!

 
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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/9/2007 10:08:41 PM   
Roger Neilson II


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Roger

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/9/2007 10:38:30 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


That makes sense...perhaps the coast road could have the rail movement rate...it is fully paved. I suppose the leg infantry would move too fast.



I thought about it....only problem is that 'Rail' hex movement would maximize the movement of supplies which would be counter-productive to the SPS port changes i made in an "attempt" to simulate the supply stretch Rommel experienced. Road hex terrain is probably the best "compromise" between movement rates and supply spoilage.



Ah..yes...I can see your point. Of course, there really was a rail line form Egypt to the Mersah Metruh area. Except the Brits declined to give Rommel any locomotives or rolling stock. Still, even with the WITP game mechanics limitiations, a rail heading from Alexandria to Mersah Matruh would benefit the Brits the most.

It is nice how El Alemain becomes the geographic choke point in Egypt.


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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 12:05:53 AM   
Speedysteve

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

"There were critical periods during the war in the Med where much of the incoming supply was interdicted which led to serious problems for Rommel." What means much? the biggest interdiction was 62% in Nov41;  Rommel never had any fuel/amno problems due to convoy interdiction his problem was that there wasnt a good supply line in the Desert since Italian Army didnt had enough vehicles for the size of the whole army in Africa. The same problem plagged German Army in Soviet Union were millions of horses had to be used.


As Nik says. I disagree with this.

Neither the Italian or German army was fully mobilised but at the same time it was a struggle to get enough supply and material to NA from Italy.

Sea and air interdiction led to this lack of material being available for Rommel.

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 12:06:27 AM   
ctangus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Yes.

The idea was to allow rapid mechanized movement in more than one row of hexes creating better opportunities for flanking attacks. This way players can't simply stack a bunch of LCU's in the base hexes (hoping for trench warefare...as its looking to turn out in my game with Chuck at Bardi) Now one has to watch the flanks and guard them....even keep a reserve in the backfield to protect supply lines.

As mentioned too...there's also the issue of 30 mile hexes but with 60 mile movement.


I think your intelligence officers are exaggerating the British strength at Barce. From what I've read the Italians did overestimate the British strength at times historically. However, in our game I've only ordered one combat unit forward so far, and that is further to the east. I'm simply hoping Barce can sustain one or two attacks...

You bring up a good point though - is there anything to prevent an allied player rushing everything forward? Is there a credible threat to the flanks? (E.g. a seaborne landing at Mersa Matruh if that's left ungarrisoned?)

Also, maybe add some roads or trails in the Benghazi-Barce area? IIRC the terrain there was rougher than further south but not necessarily impassible.

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 12:53:47 AM   
Dili

 

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quote:

You don't consider 62% a large chunk?


Sure i consider it if it was consistent. The following months: December41 18%; Jan42 0,07%; Fev42 0,84%; Mars42 17,3%; April42 0,78% (this was the top month in whole war- more than 150000t sent to Africa).

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 5:54:17 AM   
Nikademus


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quote:


Sure i consider it if it was consistent.


It was consistent enough, (when the UK had the resources to act), to help contribute to Rommel's defeat when added to the other logistical challenges he faced.

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:28:09 AM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ctangus

You bring up a good point though - is there anything to prevent an allied player rushing everything forward? Is there a credible threat to the flanks? (E.g. a seaborne landing at Mersa Matruh if that's left ungarrisoned?)

Also, maybe add some roads or trails in the Benghazi-Barce area? IIRC the terrain there was rougher than further south but not necessarily impassible.


I'm thinking about adding a second set of road terrain that would allow flank movements in the Barce area but i'm not sure on it. Technically there's already a flank available (the shortcut). Basically i'm undecided and almost want to flip a coin

The 3 hex deep movement friendly terrain starting near Tobruk should allow plenty of flank ops in theory though the RN of course might be able to supply cut off units unless they take too much heat.

Looking at British Rear Area units, starting at Marsha Matruh, we have 1st SA div.....partially disabled:








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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:29:18 AM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		moving on to Alexandria we have the following:






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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:29:50 AM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

moving on to Alexandria we have the following:







Of these forces, only the two Brigades are at full strength (0% disablements)



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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:30:37 AM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		9th Aus Div: decent AV but weakened and needing rest.






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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:31:24 AM   
Nikademus


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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:32:31 AM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		Moving on to Palastine (Haifa) we have several more units rebuilding / working up






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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:33:03 AM   
Nikademus


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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:33:37 AM   
Nikademus


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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:35:51 AM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		The UK's strongest rear area force (reserve) is 5th Indian currently garrisoning an island base. I suppose this unit is the best candident for a "rush forward" defense








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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 8:22:45 AM   
pauk


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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/04/42

Enemy ac spoted our TF south of Crete and i have to cancel their mission - bombarding of Tobruk. The good thing is my recon spoted enemy TF at Tobruk so we just avoided a major dissaster...other than that no big news...


Day Air attack on Benghazi , at 45,128

Japanese aircraft
Z-1007 Bis x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
Z-1007 Bis: 7 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 15000 feet
6 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
Bf-109F-4 x 19
Ju-88A-4 x 20
Bf-109F-4 R2 Recon x 2

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ju-88A-4: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
Bf-109F-4 R2 Recon: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ju-88A-4 bombing at 26900 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
SM 79 x 8
IMAM Ro-37 x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
SM 79 : 8 damaged

Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x SM 79 bombing at 23000 feet
3 x SM 79 bombing at 23000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
SM 84 x 18

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
SM 84: 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc: 1 destroyed
Spitfire Vc: 1 destroyed

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x SM 84 bombing at 25900 feet
4 x SM 84 bombing at 25900 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 15th Panzer , at 45,130


Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc x 21
Spitfire Vc x 3
Blenheim IV x 12
Hudson I x 3


Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc: 2 damaged
Blenheim IV: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
72 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Vehicles lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Blenheim IV bombing at 8000 feet
11 x Hurricane IIc bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Blenheim IV bombing at 8000 feet
8 x Hurricane IIc bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 8000 feet
3 x Blenheim IV bombing at 8000 feet
2 x Hurricane IIc bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Blenheim IV bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Indian Brigade, at 44,129

Japanese aircraft
Z-1007 Bis x 13

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Indian Brigade, at 44,129

Japanese aircraft
MC-202 x 15
Bf-109F-4 Trop x 31
Ju-87 D (Ger) x 20

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
16 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ju-87 D (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet
13 x Bf-109F-4 Trop bombing at 2000 feet
15 x MC-202 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Indian Brigade, at 44,129

Japanese aircraft
SM 79 x 15
MC-200 x 47
Ju-88A-4 x 14

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
17 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ju-88A-4 bombing at 15000 feet
3 x SM 79 bombing at 15000 feet
4 x SM 79 bombing at 15000 feet
21 x MC-200 bombing at 2000 feet
20 x MC-200 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SM 79 bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ju-88A-4 bombing at 15000 feet
4 x SM 79 bombing at 15000 feet
3 x MC-200 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x MC-200 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
BR 20 M x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
BR 20 M: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x BR 20 M bombing at 15000 feet

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:00:06 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


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Status: offline 		Been keeping an eye on this mod , looks like fun and Nik's ability to add more (him being able to travel back in time and spend 72 hours work in one day is invaluable ).

Just for the record it;ll take a LOT for me to be an italian fanboy , come on the brits, don't let O'connor get captured (whoops too late )

have fun u 2 ..

< Message edited by Rob Brennan UK -- 4/10/2007 6:01:15 PM >

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:05:28 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Erm Nik, why haven't you added the "division" suffix to the 7th and 10th Armoured? That doesn't turn them into infantry units...

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:09:53 PM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		hmm....looks like a boo boo on my part. removed the redundant tank suffix...forgot to add the division. good catch.

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:11:35 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		I have no doubt that Allied interdiction of Axis convoys had an impact on Rommel's supply. I am able to say this because Avalon Hill's Afika Korps had a little table to roll for Axis supply each turn.

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:16:54 PM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		Douglas Porch, author of "The Path to Victory: The Med. Theater in WWII" agrees with you too.

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:18:05 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Erm Nik, why haven't you added the "division" suffix to the 7th and 10th Armoured? That doesn't turn them into infantry units...


The TO&E's still worry me. They don't match in many cases.


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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:19:40 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Erm Nik, why haven't you added the "division" suffix to the 7th and 10th Armoured? That doesn't turn them into infantry units...


The TO&E's still worry me. They don't match in many cases.



Not surprising, unfortunately...

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:29:18 PM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		Less familiar with this area of the editor though building the new land devices and creating the German LCU's was intuitive enough. I didn't see off the bat a way to match up the TO&E. Have you done this for your mod? Fremen? any advice?

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:32:48 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Why can't you just modify the TO&E?

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 6:48:50 PM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		because to be honest, the TOE template setup in the wpl.pws (location) file confused me a bit. I'd not worked it before. I can see the TOE templates, but didn't see in the editor where you "connected" them to actual LCU units. Does that makes sense?

Been working so many angles of the mod its easy to get confused. I recently discovered that some of the base locations retained values i think left over from WitP....example,.......Tobruk, listed as "Jungle/Forest" I think that might be causing movement snafu's. Fremen can correct me if i'm wrong...

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 4/10/2007 6:50:42 PM >

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 7:18:21 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		In the official editor, there's a textbox called "Formation". That's where you enter the slot number of the TO&E you want to link the LCU to.



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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 7:49:01 PM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		ah....thx. For some reason my eyes kept passing over it.

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 7:59:39 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Either too much coffee, or not enough...

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RE: Attenzione (Achtung)!: Il Pauk schools Speedy in Med! - 4/10/2007 8:09:24 PM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		well there was alot of plates i was juggling. It was all very complicated......

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