Slitherine

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OILR, Swift has had some good effects taking down oil, but as most of it is Romy land, and will be taken by the Red Horde, I tend to wait until it falls before going to work on it heavy, but think I may have to rethink my thinking

OILS ? more of a target point raid, then the main idea for a raid

FUEL, well, sort of like Power, some good big targets, but to take it out, a lot of small targets

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ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, they were following it pretty well, right up until the point when they stopped...

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ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, they were following it pretty well, right up until the point when they stopped...

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ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I doubt very much that any of the JG leaders believed any of the statements that the UK only had 50 planes left

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ORIGINAL: Banquet

Luftflotte 5 certainly found out the hard way. The German reasoning for the fact that there were still so many fighters in the South was that they must have transferred down from the North. In fact the northern airfields were all in good shape and itching for some action themselves.

In all honesty the best Germany was ever likely to do was force the RAF back to airfields north of London.

if they had won the AS over the south, the RAF would of been pushed back more into 12 Group area, then to just say north of London, 12 Group fields would hurt the Fighters if they were trying to reach the Dover area, the GB bombers of this time, would of been slaughtered if they had tried to make a anti-ship strike, worse then what the LW took during there attacks, plus the RAF fighters would of been tied down trying to protect the bombers and would then of been faceing the same troubles the 109 had been

This would have meant the beachheads during Sealion would still have been contested by the RAF and Germany needed complete air supremecy to have any chance.

really don't see it as much of any contest, if they had AS over the south, they would of had it over the beaches too, even more so, and as I said, the RAF would of been trying to protect there bombers, not out on the hunt, much different battle, if you hope to have any of your bombers return


They had already learned the Stuka's couldn't survive under fighter attack. They didn't just need to get the 9 or so divisions to England, they needed to supply them and get the armour in the 2nd wave over too. If in any of that time the Royal Navy had got access to the channel it would have all been over.

and again really ? why does every one think the GE were just plain dumb and stupid people ? by 1940, most of Europe didn't think so anymore ? (and as I am a ex Marine, I have some training in this sort of stuff, and as a lowly NCO I know how to plan and mount an attack with this kind of defence, I am sure the GE Staff Officers had some ideas) you don't need fully loaded boats and ships to make a landing, or to supply a force on the land, just loaded up enough with what you can offload in the time you think you are going to have or need, every modern day writer, thinks they were plain Morons, who would be loading ships that would take 5 days to unload and would be sending all of them to the same spot and would then have to wait in line for the ship ahead of them to unload, before they could begin there unloading

and as the RN had already admitted, the channel was not under RAF control, and "all" ships were order not to enter, of course, if a landing was under way, the RN would of responded, but as already has been seen, the RAF would of had trouble protecting the fleets, as they were father away now, they couldn't do in July, when they were on the coast, they wouldn't be able to do it in Aug or Sept when they were based in 12 Group, and also being weaken, but again, everybody says, when the RN DDs got there at night, the landing would of been in trouble, but who says they had to be there at night, only the modern writers who think the Staff Officers were morons and wouldn't know they only had a short time to be at sea and back

if the LW has AS over the south, the RN DD fleet would of been crippled if it was around during the day

too many plans on what was going to happen to the BB fleet if it looked like England was going to fall, for them to really of been planned on going into the slaughter fields

one hassle is, most people when they talk about what would, could of happened, if, always talk as if the RAF was still in control, but if the LW had AS over the south, then RAF was no longer in control and would be fighting a totally different battle

let the flames begin

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ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I doubt very much that any of the JG leaders believed any of the statements that the UK only had 50 planes left

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ORIGINAL: Dixie

What were the LW torpedo bombers like at that stage of the war? Surely Stukas and torpedo bombers would be a major factor in RN losses as regular bombing was rarely effective against a moving ship. The RN would have gone into action with or without RAF AS in an effort to stop the landings.

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ORIGINAL: Dixie

What were the LW torpedo bombers like at that stage of the war? Surely Stukas and torpedo bombers would be a major factor in RN losses as regular bombing was rarely effective against a moving ship. The RN would have gone into action with or without RAF AS in an effort to stop the landings.

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ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

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ORIGINAL: Dixie

What were the LW torpedo bombers like at that stage of the war? Surely Stukas and torpedo bombers would be a major factor in RN losses as regular bombing was rarely effective against a moving ship. The RN would have gone into action with or without RAF AS in an effort to stop the landings.

You also have to remember that the sort of RN forces most useful in defecting the invasion are destroyers and smaller. You would only need to get 2 or 3 DDs, or a half dozen MTB or something into the invasion barge fleet one night and the Germans would have had a very bad time. Do it 5 or 6 times in the first week, and the follow-up landings would look very vulnerable. If Churchill was prepared to sacrifice say 20 destroyers regardless, to attack the fleets (not being swayed by the 'we are lost - save the RN to send to Canada' naysayers), the invasion would have been very unlikely to succeed. A few days of bad weather would likely have the same effect. Of course, the loss of the DDs makes the sub war interesting later, but the loss of the barges on the Ge economy is also significant. The presige gained by the British in defeating an invasion might have off set the loss in ships. Certainly, Hitler loses his invincibility reputation well before late 1942 when he lost in in RL!