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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/9/2007 10:15:12 PM   
PunkReaper


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Is t3 as mentioned earlier The Operational Art of War or something else?

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/9/2007 10:22:16 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

Is t3 as mentioned earlier The Operational Art of War or something else?


I wondered the same when I saw it.

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Post #: 32
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/9/2007 10:37:17 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Yes

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/9/2007 10:50:13 PM   
B/snafu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

.......iin terms of gamplay, ease of use and replayability.......


t3-ToawIII---more bang for the buck in my .02 cents---As far as gameplay and replayability---Anything from bat/regt 1km or 2.5 km scale to corps level & monsters like Fire in the East and strategic Europe Aflame--(minus resource, production-but looks like events help make up for it) also a 19th centry database for those period scenarios.

Fairly new to it myself--so it does have a learning curve but worth it.

I don't doubt the assertions of witp--have it downloaded & installed---actually ran it a few times to take a look--just don't have the time right now to get in to this monster.

< Message edited by B/snafu -- 8/9/2007 10:55:13 PM >


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Post #: 34
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/9/2007 11:39:11 PM   
PunkReaper


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Thank you everyone for your advice. The decision has been made and the money paid over. I liked the look of Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar for a relatively short game. ( bit of a closet tabletop gamer who can't be bothered painting the figures). Also liked TOAW especially the number of senarios on the internet even going back to napoleonic times and beyond. both games are now being downloaded. I may get WitP when I grow up and can play with the big boys.
Thanks again

(in reply to B/snafu)
Post #: 35
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/10/2007 12:19:16 AM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

Thank you everyone for your advice. The decision has been made and the money paid over. I liked the look of Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar for a relatively short game. ( bit of a closet tabletop gamer who can't be bothered painting the figures). Also liked TOAW especially the number of senarios on the internet even going back to napoleonic times and beyond. both games are now being downloaded. I may get WitP when I grow up and can play with the big boys.
Thanks again


Hey, let me know how you like Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar. I have thought about getting that for a while.

TOAW3 is excellent. Tons of replay value and scenarios.

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Post #: 36
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 3:23:51 PM   
Ike99


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TOAW-3.

It's just a classic that will never age. It`s as near a perfect wargame as your going to get IMHO.

Replayability? It will never end. Complete and powerful scenario editor with the ability to play just about any ground conflict the last 150 years and those of tomorrow.

Weak on the naval side of things but it has enough to get the job done. We can´t have everything can we?


(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 37
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 3:39:11 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
What I'm real happy to see is no one mentioned COTA. haha


There's little point recommending something he already has.



Lol that never stopped people before. I've seen gamers ask for a new TURN BASED GAME and people would still say HTTR/COTA lol And what do we all know? That COTA is a ki........ well we all know what it is. ;)



Please enlighten those of us who are not mind readers........

What exactly are you saying about COTA?

COTA is far and away the best product sold by Matrix.

Nothing else is even in the same league with it's revolutionary game engine that is undeniably the most immersive I have ever played.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 38
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 3:53:44 PM   
jvgfanatic

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
What I'm real happy to see is no one mentioned COTA. haha


There's little point recommending something he already has.



Lol that never stopped people before. I've seen gamers ask for a new TURN BASED GAME and people would still say HTTR/COTA lol And what do we all know? That COTA is a ki........ well we all know what it is. ;)



Please enlighten those of us who are not mind readers........

What exactly are you saying about COTA?

COTA is far and away the best product sold by Matrix.

Nothing else is even in the same league with it's revolutionary game engine that is undeniably the most immersive I have ever played.


ravinhood calls any game that isn't turn-based "kiddie clickfests" in which he ignores anything about the game except the fact that it isn't old-school, slow, and turn-based.

I agree that COTA and HTTR are revolutionary. I enjoy the diversity in gaming styles that come out of matrix even if I don't like a particular game or game engine and if matrix can satisfy a broad range of gaming tastes that means more players. That can't be all bad now.

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Post #: 39
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 5:31:50 PM   
PunkReaper


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Thought the guy just LOVED Medieval Total War???

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 5:47:54 PM   
7th Somersets

 

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I have recently bought COTA and, even though I am still in the learning curve stage of 'enjoyment' - it is really a VERY good game. It is not a kiddie clickfest at all.

Guns of August is also excellent.

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Post #: 41
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 6:03:46 PM   
SteveD64

 

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What I have played:

Cross of Iron- not my thing and I should've known it before I bought it. 
Birth of America- fantastic, good looking, good AI.  Highly recommended.
Guns of August- fantastic, resource allocation drives the game, decent AI and tough decisions.  The new patch is imminent and will make it even better.  Highly recommended.

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Post #: 42
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 6:31:42 PM   
ravinhood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

Thank you everyone for your advice. The decision has been made and the money paid over. I liked the look of Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar for a relatively short game. ( bit of a closet tabletop gamer who can't be bothered painting the figures). Also liked TOAW especially the number of senarios on the internet even going back to napoleonic times and beyond. both games are now being downloaded. I may get WitP when I grow up and can play with the big boys.
Thanks again


Very good choices. I am happy to see you stayed away from that terrible awful game of COTA. (snicker). You really should get Spartan and Troy though if you like Ancient Times. I thouroughly enjoy Spartan and I KNOW it is Matrixgames best game (that they NOW publish with partnership with Slitherine). :) Spartan has one of the best AI's I've ever gone up against and I even improved it some more since it is very easy to mod the AI in Spartan compared to other games. ;) You're gonna love Tin Soldiers:Caesar also. ;) TOAW III is a bit more daunting in the complexity department, but, you do get a wide range of play value out of it compared to others. Good value game for the $$.

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 6:51:39 PM   
cdbeck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP
Hey, let me know how you like Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar. I have thought about getting that for a while.
TOAW3 is excellent. Tons of replay value and scenarios.


LarryP, I think there is a demo floating around for Tin Soldiers: Alexander. I liked the demo but didn't buy the game (no real reason other than had other games in mind). You might try it out, as I think it is similar enough to Julius Caesar to merit comparison.

SoM

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-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

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Post #: 44
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 7:43:47 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP
Hey, let me know how you like Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar. I have thought about getting that for a while.
TOAW3 is excellent. Tons of replay value and scenarios.


LarryP, I think there is a demo floating around for Tin Soldiers: Alexander. I liked the demo but didn't buy the game (no real reason other than had other games in mind). You might try it out, as I think it is similar enough to Julius Caesar to merit comparison.

SoM


Yeah, I tried it and I liked it a lot. However, from what I have read floating around (not me floating around but what I heard ), Caesar is a big improvement over Tin Soldiers.

< Message edited by LarryP -- 8/15/2007 7:47:05 PM >

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 7:46:35 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Very good choices. I am happy to see you stayed away from that terrible awful game of COTA. (snicker). You really should get Spartan and Troy though if you like Ancient Times. I thouroughly enjoy Spartan and I KNOW it is Matrixgames best game (that they NOW publish with partnership with Slitherine). :) Spartan has one of the best AI's I've ever gone up against and I even improved it some more since it is very easy to mod the AI in Spartan compared to other games. ;) You're gonna love Tin Soldiers:Caesar also. ;) TOAW III is a bit more daunting in the complexity department, but, you do get a wide range of play value out of it compared to others. Good value game for the $$.


I have COTA. I never play that anymore. Got mad at it. Is Spartan a lot like Gates Of Troy? If not then I may try Spartan. I have GOT and don't really care for it. It's kind of cheesy.

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 8:45:38 PM   
cdbeck


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They are nearly identical in gameplay, at least from the demo. The scenarios seem very different though. Reviews out there tended to like GoT more than Spartan, not exactly sure why. RH above, though, prefers Spartan.

I keep dl'ing the demos, but never buying the game. They just don't have the draw that I need.

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 8:52:33 PM   
ravinhood


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Yes Spartan is like Gates of Troy, but, I think better since you can back download the better version of it 1.013
See, they dumbed down the series with the 1.017 version patch and that is what was origionally in Troy, but, 1.013 was a lot more aggressive ai and people complained that on EASY it was too hard. lol Needless to say Normal was quite difficult for some. I play it on Hardest or Impossible and I enjoy it very much. I don't play the scenario victory conditions though I play to conquer the map. Most of the scenarios are rather easy, some are pretty good challenges if you play in the north as a lone barbarian nation. I did some modifications to the diplomacy and the way the ai built up its power and enjoy the games a lot. But, even without my modifications v1.013 is still very good and very challenging. I ranted, I pleaded, I cried to Iain not to muck with the ai in v1.017, but, to no avail he listened to the whinners that the ai was too hard instead of us hard core gamers as most developers don't listen either when it comes to ai's. Still though v1.013 is one of the best ai's you'll play against and the game of Spartan as a whole is very good. It's like the game of Civilization took a break in the ancient times and you get to playout greek warfare. The Romans and Persians will invade and that can be a lot of fun if you are a coastline nation near their entry locations.

Why did you get mad at COTA? Most people here just drool and crap their pants over it. lol

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 9:04:55 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Yes Spartan is like Gates of Troy,...

Why did you get mad at COTA? Most people here just drool and crap their pants over it. lol


I don't care for Gates Of Troy so I may pass on Spartan. I looked at the screenshots and they look almost identical to GoT. I have plenty of games, but I am always looking.

On COTA... well for one thing I prefer turn based games. I played HTTR a lot and found it to be a pretty good deal. I don't like the puny squished maps in COTA for one thing. I also don't like the era of battles, but I knew that before I bought the thing. The last time I played it, I felt that it was cheating. Had it been a live opponent, I would have drawn my six-shooter and blasted the darn varmint!

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 9:36:17 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

My favorite is Gary Grigby's World at War. With a wife and kid and 2 jobs it's great and easy for me to get into. As for as WiTP I'm gonna have to catch a player here in San Diego and have them physically show me how to play. Everyone loves it but the complexity leaves me in the dust.


I don't play WitP but if you want to get together sometime, we have a gaming group at camp Pendelton that meets once a month. Fun group.

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 9:36:22 PM   
ravinhood


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@LarryP

You'd probably more prefer "Punic Wars" by HPS then. It's pure turn based and has gobs of scenarios to playout. Spartan does have that hands off element to the battles, but, it does allow you to setup in a tactical fashion and I guess that is why I took to it so much. The Total War series has you frantically cliking around the battelfield and Spartan/Troy has you nail biting watching the outcome. I like the actual tactical setup of it though because you can set how far a unit goes before it turns and charges upon the enemy or where to setup bottlenecks, ambushes, things like that. There's a lot of detail in the battle setup if people get into it like I do. You really preplan everything and for that time period it really is more realistic in the way it uses command control. You basically write out the battle orders for the day and watch it unfold though you do get some handson during the battle in the form of rally horn, retreat and charge, not a lot for sure, but, I've had some close battles where using the rally horn and/or charge saved the day and turned what might have been a defeat into a victory. Those are some fun and exciting battles. I mainly like Spartan for the AI as I mentioned above though. I've had some games where I was down to one province and had to work, scrimp, save, sneak, ambush lol everything to work my way back into the game again. Normal mode is no sleeze by a long shot, but, I just prefer more challenge in the way of numbers and so that is why I play on hardest and impossible.

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 8/15/2007 9:37:26 PM >

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 9:41:30 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets

I have recently bought COTA and, even though I am still in the learning curve stage of 'enjoyment' - it is really a VERY good game. It is not a kiddie clickfest at all.

Guns of August is also excellent.



Ditto for me. COTA is a real breath of fresh air. I don't accept the clickfest monniker since it's pausible. It's a really cool step forward in computer wargames IMHO.

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 9:54:28 PM   
PunkReaper


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Re Ravenhood

I have just downloaded Spartan and Punic Wars demos to try out. I looked at Spartan a while ago and didn't think it had much deph but perhaps i was just skimming the surface. Anyhow I'll try it again, especially how it is now quite cheap over here in Blighty.

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 9:59:41 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

@LarryP

You'd probably more prefer "Punic Wars" by HPS then. It's pure turn based and has gobs of scenarios to playout. Spartan does have that hands off element to the battles, but, it does allow you to setup in a tactical fashion and I guess that is why I took to it so much. The Total War series has you frantically cliking around the battelfield and Spartan/Troy has you nail biting watching the outcome. I like the actual tactical setup of it though because you can set how far a unit goes before it turns and charges upon the enemy or where to setup bottlenecks, ambushes, things like that. There's a lot of detail in the battle setup if people get into it like I do. You really preplan everything and for that time period it really is more realistic in the way it uses command control. You basically write out the battle orders for the day and watch it unfold though you do get some handson during the battle in the form of rally horn, retreat and charge, not a lot for sure, but, I've had some close battles where using the rally horn and/or charge saved the day and turned what might have been a defeat into a victory. Those are some fun and exciting battles. I mainly like Spartan for the AI as I mentioned above though. I've had some games where I was down to one province and had to work, scrimp, save, sneak, ambush lol everything to work my way back into the game again. Normal mode is no sleeze by a long shot, but, I just prefer more challenge in the way of numbers and so that is why I play on hardest and impossible.


Ravinhood... I have been watching the HPS game selections and the one that I have had my eye on is the Korean War. I looked at Punic Wars and it looks OK too. I see Punic Wars also has an expansion pack with 17 more scenarios. I have never bought from HPS and too bad they don't have download like Matrix does WITH ability to buy boxed too.

Sounds like Spartan DOES have a great AI. The only game I have that would compare (and you don't like it) is the Total War series which I have all. The expansion for the latest version is coming out this month too. I get tired of the Pope always wanting crap done. If I could turn off the Pope option it would be a better game. Some of the things have been impossible to complete. Dang Pope! Now don't any Catholics take this beyond a gaming comment please.

< Message edited by LarryP -- 8/15/2007 10:01:27 PM >

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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 10:16:44 PM   
TheHellPatrol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Dang Pope! Now don't any Catholics take this beyond a gaming comment please.
You'll pay for your sins, sinner!


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RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 10:29:02 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets

I have recently bought COTA and, even though I am still in the learning curve stage of 'enjoyment' - it is really a VERY good game. It is not a kiddie clickfest at all.

Guns of August is also excellent.



Ditto for me. COTA is a real breath of fresh air. I don't accept the clickfest monniker since it's pausible. It's a really cool step forward in computer wargames IMHO.


Couldn't agree with you guys more.

As a gamer with 33+ years of heavy grognard boardgaming experience under my belt the Airborne Asault game engine took a little getting used to, but once I adapated I never looked back.

I still play and enjoy hex/turn based board and computer games, but nothing, and I mean nothing, creates that immersive feel of commanding actual military formations, as opposed to the feel of "pushing cardboard around", like this system does.

I also have little interest in most of the Greek campaign, although I found the Italian vs. Greek scenarios fun and challenging to play, the main attraction for me, besides the game engine itself was the Malta sceanrio. Avalon Hill's Assault on Malta, which was a "bonus" game included in their Air Assault on Crete game, was one of the most fun board games I ever played to death. Once I finally saw a computer game of that battle, I absolutely HAD to buy it.

BFTB is already shaping up to include some killer scenarios. Check out my AAR of my beta test of the Race for the Meuse scenario on the BFTB forum for a sneak peak.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 56
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 10:35:33 PM   
ravinhood


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I didn't say I didn't like the Total War series, I said RTW was crap and it is. Didn't you see my thread on M2TW I had up here recently? I don't mind a clickfest as much if there is no micromanagement in building things in real time and moving units all over gawds creation like 99.9% of rts games. See, I'm the type if/when I do play an rts game or some pauseable continous time games I will NOT use PAUSE ever (I feel it is cheating the ai to use pause in real time games of any type). If the game doesn't have a setting that can slow time down to a crawl without me having to press pause every 5 seconds then it's just another kiddy clickfest game and leave it at that, don't try to sugar coat what it already is, a real time clickfest (kids or no kids lol).

I play several real time games that don't have severe micro management and/or have a turn based system; strategic and then real time combat. Take Command has an excellent game engine that uses real time I can deal with. Excellent game imho. The speed of combat and death is at near the perfect settings. The Total War series except for the gawd awful RTW are pretty fair in the speed of combat and death speed. Kohan series has a very good strategic game in real time and an easy and simple enough real time combat that isn't tedious and kiddy clickfest frantic. Sacrifice also is a game with near perfect speed of combat and no micro management whatsoever really. Last, but, not least The Seven Kingdoms is another game that did rts right. Simple strategic micromanagement and a very good combat speed and death speed. It is when RTS/PCT games reach that point of moving faster than I can think that they become kiddy clickfests as I have stated for several. All RTS/PCT games should have speed controls that do not require you to use pause because the speed it just too damn fast. That is not real time when the speed of the game is faster than you can think. It's beyond real time and runs into the ranks of faster than the speed of light or sound. lol

My opinion is if a game needs a pause feature or pause is required to keep up then it should have been a turn based game in the first place. That will always be my stand on real time/pauseable continuous time games. When the movement is faster than I can think or want to think then it is a kiddy clickfest and nothing less. Paradox games as much as I really despise Paradox have time slowing features that make any of their games playable for me. That very slow setting is just perfect and I don't cheat the AI because it is still playing in this speed setting. I do not have to pause any Paradox games and I won't ever, because they are intended to be played in some time frame, not paused, though you can pause it, but, then you are just cheating the ai and yourself when you do. I prefer turn based or wego, but, I'm not adverse to ALL RTS kiddy clickfest games, just the ones I feel are totally kiddy clickfest and will always be and nothing less.

Once again I'm a big fan of the Total War series as a whole, just not RTW, figures too the one game I wanted to be so great and challenging like the others and it's total crap wars. Nothing can fix the ai issues or strategic ai or diplomatic ai of RTW, no mods can do anything with the interior of the game code that needs adjusting. I found one way and one way only to make RTW fun and that was by shutting down morale which makes the game lose all realism, but, definitely makes for a more challenging game if you play with large or huge army settings and making the population increases most important to survive. Doesn't change the stupidity of the battle ai, but, does make them last a lot longer on the battlefield before they run.

As far as games I recommend, you can bet they will be fun, challenging and have an ai above the normal average of what you get 95% of the time. I don't sugarcoat any game though. If it has issues I'll sure let everyone know and most people here know I will (though they always give me a hard time about it lol). The Tin Soldiers:Caesar is a good game from Matrixgames. I'm only saddened that Koios went the WWII route so quickly. I was hoping for more from the Tin Soldiers series in the ancient period of time. I didn't get Alexander, but, I intend to this "christmas season at Matrixgames" hehe I'm into Medieval and Ancients right now, both in gaming and historical value. I was glued to HBO's mini series of ROME. ;) Waiting on 300 to hit bargain bin pricing hehe.

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 57
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/15/2007 11:42:42 PM   
HansBolter


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By virtue of both the lack of time and desire I really don't want to get into a tit for tat debate about RTS games with you ravinhood, but I get the distinct impression that you really didn't give COTA a fair chance to catch your interest.

COTA does not require micromanagement in any way, shape, or form. It has the the time rate adjustment feature you say is essential to making an RTS playable for you.

It can even be played as a turn based game simply by using the "run until" feature and walking away from the computer and not viewing what is transpiring until it "stops" to show you the result of your last "turn".

One of the real challenges of the system is avoiding the urge to attempt to micromanage. With the use of orders delays, things don't happen immediately in response to your commands and this is a real incentive to resisting micromanagement. While it can be tough ot watch an advancing units strength wither away while it is undergoing an artillery barrage, the knowledge that any new orders I might give it in an effort to spare it will not be implemented until the action I am observing has already run it's course creates an air of "oh well, I gave that unit those orders and now they have to suffer the consequences and run the gauntlet".

Commanding at higher levels reduces micromanagement. It also takes a bit of adjustment in gaming style to say to yourself, instead of taking control of every last unit I am gonna give orders to battalion commanders and allow them to control the companies. It can be fun to see what the AI does with the units you give it control over and a learning experience in developing style of command.

I realize it probably just isn't "your cup of tea", and any efforts by me to extoll it's virtues for you will come to naught, but I fail to see any justification for denegrating it with descriptions like "kiddie clickfest".

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 58
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/16/2007 12:34:13 AM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Dang Pope! Now don't any Catholics take this beyond a gaming comment please.
You'll pay for your sins, sinner!



Better here than later! Or did you mean later? I'm so confused!!! I'm burning!!! Hellpp!!!

(in reply to TheHellPatrol)
Post #: 59
RE: Best Matrix Game - 8/16/2007 12:37:25 AM   
Deride


Posts: 488
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
So, have downloaded and played Tin Soldiers:JC yet? Hope that you enjoy it -- I know we really enjoyed developing it.

I worked on the AI, so if you like it -- please let me know. Otherwise, you can keep your comment private.

Deride

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 60
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