RE: Axis and Oil

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Commander - Europe at War Gold >> RE: Axis and Oil

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RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 5:52:54 PM

targul

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Game manpower/oil make a great game balancer. Manpower means you cant build unlimited infantry. Oil cant build unlimited Armour. A good balance is required. You need to watch the different factors as you proceed.

After playing the Axis AI I found this out when I first ran out of oil then manpower. After that I started building a balanced army and watching my oil use carefully. Makes for an awesome balanced game.

(in reply to Syagrius)

Post #: 31

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 6:30:58 PM

IrishGuards

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I have read all the comments, and I have even spoken occasionally.
I am still gonna wait and see how different strategies .. cause and effect ... and how they pertain to playability ...
I know these facets of the game are here to balance the game and keep guys like me from becoming in other words ...
A TANK ...

This is 1 area in the game that is huge .... and I will say again ..
Where are my Synth plants and the Austrian Oil fields ... even small amounts flowing from the start of the game have huge ramifications by .. 41 .. 42 .. and so forth ...
As I opt for an economic outlook to keep the Oil flowing I can't help wonder ..
I move a BB .. 1 hex .. 3 oil .. I move it 15 hexes .. 3 Oil .. or whatever ....
I would rather be able to supply areas of the map .. eg: N AFR .. or Norway .. with Oil so that they at least keep the pointy units I have on board in supply 5 ... Cause the way I see it right now ... My Air in N Afr is supply 3 and still using same amount of Oil to conduct Air Ops ... Nay seems right to I

I look at the red sea route and so forth .. I have no idea how many turns it takes a unit to move around the horn of africa .. BUT .. !!! I certainly hope that the Allies are being charged if they redeploy the fleet this way .. this would be mega Oil use ..
IDG

(in reply to targul)

Post #: 32

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 6:47:05 PM

freeboy

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Armor production.. cost is one thing.. if we want to talk about "ww2 reality look at the 41 42 tank figures.. germany simplly produced way too few.. even had they gone to a war time economy in 40, as oposed to what 43?, the steal for tanks and the need for industry for other efforts would reduce the numbers from an all armored corps army..
Oil is used as a hindrence to germany getting a quickie in this game...
one solution is folks are upset is to require lots of oil to produce armor and fleets. If the Germans had the oil in the cacauses and Mid East they still would have had enormous problems moving it.. easier to set up the factories closer to the oil! etc etc..

I do agree that oil on is the challenge for the germans... but it is a good challange imo

(in reply to Syagrius)

Post #: 33

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 6:47:34 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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Well, it don't look like the AI has to worry about Oil

but for on map fields, Hamburg should be a major one, then Hannover would follow, and for man made, you would have Leuna works (employed some 36000 workers) and then there are the Blechhammers, nord and sud, each double the size of Leuna

also the Rhur had many smaller man made fuel sites (that when combined would be a major site)

(of course, I am thinking more along the lines of giving the Allies bombers something to target)

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Post #: 34

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 6:54:57 PM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Armor production.. cost is one thing.. if we want to talk about "ww2 reality look at the 41 42 tank figures.. germany simplly produced way too few.. even had they gone to a war time economy in 40, as oposed to what 43?, the steal for tanks and the need for industry for other efforts would reduce the numbers from an all armored corps army..
Oil is used as a hindrence to germany getting a quickie in this game...
one solution is folks are upset is to require lots of oil to produce armor and fleets. If the Germans had the oil in the cacauses and Mid East they still would have had enormous problems moving it.. easier to set up the factories closer to the oil! etc etc..

I do agree that oil on is the challenge for the germans... but it is a good challange imo

the trouble is mind set, if the Axis could and did take those fields, I am sure they then would of worked out how to use it

also, I am not saying the Player should build a all Tank Army, or even a heavy Tank Army

I am saying, if, I take the middle east oil fields and the Russian oil fields, I should have oil

even with what the Axis did build, they did not have Oil issues (other then standard supply, out running of such) until the Oil Sites became targets or were being captured

(as a side note, even with all the Allied Oil, the Allied Armies in France ran into lack of Oil Issues, they had it, but couldn't it to the front fast enough, lack of major port to offload at)

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Post #: 35

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 7:02:36 PM

Dave Ferguson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

........but for on map fields, Hamburg should be a major one, then Hannover would follow......

??? oil fields there? news to me!

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

Post #: 36

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 7:30:58 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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not sure how well this will post

working on the game EDtBTR Oil is a major target :)

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Post #: 37

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 7:55:11 PM

Montbrun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Ferguson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

........but for on map fields, Hamburg should be a major one, then Hannover would follow......

??? oil fields there? news to me!

Oil refineries

IMHO, Axis Oil and Manpower run out way too quickly. In one game, I was scraping the bottom for both in 9/41....

(in reply to Dave Ferguson)

Post #: 38

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 7:59:55 PM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Ferguson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

........but for on map fields, Hamburg should be a major one, then Hannover would follow......

??? oil fields there? news to me!

Oil refineries

IMHO, Axis Oil and Manpower run out way too quickly. In one game, I was scraping the bottom for both in 9/41....

true, but at this scale, I believe we are lumping all types of areas into one type, Oil with out a refinery is worthless

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Post #: 39

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/26/2007 11:39:34 PM

targul

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Oil and populations are only two factors being argued here but part of the reason for the complaints is units are too cheap. You could double the cost of most units and they would still be cheap.

I like them being cheap but if you make oil and manpower plentiful you will need to make those units much more expensive or you will unbalance the game in favor of the Axis way too much.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

Post #: 40

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/27/2007 6:34:37 AM

Canuck_jp

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I've just taken Moscow and one of the oilfields in the Caucasus. I'm hovering at about 100 in oil, each new turn. It hasn't become a desperate situation yet.

(in reply to targul)

Post #: 41

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/27/2007 5:04:40 PM

IrishGuards

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As Axis ..
I have found the only way to negate the Oil and manpower situation is ... to a degree of course ...
Tech labs .. especially Inf .. Arm .. Generals ..
Commanders ...
Upgrades .. Ah Yes .. watchin those Rumanian Me 262's ..

This compensates a great deal .. It can still be countered by the loathsome Allied player ..
IDG

(in reply to Syagrius)

Post #: 42

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/27/2007 5:10:19 PM

Syagrius

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The game is well balanced as it is. Just need AI tweakings.

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Post #: 43

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/27/2007 5:38:06 PM

Artmiser

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Hard Sarge I took Moscow with three Armor and six motorized units in my Army, Final push I made several more armor to keep them from pushing in from the south, while I took the Final Russian capital. At that time I had 500 oil. This was after I ran out of oil the first time I played just short of moscow, 2nd game used the armor for punching holes, motorized for enveloping and Infantry Corps for everything else. If I have any complaint its the fact that I had to slowly move about 30 corps to where I could access the rail. I am also pondering the English channel man the Brits and US have allot of ships by 43.

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Post #: 44

RE: Axis and Oil - 6/30/2007 6:04:02 AM

Von Manteuffel

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When playing the AI, it's far more fun to play with oil on. Otherwise, the axis can just run wild.

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Post #: 45

RE: Axis and Oil - 7/2/2007 1:09:16 AM

SMK-at-work

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A summary of German oil is at http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1981/jul-aug/becker.htm - in May of 1941 military requirements alone were 7.25 million barrels/month. total domestic production was 5.35 million barrels. They started with 15 million barrels stockpiled, and took another 5 million from France, etc when they conquered them.

Do the math.......

(in reply to Von Manteuffel)

Post #: 46

RE: Axis and Oil - 7/2/2007 4:45:49 AM

IrishGuards

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I seem to remember something about a little trade pact between Germany and Russia ..
Germany sent whatever and Russia sent Oil and such ...
I could be wrong .. but I am quite sure Comrade Stalin was shipping to the Germans in 1940 and 1941 .. All I am trying to say is that every little bit helps ..
IDG

(in reply to SMK-at-work)

Post #: 47

RE: Axis and Oil - 7/2/2007 6:34:33 AM

SMK-at-work

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Absolutely - if yo actually read the link I provided above the soviets supplied 4 million barrels to Germany in 1940, and 1.9 million in the first half of 1941.

Germany captured Maikop in August 1942, but as above they didn't receive a single drop of oil from the Caucasus before htey had to evacuate it.

they received 4.6 million barrels from other sources captured in the USSR....but they would have received more than that had htey remained at peace!

(in reply to IrishGuards)

Post #: 48