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Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 7:38:42 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		Wow. Am I the first to notice? Okay, well then, go to wargamer.com and you'll see the results of the voting for the Readers' Choice Awards.

Congratulations to Matrix for Publisher of the Year!



< Message edited by Gil R. -- 5/6/2007 7:40:31 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 8:22:43 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		My, oh my, what a stinging rebuke to shill-meister Jim Cobb, front-man for the joke of the year, Distant Guns, from Storm Eagle Studios! Forgive me, if I scrolled the results too hastily, but it appears as though the REAL wargaming community gave no recognition, WHATSOVER to DG, Cobb's inglorious role in attempting to suppress the genuine nature of the product, notwithstanding. That he INTENTIONALLY attempted to use his credentials as an erstwhile/independent game reviewer to silence it's critics is all the more despicable and should for all intents and purposes REMOVE his opinion from the map as relates to the SERIOUS evaluation of wargaming products. For anyone interested in the current disposition of DG, you can eyeball the state of Cobb's flounder here:

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/distant-guns/65931-who-still-playing-distant-guns-just-checking.html

Here's laughing-my-ass-off at your buddy's POS, jimbo!

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 5/6/2007 8:34:48 AM >

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Post #: 2
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 8:42:37 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		The right results in the 'important' catagories, IMHO, although I rate Birth of America marginally above Forge of Freedom.

I've never played Distant Guns as the scenario just didn't interest me (Jutland and I'd have been there). You may well be right about about it and Mr Cobb, but the thought does occur that it's poor showing may well just indicate others thought the same as me and that simply more people bought the other titles?

Well done Matrix! It's hard to see any real competition really, considering both quantity and quality. HPS doesn't have the range of product (and presentation always let's their stuff down), Prosim alone can't carry Shrapnel and Paradox only enters the running at all as a wargame publisher because they distributed TC:2nd Mannassas.

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 3
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 9:02:01 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston
Well done Matrix!

Yes, indeed.

The "wargaming-bidness," having imploded in the last decade, has left a lot of folks at a loss as to where to turn for quality products. I would respectfully submit that Matrix is one of the few conduits upon which I (we) can truly rely in this regard.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


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Post #: 4
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 9:14:07 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston
Well done Matrix!

Yes, indeed.

The "wargaming-bidness," having imploded in the last decade, has left a lot of folks at a loss as to where to turn for quality products. I would respectfully submit that Matrix is one of the few conduits upon which I (we) can truly rely in this regard.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)




I'll third what you both have said!

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Post #: 5
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 9:55:46 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		Awwww Take Command 2nd Manassass beat out COTA Awwwww And Forge of Freedom beat out BOA Awwww.  I agree with the game of the year selection. Kinda think Forge of Freedom shoulda come in 2nd though, but, those people who make 1000 accounts to skew the votes and polls will most always get their titles selected. There was no voting security for this wargamers site voting and when you have no security in voting you will have skewed results like MTW2 winning strategy game of the year. lol That's the biggest joke of the whole feature.

As far as the wargames publisher list, how many "well known" ones are there? But, congrats to Matrixgames for coming in 1st of the usual 3. hehe What they need to create is a "Best Price for Wargames site" award, I betcha Matrixgames wouldn't win THAT one. haha Gogamers 48 hours sales are the grandest and Amazon.com has some excellent sales as well and even NWS has some pretty good prices all the time on most all wargame titles. For instance how many of you know you can get the boxed version WITH manual (of the games that have printed manuals) for the SAME price as others pay for direct download WITHOUT a printed manual? Did yah know that? :)

At any rate I'm glad to see Mad Minute get its place in the spotlight and Forge of Freedom coming in at least 3rd for Game of the Year and Wargame of the Year. It would beat AEGOD's CW game as well I'm pretty sure. ;)

(in reply to Zap)
Post #: 6
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 11:47:34 AM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Status: offline 		So, just to understand:

Forge of Freedom should have been #2 in the GOTY category.

The reason it was not #2 is because COTA was in that place.

You state that the reason this happened was "Forge of Freedom shoulda come in 2nd though, but, those people who make 1000 accounts to skew the votes and polls will most always get their titles selected. "

So, you are saying Panther Games fraudulently got COTA rated #2?

I am sure that cannot be what you meant, and is just a case of unfortunate wording.

Re MTW2...I guess it got the #1 slot because a lot of people like it (not because Activision loaded the votes). At the time it came out a number of people slammed it in The Wargamer forums, but it looked like a sizeable majority liked it a lot. I certainly do.

< Message edited by Hartford688 -- 5/6/2007 11:57:13 AM >

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 7
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 11:55:36 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
...For instance how many of you know you can get the boxed version WITH manual (of the games that have printed manuals) for the SAME price as others pay for direct download WITHOUT a printed manual? Did yah know that? :)

I don't know what game(s) you are talking about, but in general, you're looking at a $10 difference. That's £5 in real money to me.

To be honest, I'd rather give Matrix an extra £5 - even £10 - for the same title to help them stay in business and provide me with my hobby. Any more than that and I would take it as being "ripped off" and my support dries up

I'm not a fanboi. I just like to support my hobby. Being ripped off isn't an option, but an extra £10 for the company that provides me with the titles I have on my computer and enjoy thoroughly....if it helps them to stay in business, then I'm game for it.

I understand that other people may not be in that boat, and I don't judge (pun intended) them for it. And I don't have money to burn, either. Loyalty has a financial ceiling

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(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 8
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 12:01:57 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I also think Puresim Baseball should be congratulated for bronze in the Simulation category.

It turned me into a baseball fan and I fire it up almost every night for a quick game.

But congrats to Matrix. Good result on Publisher of the Year (probably due to your dedicated support, listening to customers (printed manuals anyone?) and your wide range of games).


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Alba gu' brath

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Post #: 9
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 12:43:54 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
but, those people who make 1000 accounts to skew the votes and polls will most always get their titles selected.


Never mind faking a thousand different IP addresses to post it from - at 5 minutes per vote to set this all up it only takes 3.5 days to get your favourite game to the top

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx




(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 10
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 12:52:02 PM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Status: offline 		I agree...I think the results were pretty reasonable. Might quibble one up or down, but to me no outrageous outliers.

I was off to get Ageod's AACW, but this reminds me to go back and spend more time with TC2M, MTW2 and Il2-1946 first.

And maybe divvy up finally for COTA...I never bought it as I cannot find enough books about the theatre to get fully immersed; but maybe I should give it a go. BFTB is a surefire buy though...where's the preorder page? (Hopefully will still be below Arjuna's true price of $200 though!)

< Message edited by Hartford688 -- 5/6/2007 12:53:42 PM >

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 11
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 12:57:20 PM   
Widell


Posts: 913
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: Trollhättan, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
but, those people who make 1000 accounts to skew the votes and polls will most always get their titles selected.

Never mind faking a thousand different IP addresses to post it from - at 5 minutes per vote to set this all up it only takes 3.5 days to get your favourite game to the top

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


The measures some people will take to achieve such greatness....

_____________________________


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Post #: 12
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 1:15:08 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
but, those people who make 1000 accounts to skew the votes and polls will most always get their titles selected.


Never mind faking a thousand different IP addresses to post it from - at 5 minutes per vote to set this all up it only takes 3.5 days to get your favourite game to the top

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx






Lol how little you know about the world of botting votes.

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 13
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 1:39:17 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Lol how little you know about the world of botting votes.


You seem to know a lot about it.

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(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 14
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 1:56:46 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Lol how little you know about the world of botting votes.


Admitedly I don't - but I'll look into it for next year's vote just to make sure Battles from the Bulge gets the gold

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 15
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 1:57:49 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Lol how little you know about the world of botting votes.


Admitedly I don't - but I'll look into it for next year's vote just to make sure Battles from the Bulge gets the gold

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



Game series speaks for itself...you wouldn't have to do that.

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 16
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 2:02:34 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Lol how little you know about the world of botting votes.


You seem to know a lot about it.


Yeah, he bought a book about it from the bargain bin once.

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
instagram stream

(in reply to JJKettunen)
Post #: 17
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 5:18:55 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

My, oh my, what a stinging rebuke to shill-meister Jim Cobb, front-man for the joke of the year, Distant Guns, from Storm Eagle Studios! Forgive me, if I scrolled the results too hastily, but it appears as though the REAL wargaming community gave no recognition, WHATSOVER to DG, Cobb's inglorious role in attempting to suppress the genuine nature of the product, notwithstanding.


What is your problem with DG? While I agree that everything about this game except the binary code - marketing, distribution, price, patching policy, community services etc etc . - seems to be taken from some imaginary book named "How NOT to make games", the core game itself is very good, and certainly step in the right direction.

So, again, what's your gripe with DG?

BTW, I applaud them for voting Red Orchestra game of the year in it's category.

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Post #: 18
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 6:33:32 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

While I agree that everything about this game except the binary code - marketing, distribution, price, patching policy, community services etc etc . - seems to be taken from some imaginary book named "How NOT to make games"...So, again, what's your gripe with DG?



Shall I quote, thee, master?

Seriously, your comments ALMOST sum it up.

But, let me BRIEFLY summarize...

After my experience with those demos and SES, including an orchestrated campaign at various forums to silence folks who took issue with both the substance of Distant Guns and it's implementation, HELL WILL FREEZE OVER before I buy a game from anyone associated with that project. I believe that the game is currently on patch/version #50. Do you realize that it was folks who actually purchased the software that have gotten it that far? They've served as beta-testers for the erstwhile developer/publisher, and have dutifully submitted game-crash logs and other documentation to the programmer for remediation. Oleg, if that doesn't define a shabby product and business culture, then I honestly don't know what does.

We're off topic, btw. That's largely my fault, and I apologize to our hosts for the diversion, brief as it might otherwise be.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

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Post #: 19
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 6:34:27 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline 		..yup, Publisher of the year, s'really cool..and honest..

..and t3 made second some-where else, s'cool..

..i'm a bit nurked that t3 didn't get an expansion award, buuuttt, for a nothing special, base-line game what can you expect..

..carry you on guys, and congratulations..

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(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 20
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 6:42:56 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

My, oh my, what a stinging rebuke to shill-meister Jim Cobb, front-man for the joke of the year, Distant Guns, from Storm Eagle Studios! Forgive me, if I scrolled the results too hastily, but it appears as though the REAL wargaming community gave no recognition, WHATSOVER to DG, Cobb's inglorious role in attempting to suppress the genuine nature of the product, notwithstanding.


What is your problem with DG? While I agree that everything about this game except the binary code - marketing, distribution, price, patching policy, community services etc etc . - seems to be taken from some imaginary book named "How NOT to make games", the core game itself is very good, and certainly step in the right direction.

So, again, what's your gripe with DG?

BTW, I applaud them for voting Red Orchestra game of the year in it's category.


..oh come on, we've t3 scens that equal that, Ben's Rhodes for one, Curt's Vietnam for another, and Bob's NA scens deserve bronze, at least**..does a scen get a vote ? if not, why not ?

..**sorry man, you still ain't got the Italians right, and i'm playing the Italians at the moment..think reeeallly badly organised...


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Post #: 21
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 7:33:24 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		PoE,

A couple of things: Jim Cobb is a good guy and even if you feel he made a mistake in his assessment of DG, that's no reason to get personal. Similarly, you are welcome to discuss DG, but this is not the place to slam it (i.e. calling it a POS), if that's what you want to do. You can post your opinions on it over at the Wargamer or several other wargame sites or forums. I'd appreciate keeping our forums free of this as it can cause people to think that we somehow endorse these comments, which can then lead to inter-developer or inter-publisher flames, etc.

Regards,

- Erik

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 22
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 7:41:34 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

PoE,

A couple of things: Jim Cobb is a good guy and even if you feel he made a mistake in his assessment of DG, that's no reason to get personal. Similarly, you are welcome to discuss DG, but this is not the place to slam it (i.e. calling it a POS), if that's what you want to do. You can post your opinions on it over at the Wargamer or several other wargame sites or forums. I'd appreciate keeping our forums free of this as it can cause people to think that we somehow endorse these comments, which can then lead to inter-developer or inter-publisher flames, etc.

Regards,

- Erik


..or inter-scen-designer ????

....



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Post #: 23
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 8:54:13 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Lol how little you know about the world of botting votes.


You seem to know a lot about it.


Yeah, he bought a book about it from the bargain bin once.


Wow, Marc you haven't responded to one of my posts in a long time, I thought you died or something....darn.

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 24
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 8:59:54 PM   
Huskalator

 

Posts: 212
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Happy to see Red Orchestra get the gold for best action title.  A $20 small developer title crushing major developer titles that cost millions to make and costs $40.  NO WAY!

"...Red Orchestra is the action game for grognards"

Woot and stuff.



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(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 25
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 9:07:12 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

PoE,

A couple of things: Jim Cobb is a good guy and even if you feel he made a mistake in his assessment of DG, that's no reason to get personal. Similarly, you are welcome to discuss DG, but this is not the place to slam it (i.e. calling it a POS), if that's what you want to do. You can post your opinions on it over at the Wargamer or several other wargame sites or forums. I'd appreciate keeping our forums free of this as it can cause people to think that we somehow endorse these comments, which can then lead to inter-developer or inter-publisher flames, etc.

Regards,

- Erik


But, I thought this was a GENERAL discussion forum for and about "any wargames"? When did you change policy? You used to let us (me) slag Paradox all the time here, I know, I am the biggest slagger of Paradox in the world lol. So, are you saying now we can't slag any other games or publishers on this site except Matrixgames and then you'll ban us if we do that or the other? lol You'd be giving up your title as most well known free speech forum around (well that I visit). I like coming here because it doesn't have gestapolike moderation. Why the about face all of a sudden?

I thought this is a centralized point where gamers that buy wargames see the upfront front info and it is our duty as gamers to inform the uninformed of the good and the bad and the ugly out there in the computer wargaming world, from publishers, to developers and even reviewers. They need to hear it here first before they buy. ;) Plus they need to be informed about bargain bin prices. lol

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 26
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 9:39:27 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		That's not true, Ravinhood. We've always discouraged "slagging". We don't discourage criticism of other products, just as ours can be criticized here and elsewhere, but keep it within that line where you're not making what could be a personal attack or an over the top statement.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 27
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 10:24:12 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

That's not true, Ravinhood. We've always discouraged "slagging". We don't discourage criticism of other products, just as ours can be criticized here and elsewhere, but keep it within that line where you're not making what could be a personal attack or an over the top statement.


I think Ravinhood would make a fine contributor to the war-historical newsgroups

Warning : There be Dragons - and things much, much worse

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 28
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 10:25:10 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I thought this is a centralized point where gamers that buy wargames see the upfront front info and it is our duty as gamers to inform the uninformed of the good and the bad and the ugly out there in the computer wargaming world, from publishers, to developers and even reviewers. They need to hear it here first before they buy. ;)


This forum belongs to Matrix Games. The particulars of my beef with the cast of characters surrounding Distant Guns and its phenomenal critical success, notwithstanding, I pledge to take MG's interests into account when I post. I do have to say, however, that I find in this situation such profound irony, that for all the lies spread via USENET, it may end up being the only place where certain truths regarding the wargaming business can be aired publicly.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 29
RE: Wargamer votes are in - 5/6/2007 11:43:47 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

That's not true, Ravinhood. We've always discouraged "slagging". We don't discourage criticism of other products, just as ours can be criticized here and elsewhere, but keep it within that line where you're not making what could be a personal attack or an over the top statement.


Oh ok so if I say Paradox games suk because they are always buggy out of the box and use the same ole donkey milking engine over n over that's ok still? ;) Or if I say I prefer Trotters reviews over Cobbs because his have historical value and Cobbs are long winded and boring with too much information about the interface features and not enough information about the game and the AI or how much challenge it offers, that's ok also? ;)

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 30
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