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on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 12:40:44 AM   
donnie_1974_texas

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline 		What if in shipping a land combat unit, a fragment on a ship gets destroyed. Will the parent unit be able to rebuild to full strength?
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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 12:42:28 AM   
Halsey

 

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 12:42:49 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: donnie_1974_texas

What if in shipping a land combat unit, a fragment on a ship gets destroyed. Will the parent unit be able to rebuild to full strength?


it should if you are using the latest patch... in previous versions, if the PARENT FRAGMENT was destroyed, you could lose the entire unit.

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 12:45:13 AM   
Halsey

 

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Status: offline 		Yep.
As long as the unit lost isn't the piece that has no 1, 2 or 3 etc.
Denoting that it's a fragment.

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 12:57:28 AM   
jwilkerson


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From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Right - technically the "parent fragment" is not a fragment. It is the "parent". Note that "fragments" are completely different beasts from "divided pieces" or whatever you want to call the entities created when you divide a unit into 2 or 3 pieces. When a unit divides the "parent" goes into an off map holding box and returns when you recombine the divided pieces. Whereas when fragments are created there is always (supposed to be) a parent somewhere on the map. And as long as this parent exists then you can rebuild.



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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 1:04:39 AM   
donnie_1974_texas

 

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Status: offline 		Another question then.

What if the fragment still lives or takes a little damage. Lets say that a piece of Unit X is air transported to a remote location, engaged, and a part of it destroyed. For example:

Unit X is in Palembang and has a strength of 100.

10 squads of Unit X are air transported to Batavia.

5 squads og Fragment X/1 are destroyed in Batavia.

What gets to rebuild? Does the game know to allow the Unit X now at 90 squads in Palembang to rebuild to 95?

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 1:13:53 AM   
jwilkerson


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Status: offline 		I actually don't know if fragments take replacements or not. I'm sure they repair disabled squads but I don't know whether they take replacements. If I had to guess I would guess no - because there is no mechanism to track the maximum TOE for the fragment - but this would require checking the code for me to answer for sure.



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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 1:15:45 AM   
donnie_1974_texas

 

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Status: offline 		Well, I would think the fragment would not, but what about the parent in the case that it still has fragments on the map?

Basically, is it possible that units could be become oversized this way, several fragments being split off, and then the parent being allowed replacements and refilling?

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 1:20:12 AM   
jwilkerson


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Status: offline 		Yeah we had some LCU oversize problems for a while - but I think Mike Wood fixed that before I ever came on board. We had a similar problem for air groups and and I know MichaelM added code to cycle through all the airgroup fragments and add up all the planes, so you shouldn't be able to oversize for airgroups - but since the LCU oversize problem got fixed before I came on board I'm not sure. I can say that I haven't seen any LCU oversize issues since MW did his fix, way back around 1.4 or so.


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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 1:26:10 AM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		I've been evac parts of the 2 large BF in Luzon to Australia in my PBEM game (CHS) by subs. Now that I have more support units in the large fragment in Australia, it has switched over to being the parent unit. I read this in another thread and thought this was how the game mechanics determines which is the parent unit. Also, the parent unit can only rebuild up to the max minus the numbers the fragments have left. A good example is your LBA having a frag or two in various bases and you can only take replacements to fill out what is missing in total.

Thus, I want my fragments in Manila to die a noble death, but the "Siege of Manila" may last another month or two.


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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 2:48:30 AM   
Halsey

 

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Status: offline 		Fragments will not get replacements.
Only the true parent unit will.

Aircraft fragments operate the same way.

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 2:56:58 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Fragments will not get replacements.
Only the true parent unit will.

Aircraft fragments operate the same way.


Not been my experience - i have evac'ed land unit fragments from sticky situations, and put them with an HQ and loads of supplies - the unit starts getting replacements and growing quite nicely.

EDIT: And yes, the parent unit is still alive and well...

PS - i haven't seen air unit get replacements.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 7/31/2007 2:58:48 AM >

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 3:24:34 AM   
donnie_1974_texas

 

Posts: 77
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Status: offline 		Just ran a 30 day test in the home islands. Had a fast transport squadron of 4 DD's pick up some of Yokusaka base force and take it to Osaka. Set it and the parent on accept replacements and no other units doing so. Ran for 30 days. No change. The fragment and the parent total up to the TOE of the parent.

So, I think the same thing is now happening for LCUs that happens for air units and their fragments.

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 4:19:47 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: donnie_1974_texas

Just ran a 30 day test in the home islands. Had a fast transport squadron of 4 DD's pick up some of Yokusaka base force and take it to Osaka. Set it and the parent on accept replacements and no other units doing so. Ran for 30 days. No change. The fragment and the parent total up to the TOE of the parent.

So, I think the same thing is now happening for LCUs that happens for air units and their fragments.



Had the parent unit already sustained significant losses? If not, it may need to have any replacements so did not get any... i don't think the unit will go beyond the total TOE of the combined fragments now that the game has been patched.


< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 7/31/2007 4:20:32 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 5:06:35 AM   
donnie_1974_texas

 

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Status: offline 		Correct.  No losses had been sustained.  So the summary rulings are:
1)  Divided units, if one section is lost, will not rebuild.
2)  Fragments and their parents will accept replacements up to the TOE of the unit, but not beyond.
3)  Some not understood exceptions exist for parent units being lost as to whether or not a fragment will become the parent.

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Post #: 15
RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 1:47:10 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: donnie_1974_texas

Correct.  No losses had been sustained.  So the summary rulings are:
1)  Divided units, if one section is lost, will not rebuild.
2)  Fragments and their parents will accept replacements up to the TOE of the unit, but not beyond.
3)  Some not understood exceptions exist for parent units being lost as to whether or not a fragment will become the parent.



Those sound good as far as they go - and i think they are correct, except for part 3...

i think this has been stated, but, i'll re-state: if parent (land) unit is lost from ATTRITION (i.e. - it starves) - then i think there will be no fragment becoming a parent. In past versions of the game, if a fragment happened to be on a ship when the parent was destroyed, you might not get the fragment to become a parent (but this might have been fixed). Otherwise, the problem only seemed to happen under circumstances where something bizarre happens in the game (i.e. - glitches of various sorts.)

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Post #: 16
RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 1:51:17 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Status: offline 		If a unit is understrength, say a division that is at 50% strength for example, and you split it and send a fragment of that division to a location that has lots of supplies ect and set the fragment to replacements, it will (at least prior to 1.806) take on replacements as long as the total strength for the entire unit (ie ALL the fragments and the parent in this case a division) are under 100%.

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Post #: 17
RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 1:54:52 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

If a unit is understrength, say a division that is at 50% strength for example, and you split it and send a fragment of that division to a location that has lots of supplies ect and set the fragment to replacements, it will (at least prior to 1.806) take on replacements as long as the total strength for the entire unit (ie ALL the fragments and the parent in this case a division) are under 100%.



Seems to be happening under 1.806 as well.

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Post #: 18
RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 6:22:57 PM   
siRkid


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So, if the parent uit is destroyed, what happens to the fragment? Does it become the parent unit or does it stay a fragment?


< Message edited by Kid -- 7/31/2007 6:23:31 PM >

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RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 6:43:09 PM   
castor troy


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From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

So, if the parent uit is destroyed, what happens to the fragment? Does it become the parent unit or does it stay a fragment?




It "can" become the parent (and it should), it can stay a fragment and it even can get a ghost unit. The ghost unit isn´t accesable anymore - when you click on it you get into the info screen of another unit - but the ghost unit can still be reconned by enemy recon planes...

It´s not a die roll, it´s just a routine that sometimes works, sometimes it doesn´t work and sometimes it goes completely off (when you get a ghost)...

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Post #: 20
RE: on fragments and rebuilding - 7/31/2007 7:23:17 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
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Status: offline 		If you have a fragment and no parent currently it is a ghost unit and you can NOT rebuild it. It is on the bug list.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 21
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