Kaga in the DEI

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Kaga in the DEI

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Kaga in the DEI

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Kaga in the DEI - 5/25/2007 8:04:28 PM

spence

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline

In Scenario 2 (Rising Sun) HIJMS KAGA enters the game around the 1st of February at Palau.

IRL she arrived on the 8th and promptly struck a coral head in that harbor which caused substantial damage such that, for her forthcoming operations in the DEI, she was limited to a top speed of 18 kts. IRL, immediately after the conclusion of the DEI Campaign, she headed to Japan for drydocking and permanent repairs.

Ordinarily "accidents don't happen" but in this case, since it involves Kaga's entire time in the scenario and seriously effects one of the ship's primary operational parameters, it seems to me that the damage suffered upon her arrival on the map, is important to include.

If a ship's maximum speed is purely a linear relationship to SYS damage (with fractions generally rounded up) then Kaga should start Scenario 2 with 35 SYS

Also in the Scen 2 time frame IRL Shokaku and Zuikaku were in the shipyard in Japan for the entire period of KB's participation in the DEI Campaign. It's interesting that the Japanese chose to employ their CARDIVS intact even though they could have substituted a fully operational 'Kaku's for Kaga to provide a similar aerial strike ability.

So the proper Scen 2 Kido Butai reinforcements for the IJN should be Akagi, Hiryu, Soryu and Kaga with a max speed of 18 and about 35 sys damage.

For those unfamiliar with the scenario you've got KB for about the last 40 days (ends March 16th 42). You're not overly blessed with BBs (the 4 Kongos and Yamato). You've got most of your CAs and a plentitude of smaller vessels and transports and plenty of LBA. The Allies have a jumble of dribs and drabs of this and that for air (no torpedo bombers and just one sqdrn of A-24s) with one possibly two RN CV's (which do come with torpedo bombers) and Hermes late in the game; a couple of R class BBs and maybe the PoW and Repulse still hanging about.

For those with more experience with the IJN than I, any thoughts on employing the KB in this scenario?

Post #: 1

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/25/2007 10:47:03 PM

saj42

Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline

The problem with giving 35 Sys dam to any CV is that even one bomb hit could put total damage over the magic 50% and stop air ops. Rather than penalize the Japanese player twice, instead of adding Sys damage just edit max speed. Also sys damage can be repaired in any port negating the need to go back to HI.

Or you might go for a combination of both.

_____________________________

Banner by rogueusmc

(in reply to spence)

Post #: 2

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/25/2007 11:00:06 PM

Lord Martin

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Sorry for the Noob question.
But what is DEI?
I think it is the indonesian area. Am I right?

(in reply to saj42)

Post #: 3

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/25/2007 11:01:00 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Yup. DEI = Dutch East Indies...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Lord Martin)

Post #: 4

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/26/2007 1:29:59 AM

spence

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline

quote:

The problem with giving 35 Sys dam to any CV is that even one bomb hit could put total damage over the magic 50% and stop air ops. Rather than penalize the Japanese player twice, instead of adding Sys damage just edit max speed. Also sys damage can be repaired in any port negating the need to go back to HI.

Since Palau was unable to effect even temporary repairs such that Kaga was limited to 18 kts then it would seem that major structural damage was done which in fact would be aggravated by any battle damage, perhaps fatally. IMHO IRL the Japanese were playing with fire here. It would seem that it could have turned out very badly for them.

If the IJN Player doesn't want to risk further damage to the Kaga in the scenario I suppose he could just leave it in relative safety at Palau.

I still find it amazing that IRL the Japanese so rigidly adhered to the yard schedule or their CARDIV structure or whatever that they didn't substitute one of the 'Kakus for the Kaga. They (the 'Kakus) missed the campaign but at the time of Kaga's mishap both were fairly nearby in Truk IIRC.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 5

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/26/2007 1:55:41 AM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline

IJ did not improvise ops or strategy. They made plans and they followed them. If a unit became unavailable, bummer. They carried on.

One of the reasons they lost.

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to spence)

Post #: 6

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/26/2007 2:03:05 AM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Yup. On the spot improvisation was not a big part of Jap military thinking...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 7

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/28/2007 6:35:41 AM

Admiral DadMan

Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline

Exactly.

At Midway, the only reason Zuikaku did not participate was due to airgroup losses. Japan could have made a composite a/g by adding Shokaku's remnants, but an inflexible doctrine prevented this.

The Americans DID do that with Yorktown taking on Saratoga squadrons.

< Message edited by Admiral DadMan -- 5/28/2007 7:34:51 AM >

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 8

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/28/2007 2:52:56 PM

spence

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline

quote:

The Americans DID do that with Yorktown taking on Saratoga squadrons.

There was an "administrative" (not really sure if that's the right word) difference as well. In 1942 if wasn't really apparent because of a lack of squadrons so the same ones tended to stay on the same ship with a notable exception being Yorktown's taking on board "Saratoga's" squadrons.

US carrier squadrons were embarked on a particular ship like a Marine battalion on a transport rather than being part of the ship's company. Japanese squadrons were part of the ship's crew.

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)

Post #: 9

RE: Kaga in the DEI - 5/28/2007 3:15:52 PM

Admiral DadMan

Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

The Americans DID do that with Yorktown taking on Saratoga squadrons.

There was an "administrative" (not really sure if that's the right word) difference as well. In 1942 if wasn't really apparent because of a lack of squadrons so the same ones tended to stay on the same ship with a notable exception being Yorktown's taking on board "Saratoga's" squadrons.

US carrier squadrons were embarked on a particular ship like a Marine battalion on a transport rather than being part of the ship's company. Japanese squadrons were part of the ship's crew.

Yes, Japanese Airgroups were organic to the ship, as opposed to American doctrine. But the Americans usually shifted whole airgroups at one time, but for the Midway battle, VB-3 was composited as was VF-3 to serve aboard Yorktown (this is a guess, reference not handy). VT-3 transferred aboard as a unit, and VS-5 remained aboard.

< Message edited by Admiral DadMan -- 5/28/2007 3:29:56 PM >

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to spence)

Post #: 10