Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

No navy for China.

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ORIGINAL: Subetai

There is an important possibility for the China - Japan theatre that MWIF allows for more than the boardgame, and that is mutual peace between China and Japan (this might have been discussed elsewhere but can't find it).  Why this might occur is addressed below.

CC and NC will have one AIO (which I agree with), but in a board game the CC are played by the RU (and the NC usually by the US). This means that if (for whatever reason) the JP player offers a peace, it rarely happens, because its not in the RU or US interest for a peace. The point of this post is to suggest that if the JP players offers a peace (lets say back to 1936 borders - so just Manchuria and none of Occupied China), that the Chinese AIO (CC and NC) would most times agree. (Happy to have historial discussion off line).

The CC and NC would then try to occupy the vacated cities, and importantly Shanghai (Victory City). This is then consistent with the AIO trying to do the best for ITSELF (and not be abused by the RU or US player)!

Why would JP offer this? Cost benefit analysis! The cost to conquer, or at least capture more resources in China, is high. As is the effort to garrison China. The JP player could well assess that, in say early 1942 (to use historial timelines) that the new resources captured (importantly oil - none in China) in the south are enough to maintain the war effort (bearing in mind a reduced land unit requirement).

THis is not a gamey strategy, but entirely plausable and within the rules of the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I think the priorities for Chinese production in the later stages are:
1) Air units to strat Japanese targets, flip Japanese for Chinese/US/Soviet attacks, or activate searches in China/South China Seas on US land impulses (using the lend-lease NAV)
2) O-chits to bust up Japanese lines (if there are any on the new map in the late-game) or seize key strongholds
3) Lend-lease to USSR
4) Navy

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Lend-lease to USSR can be managed through Manchuria if either you or the USSR has taken it. And once USA has (a) passed 'Lend-Lease to USSR and (b) gone to war with Germany you can lend all the bps you want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Hm. Have read through rule and you are correct. I did hear of some one actually doing that (and lending a lot of bps) so I guess they and their Axis opponents must have dropped the ball on the rules (not unheard of in WiF given the number of rules to remember).

All the same, if as the Chinese I get the opportunity to lend, over land, to USSR I would do that over building navy. Even subs take 1 year to build and if you start them in 1942-43 you probably won't need them by the time they arrive on the map.

If anything, as China I would built sealift over subs with the intention (as discussed on previous pages of this topic) of attacking Formosa. In 1944 if Japan is too strong for the US to send its Pacific fleet into the China Sea then the Chinese subs will be of little or no use, and if the Japanese are too weak to stop the US then the Chinese subs will be of little or no use.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99


All the same, if as the Chinese I get the opportunity to lend, over land, to USSR I would do that over building navy. Even subs take 1 year to build and if you start them in 1942-43 you probably won't need them by the time they arrive on the map.

If anything, as China I would built sealift over subs with the intention (as discussed on previous pages of this topic) of attacking Formosa. In 1944 if Japan is too strong for the US to send its Pacific fleet into the China Sea then the Chinese subs will be of little or no use, and if the Japanese are too weak to stop the US then the Chinese subs will be of little or no use.

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ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Ideas on the AIOs Strategic Plan - China

China’s strategic planning is limited and they have to adjust its decisions depending on which strategic plan Japan has chosen. Specifically what the raising sun wants do to in china.

Japanese strategic options:

1) Historical:
• Try to establish a neutrality pact with the USSR.
• Attack China.
• Expand rapidly across the Pacific to create the historical co-prosperity sphere.

2) Early DOW USSR
• DOW the USSR early aiming to capture resources and the Vladivostok Factory.
• Then attack China, to contain them and capture resources.
• Expand rapidly across the Pacific to create the historical co-prosperity sphere.

3) Crush the Commonwealth / Commonwealth First, USA Second
• Try establish a neutrality pact with the USSR.
• Defend in China. China becomes a sideshow, and the Pacific war begins much sooner.
• DOW Commonwealth early and capture as many of its possessions as possible
• Later DOW the USA.

China also the have to face what agenda the Japanese have with their attacks in china.

Major Japanese Objective:
• Destroy the Communists
• Destroy the Nationalist

Minor Japanese Objective:
• Capture resources
• Keep Chinese forces from growing in strength
…

With the all the above in mind, a simple strategic plan and strategic plan transition could be like this for China:

Strategic plan #1 Defend against Japan stays in effect until:
(1) Japanese threaten core areas, in which case plan #2 goes into effect.
(2) The threat to Chinese holdings from Japan is extinguished, in which case plan #3 goes into effect.

Strategic plan #2 Defend core areas, stays in effect until:
(1) The threat to the core areas from Japan is extinguished, in which case plan #1 goes into effect.
(2) The situation is hopeless, in which case plan #4 goes into effect.

Strategic plan #3 Offensive against Japan, stays in effect until:
(1) There is a threat to Chinese holdings from Japan, in which case plan #1 goes into effect.

Strategic plan #4 Surrender China, stays in effect until:
(1) China is liberated, in which case plan #2 goes into effect.

Comments/what have I missed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Isn't it a thread for China, I know it's related but if we are talking about a strategy on how Japan should launch an offensive in China, maybe that should go in the AI for MWiF - Japan thread?

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Isn't it a thread for China, I know it's related but if we are talking about a strategy on how Japan should launch an offensive in China, maybe that should go in the AI for MWiF - Japan thread?

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ORIGINAL: Centuur

I wonder. Are the warlord units now able to walk through the whole province they are build in? Now the map has got more hexes, they should be able to move a little more...

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ORIGINAL: brian brian

for setting up WarLord units, I thought it was:

"All Warlord units set up in every game on their home city"



I'm betting MWiF will automatically change the color of the unit based on who controls the city though....

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ORIGINAL: composer99

Since I've been thinking a bit about other major powers' strategic bombing options, I figured I should bring up China's.

The Chinese will usually rely on lend-lease LND4 for strategic bombing (the two paltry 5-range LND3 with 1 strat factor apiece in their force pools being on the inadequate side). With the WiF base and Planes in Flames units they can get two 9-range LND4 from the US with 6 strat factors and extended range option, and one 11-range LND4 from the USSR with 5 strat factors and ATR capability. Given the small size of the Chinese air force (they only get two other lend-lease bombers, period, if I am not mistaken), it is not unreasonable to suggest that a Chinese side which is not too crippled early on will have all three of these LND4 on the map.

The most likely targets for Chinese strategic bombing are the red factories in Canton & Shanghai. The best forward bases to strike these, if playing with the extra cities, are Chihkiang and Ichang; if these are occupied by the Japanese then Chungking or Kweiyang will have to do.

If the Chinese can muster all three LND4 into a raid that can burn down a factory, I personally see no reason not to try. Unless they do exceptionally well, the Chinese will probably not recapture either city until quite late in a game (if ever!).

Less likely targets (because the Nationalists need to make significant late-war gains to be in range to hit them) are the factories in Manchuria or even Japan.

A secondary purpose of the Chinese strategic air campaign is to tie down Japanese FTR to defending these targets when the Japanese would rather have them near the front or fighting the US/CW/USSR, or to force Japan to decide between committing FTR against some combination of port strikes, naval air, tactical strikes, or strategic raids (or even better, fail to commit the FTR against any of these for fear of losing use of the FTR).