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Units database needed - 7/18/2007 10:13:43 AM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		Hello all,

First, I'd like to say once more how enjoyable I'm finding this whole release after so many years. I've bought and played all three games when they were originally released, but 2nd time around is still great! Well done folks, and I hope you continue to evolve the series. Great design never goes out of fashion.

Back in those days, when I had a bit more time, I had created a sort of database browser utility for units that would get all unit data including range, stick a unit photo in and present a nice little screen that you can Alt-TAB to and check out even if you're playing with FoW. Old timers might remember this.

I personally found this utility useful, especially since I like to play with FoW/ExFoW and F2 is not available in these cases. Granted, Help menu has all the data but it takes a long time to get to them, and a photo is not available, so if you're playing with ExFow you're out of luck until you start recognising units by experience.

Anyways, I unfortunately don't seem to have a copy of that one, although I'll look again. Question for you is:

1. Is there a chance of getting a Unit browser in a patch, dear development team?

2. Failing that, is there any kind programming soul with a bit of time to develop such a utility?

3. Failing that too, is there any Unit DB even in spreadsheet format that someone can point me to?

Many thx chaps.

/coralsaw

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A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.
Post #: 1
RE: Units database needed - 7/18/2007 11:40:46 AM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		Update:

I've managed to get a copy of the old utility and fix it to work with the new version, see below a screenshot that might bring back memories. However, in order to make it work for all 3 games and make sure that unit data are correct, I need an up to date unit database for all 3 games.

Jason, is there a way to get such a database without having to create it manually from Help files, (which BTW also don't contain terrain MP cost data)? I tried looking at the files but couldn't find any data in cleartext form, just the descriptions. I can get you the structure of the DB if it helps.

Of course, the best solution would be to just get an official unit browser utility from you guys, but every little helps.

/coralsaw







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by coralsaw -- 7/18/2007 11:51:18 AM >

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A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.

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Post #: 2
RE: Units database needed - 7/18/2007 11:56:46 AM   
Arkady


Posts: 1262
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: 27th Penal Battalion
Status: offline 		FYI help files within this new release are from original Talonsoft's version, they don't reflect new units/nations in Matrix release

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Post #: 3
RE: Units database needed - 7/18/2007 7:20:13 PM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		Yep, I found out about that when I had a Russian M3A1 Scout car appear..

/coralsaw


_____________________________

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.

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Post #: 4
RE: Units database needed - 7/18/2007 7:39:18 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		That's a brilliant screenshot! A rather useful tool indeed.


quote:

1. Is there a chance of getting a Unit browser in a patch, dear development team?


Potentially.. if we do it, it would be released later.. if someone else does it, we can incorporate it sooner.


quote:

2. Failing that, is there any kind programming soul with a bit of time to develop such a utility?


Hopefully there is, and they volunteer!

quote:

3. Failing that too, is there any Unit DB even in spreadsheet format that someone can point me to?


Not a 100% complete one, no.

quote:

Jason, is there a way to get such a database without having to create it manually from Help files, (which BTW also don't contain terrain MP cost data)? I tried looking at the files but couldn't find any data in cleartext form, just the descriptions. I can get you the structure of the DB if it helps.


Every little bit helps, of course. One could start populating the database.

Do you have a link for this utility?

Jason Petho





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Post #: 5
RE: Units database needed - 7/18/2007 7:49:16 PM   
Gudadantza


Posts: 47
Joined: 6/20/2007
From: Basque Country
Status: offline 		Wow! A Unit browser like that is a must have in future patches!

(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 6
RE: Units database needed - 7/18/2007 8:11:47 PM   
Arizonus

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline 		We would need to manually go through the help files to get data for new units? That sounds like a job we should split between several of us - I'll volunteer -

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Post #: 7
RE: Units database needed - 7/18/2007 10:21:33 PM   
Karl Berg

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		I have modified the same .dbf old program used by Coralsaw and imported new dates from files
  Platoon##,  Weapon and Unittext. The program is redy for EF. I will incude also WF and RS. If someone wish to tray it plese send his E-mail aadress to mine (carlo.monti44@fastwebnet.it).
  Karl Berg  

(in reply to Arizonus)
Post #: 8
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 11:37:55 AM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		@Karl: Wow, cool stuff.

@Jason: I have the utility on my drive and can send it to you, but it uses old data, best to get it from Karl if he has updated it.

Me, I've given it a thought last night and can spend some time writing a new unit browser utility. The major benefit will be it will deliver a self-contained .net app that installs and uninstalls normally. And I'll brush up a bit on my skills myself (as if I didn't have work to do).

In any case, the major problem is the up-to-date unit database. I can see the following solutions:

1. We decide on the format and split the work among volunteers, that need to go through F2 screens etc and get all data.

2. Jason can run a programmatic query (if possible) in the source files and dump to us in any format all the unit data included in F2 screen and range popup (copyright will be observed) so we can build a nice browser around them. I can provide required fields if needed.

I strongly prefer 2. since it will result in less work and fewer mistakes. Jason, are you able to do that?

/coralsaw

< Message edited by coralsaw -- 7/19/2007 11:41:01 AM >

_____________________________

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.

(in reply to Karl Berg)
Post #: 9
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 1:47:06 PM   
Arkady


Posts: 1262
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: 27th Penal Battalion
Status: offline 		all data are present in known format, you don't need populate unit viewer manually, just combine data from platton##.obx (simple encryption only), weapon.dat and unittext.txt

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Post #: 10
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 2:27:08 PM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info Arkady. There are the following files:

- platoonXX.oob: lots data, includes assault etc values, doesn't seem to include terrain costs, needs work to decipher
- platoonXX.obx: encrypted (or compressed?), no idea how to decrypt it, do you know?
- weapon.pdt: weapons data, seems ok
- weapn.pdx: encrypted or compressed data, no idea
- unittext.txt: unit descriptions

Terrain costs don't seem to be anywhere though. Any ideas?

In any case, it would be great if Jason could help us interpret all those data files at least.

/coralsaw


_____________________________

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.

(in reply to Arkady)
Post #: 11
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 4:27:50 PM   
Arizonus

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline 		Coralsaw,

    Do you know about this decoder program?

http://www.theblitz.org/downloads/scenario_tools.php#cs

    Would that do what you need to do, for opening platoon and weapon files? Note that even here, units are not assigned individual movement costs, but rather, a single-digit "ground pressure" value; I don't know what this corresponds to....

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Post #: 12
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 4:49:48 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		The oob and obx files are the same, with the exception of the obx files being encrypted. There is no reason to need for the obx files if merely creating a database.

Same with the pdt and pdx files.

Jason Petho



< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 7/19/2007 4:50:29 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 5:04:47 PM   
Arizonus

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline 		Jason,

    Do you know how to interpret the GP value? What if, for instance, I wanted to create a "new" unit that was an immobilized tank being used as a stationary pillbox?   Thanks!

                                                                                      Ariz

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Post #: 14
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 5:10:31 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arizonus

Jason,

    Do you know how to interpret the GP value? What if, for instance, I wanted to create a "new" unit that was an immobilized tank being used as a stationary pillbox?   Thanks!

                                                                                      Ariz


Just give it 0 movement costs for on and off road.

The unit will be stationary.

Jason Petho


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Post #: 15
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 5:16:46 PM   
Arizonus

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline 		Okay - sorry for being dense, but how would this be done?

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Post #: 16
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 5:21:29 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		Did you happen to download the tool you posted?

Jason Petho

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Post #: 17
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 5:38:59 PM   
Arizonus

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, I have it - have not had occasion to use it yet --

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Post #: 18
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 5:55:23 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arizonus

Yes, I have it - have not had occasion to use it yet --


In the zip file, you'll note a "How to Update Units" document.

That document breaks down what each of the numbers mean. You'll notice two fields: road speed and cross country - these are the numbers you change to 0.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 19
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 6:01:54 PM   
Arizonus

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline 		Okay then! Thank you very much!

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Post #: 20
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 6:13:27 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arizonus

Okay then! Thank you very much!


No problem! Good luck!!

Jason Petho

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Post #: 21
RE: Units database needed - 7/19/2007 6:56:53 PM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		@Arizonus: Didn't know about this tool, the doc is an eyeopener! Most probably we're ok.

/coralsaw


< Message edited by coralsaw -- 7/19/2007 7:07:53 PM >

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A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.

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Post #: 22
RE: Units database needed - 7/20/2007 2:32:04 AM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		What all is involved to make this utility, I would like to make such a tool available for my Korean War mod, do you remember what all you had to do?

Mike


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Post #: 23
RE: Units database needed - 7/20/2007 9:37:33 AM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		Warhorse,

I'll let you know once I redo the utility, that'll be easier. Take care.

/coraslaw


_____________________________

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.

(in reply to Warhorse)
Post #: 24
RE: Units database needed - 7/20/2007 2:20:26 PM   
Arkady


Posts: 1262
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: 27th Penal Battalion
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

The oob and obx files are the same, with the exception of the obx files being encrypted. There is no reason to need for the obx files if merely creating a database.

Same with the pdt and pdx files.

Jason Petho



Yes, for database are oob and pdt enough. But game use obx/pdx files thus for viewer should be used encrypted files...it can show new units from mods or future releases without additional work

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Post #: 25
RE: Units database needed - 7/21/2007 1:38:44 AM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Sounds good coralsaw, thank you very much!!

Mike

< Message edited by Warhorse -- 7/21/2007 1:39:18 AM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Units database needed - 7/24/2007 9:08:25 PM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		Hello,

Short progress report.

I've already done the code that imports the units data from the files into the database, which was the first milestone. I'm currently trying to import the hardattack/softattack values from the weapon.pdt files and I need some help.

Jason (or anyone), the East Front weapon.pdt file contains many cases of more than one entries for the same unit, e.g. it has 2 entries for the unit P00771 per below.

P00771 0
4 2

I thought that there should be only one entry for each firing unit, at least per Campaign (e.g. East Front). Isn't this correct? Any help is greatly appreciated. It would be a pity to create a dirty dataset, now that I am close to getting this browser done.

EDIT: Added a second question. I've noticed that the platoonXX.oob files contain several cases of more than one entries for the same unit (e.g. P00XXX). Is this right or do the files need fixing?

Thanks

/coralsaw


< Message edited by coralsaw -- 7/24/2007 9:14:48 PM >

_____________________________

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.

(in reply to Warhorse)
Post #: 27
RE: Units database needed - 7/24/2007 9:14:18 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coralsaw

Hello,

Short progress report.

I've already done the code that imports the units data from the files into the database, which was the first milestone. I'm currently trying to import the hardattack/softattack values from the weapon.pdt files and I need some help.

Jason (or anyone), the East Front weapon.pdt file contains many cases of more than one entries for the same unit, e.g. it has 2 entries for the unit P00771 per below.

P00771 0
4 2

I thought that there should be only one entry for each firing unit, at least per Campaign (e.g. East Front). Isn't this correct? Any help is greatly appreciated. It would be a pity to create a dirty dataset, now that I am close to getting this browser done.

Thanks

/coralsaw




You are correct, there should only be one entry per unique P#####... no exceptions

I will correct this and release it with the 1.03 patch.

Jason Petho



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Post #: 28
RE: Units database needed - 7/24/2007 9:16:52 PM   
coralsaw


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/29/2000
From: Zürich, CH
Status: offline 		Thanks for your answer Jason. Is there a chance for getting the non-dirty datasets before the next patch so that I can deliver the browser with that patch as well?

/coralsaw


_____________________________

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. - Napoleon Bonaparte, 15 July 1815, to the captain of HMS Bellerophon.

(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 29
RE: Units database needed - 7/24/2007 9:22:43 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coralsaw

Thanks for your answer Jason. Is there a chance for getting the non-dirty datasets before the next patch so that I can deliver the browser with that patch as well?

/coralsaw



Yes, that can be arranged. Send me a PM with your email address and I will see about sending you the information this evening.

Jason Petho


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Post #: 30
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