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RE: Scenarios - 5/21/2007 10:17:07 PM   
La Provence


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British navy forced captured sailors to serve in it's fleet.
For exemple, during napoleonic wars, the equivalent of 3 vessel crew were american ! It's no negligible !

These men caused some revolt, mutiny.
Of course, they were severely quelled.

(in reply to Mardonius)
Post #: 31
RE: Scenarios - 5/22/2007 3:51:57 PM   
iamspamus

 

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Correct, Mardonius. There were SOME others in GB navy, but NO "known" North Africans in their. (Though there could be a few.) The issue is a game issue, that has come up in just about every game I've played of EIA/EIH over 20 years (not consistant play...). The point is that it is AHISTORICAL for the Brits to monopolize North Africa for manpower. Not only that it is a game IMBALANCE that is open to abuse. So, there is usually a house rule on this. That was all that I was saying. I just wanted to make Marshall Ellis and other Game Designers aware of it.

Jason


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mardonius

True, but North Africans were not to be found in the rolls of the British (or any other European) Navy due to cultural differences, which, I believe, is Iamspamus' point.






quote:

ORIGINAL: Paper Tiger

Don't focus so much on units as in infantry and cavalry, GB also has ships and a lot of the sailors and marines were from many other countries. 5% of the sailors in Nelosons fleet were "blacks" equally Portugese, Spanish, and even French sailors were used aboard British ships. Remember that it was the Navy which was the premier service for GB, not the Army.




< Message edited by iamspamus -- 5/22/2007 4:02:48 PM >

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Post #: 32
RE: Scenarios - 5/22/2007 7:54:18 PM   
YohanTM2

 

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Never played a house rule on NA. GB is not over-balanced in this game

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Post #: 33
RE: Scenarios - 5/23/2007 11:01:05 PM   
Paper Tiger

 

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I agree very few North Africans were employed in the British forces, although I would hazard a guess that some were used in the navy as Morocco and Algeria both had a long history of good seamanship.
On the other hand of course there is no game mechanic to represent the small numbers of people from many nations who did end up in British forces due to trade and migration, also after 1807 when Britain abolished the slave trade numbers of Black Africans were liberated from slave ships by the British and some of these along with the liberated slaves from the USA who escaped to Canada and GB also helped to swell the manpower available to the British. 5% of Nelsons navy were black, that equates to 6 SOL in 1805.

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Post #: 34
RE: Scenarios - 5/23/2007 11:14:25 PM   
Paper Tiger

 

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One other point, historically GB did not invade and conquer North Africa and as a result we do not know what would have happened with North African troops in the British army, what I would suggest is that elsewhere where GB did conquer/ally and then employ local forces these troops were well trained. In India the british widely employed sepoy troops and some at least of these forces were of high enough quality to be used in foreign expeditions as previously mentioned. In Portugal where GB allied to the Portugese a EiA game rule already exists to improve native portugese morale after 1 year of control by GB, representing the improved equipment and training. I would suggest that a similar situation should be considered for North Africa, increase the base morale to 1.5 for infantry and 2.5 for Cavalry immediately to represent improved equipment and add a further +1.0 after 12 months. Only allow the manpower to be used in the original free state corps as a "Sepoy" corps and halve the maximum infantry and cavalry size in the corps. A typical N African Corps would then end up with morale 2.5 for Infantry and 3.5 for Cavalry once GB had been in control for long enough to train the troops.
I would of course suggest that this be regarded as a later patch option, even if considered workable.

(in reply to Paper Tiger)
Post #: 35
RE: Scenarios - 5/24/2007 7:53:58 PM   
Murat


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Portuguese were European, not viewed as secondary citizens. Even Indians were not viewed as citizens of the Empire, just the best of the colonial peoples. I always felt that NA represented, for whomever controlled them, a source of cannon fodder. If you do not like Britain getting NA manpower, do something about it - this game is as much about diplomacy as it is about combat. As for increased training benefits, only the Egyptians were ever seen as remotely civilized (i.e.- worthy of training) so I would not add new rules for the British improving NA morale, a stronger case can be made for the French improving conquered morale since the Grand Army that marched on Moscow wasn't very French at all.

< Message edited by Murat -- 6/17/2007 9:56:30 AM >

(in reply to Paper Tiger)
Post #: 36
RE: Scenarios - 5/24/2007 8:51:16 PM   
Hoche


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hello all:

Realizing that version 1.00 will be an EiA / EiH3.0 blend, what do you guys think about a EiA classic scenario with the same map AND counters as the good old AH Bookcase game itself?

What other scnearios would you guys like to see?

Thank you

That would be great. I also would like to see a 1792 campaign.

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(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 37
RE: Scenarios - 6/4/2007 7:44:16 AM   
Camile Desmoulins


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Hello:

I like the original Eia classic scenario. I like teh great campaign scenario, the 1812 & 1813 scenarios are too much definited to some players. I like very much the French revolution scenario, the 1756 (Frederick the Great) and 1740 (very interesting, with the Emperor election as main leit motiv. Any of these scenarios are very good

Camille

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(in reply to La Provence)
Post #: 38
RE: Scenarios - 6/15/2007 5:12:47 PM   
timewalker03

 

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Manpower issues are evened out by having the limited GB corps and 80 factors in the standing army Max. If you were to create Militia with the manpower its still a basic nonfactor because of the morale decline the Militia would have on the main corps. If France is in a bad position then I can see GB having success with North Africa, but if France is strong then GB must intercede in the land war as much as possible which ties up fleets dealing with troop transport. In the 50 or so games I played using the original AH EIA rules Africa was an issue maybe twice. The greater issues of imbalance came with having Austria and Prussia Allied when historically they hated each other and in the game are at a negative with each other. Heck the crossing arrows between Denmark and sweden have cause more game imbalance giving France the shot at sweden by land. But I believe each group of players have different experiences. Even though the original game had flaws it was still fun to play and a lot less taxing than EiH. We made changes to rules at times using the General Mags and like some of the rule variants, but not all. We all have our own experiences and views of the game. I would just like to see a release of something that closely resembles the original AH game and add the rest of the stuff in later. IMO

(in reply to Camile Desmoulins)
Post #: 39
RE: Scenarios - 6/16/2007 6:22:09 PM   
yammahoper

 

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I recall a game were as GB I conquered most of North Africa.  I tried to span out my conquest so I would gain pp, but with the Fr and Tu contesting every war, that never really got me ahead.  Additionally, I ended up in two wars with the Tu, both won, though the second at a great cost of factors from a fight over Egypt (I won all three fights, but I ran with about 11 factors left out of over 50 starting factors).  When that war ended, I had North Africa up to Egypt, but I wasn't scoring enough points to win.  I realized that Fr was more than happy to keep me in the med and he would fund the Tu forever if that kept me off the continent, and that to win, I was going to have focus less on Norht Africa and more on beating down Fr.

Yes, I loved having spare infantry scattered across the map and all that man power.   Once dropped a 30 ship purchase in one eco phase.  However, I believe my "North Arica Strategy" cost me the game, even when in the game GB had a buffed economy, full navy and strong army, it was needed fighting Fr, not preventing the Tu from gaining the Ottoman Empire.

yamma

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Post #: 40
RE: Scenarios - 6/20/2007 5:52:53 AM   
Mardonius


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Paper Tiger:

I think you may be being a little optimistic about the North African British Free State morales. You are correct in that during this period (Napoleonic) there were no UK invasions of North Africa. But there were earlier and later campaigns wherein the British/English were not able to effectively harness regulars into their military. The best earlier example is the English occupation and defense of Tangiers (1662 to 1684). Constant counter insurgency efforts until the British were driven out. In later periods, we see mediocre-to-fair regular Anglo-Egyptian troops under Gordon et alias during the invasion of the Sudan contrasted with the excellence of irregulars under TE Lawrence in WWI. Jordan might be an exception in later periods but, once again, they fought under traditional tribal lines, albeit with British training.

Nor did the French do much better in Algeria from the 1830's to the late 1950s. Some units, yes, were sent to fight in Europe in WWI but they were of no marked quality. WWII Franco-Algerian forces were of minor value to both Vichy and Allied war efforts.
Most of the French effort was in counter-insurgency.

Italy made little use of the Libyans. A few minor forces of minimal value. Eritreans, yes, but that is outside our EiA map. Again, most of the Italian's efforts from 1912 to WWII were spent in keeping the Senussi and others recalcitrant Libyans in line.

Some argument might be made for the Spanish in Morocco as Franco made good use of Moors in the Spanish Civil War. I am not a proponent of this school of thought as I reckon that Bourbon Spain was far too reactionary to stomach any Islamic soldiery, except perhaps for operations outside of Christendom. One might say the same about the opinions of the Moors as well, albeit from a different perspective.

The US's experience in North Africa in 1808 (circa) and their effective use of tribal irregulars to supplement Presley O’Bannon’s (Lt, USMC... Semper Fi!) march from Egypt to the "Shores of Tripoli" is, much like TE Lawrence's Arabian campaign, the way to fight effectively with most tribally based Arab/Berber/Moorish etc forces.

I assure you from first hand experience in Iraq that training an Arab army to fight in an Anglo-American-European fashion is no easy task. Tribal (irregular) lines work much better. Even the Turks in Egypt under Mehmet Ali relied on Albanians as their crack regular troops. Mamelukes make great raiders and can slice up a broken line but, as the Battle of the Pyramids showed, they are no good at cracking a line.

I could go on (e.g. Soviets in Egypt, Syria, Libya; Americans after Operation Torch in WWII) but my point is that I believe that it should be very difficult to use any North African Man Power outside of the Free State's own forces and that the Free State should have no higher morale than allowed under the current rules.

The higher morale for the Turk's recreating a viable North Africa is an exception as they would be more able to integrate the Islamic forces into their militaries and would be more adept at using them in traditional tribal roles.

Just some thoughts.




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to Paper Tiger)
Post #: 41
RE: Scenarios - 6/20/2007 6:47:58 PM   
La Provence


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Is there a scenario editor ?

If yes, it will be very easy to create all historical situations ........ and also alternative (or fantasy) scenarios.

(in reply to Mardonius)
Post #: 42
RE: Scenarios - 6/21/2007 4:17:44 PM   
Paper Tiger

 

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Just wonder from Mardonius's post if a rule should be in place to give the Islamic minors guerilla ability for Turkey while under the non free state rule of a Christian country.

(in reply to La Provence)
Post #: 43
RE: Scenarios - 6/21/2007 4:20:01 PM   
Paper Tiger

 

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Perhaps even a Mahdi revolt corps?

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Post #: 44
RE: Scenarios - 6/21/2007 9:15:26 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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Seems like a lot of effort . . . next we'll be talking about "Mahdi Revolt Corps" die roll modifiers.

Edited for gross spelling violations.

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Post #: 45
RE: Scenarios - 6/23/2007 1:01:19 AM   
Paper Tiger

 

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Well rules already exist for the Tyrollean revolt corps and for Austrian insurrection corps and for Spannish Guerillas. How much more work is it to combine a revolt corps with guerillas for Islamic minors. If combined total of Islamic guerillas >20? then Turkey may place the Mahdi revolt corps. Corps appears in the location with the highest existing number of guerilla factors works like a Feudal corps.
It is building on existing rules already coded, could be added to a patch either official or unofficial.

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 46
RE: Scenarios - 6/23/2007 5:45:40 PM   
Marshall Ellis


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La Provence:

No, there is not an editor in this version. I do have my own editor BUT it is not ready for prime time and is mainly for a developer (Ugly, confusing, can be dangerous :-)). I think we can look at a safer version in later releases possibly???




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Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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Post #: 47
RE: Scenarios - 6/25/2007 7:22:12 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

La Provence:

No, there is not an editor in this version. I do have my own editor BUT it is not ready for prime time and is mainly for a developer (Ugly, confusing, can be dangerous :-)). I think we can look at a safer version in later releases possibly???

Sure, we all want it !
Especially after you said that the game engine could be used for more games of this kind of timeframe !!!

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 48
RE: Scenarios - 11/26/2007 12:17:55 AM   
Froonp


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About the scenarios, what is included in the version that is about to be released ?
Is this the 1805 grand campaign alone ?
If yes, is it planned to release other scenarios, especially the 1792 one, in future patches ?

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Post #: 49
RE: Scenarios - 11/26/2007 1:29:31 AM   
Marshall Ellis


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Froonp:

Yes, the Grand Campaign is the only scenario in 1.00
We are now working on a scenario editor which will be made available in an update. This should allow you guys to develop your own scenarios. Yes, we may still do some scenarios as well but you will have the capability to do these yourselves.





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Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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Post #: 50
RE: Scenarios - 11/26/2007 2:13:24 AM   
Adraeth


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I would like (considering EiH) a Seven Years War scenario or another in XVIII century

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