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RE: Sixth Attack Phase - 11/19/2007 6:08:52 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

If so, that's a good thing. I just don't know for sure.


I haven't tested it, but I don't see why this penalty (which applies to attacking from a range of water obstacles) would be removed in one particular case, and furthermore in my experience debarked units attacking from deep water hexes are less effective.

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(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 61
RE: Second Attack Phase - 11/19/2007 11:41:06 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
Sure, but it might not yet be set up and able to fire. The gunners and the guns might not be in the same place- and the shells and the transport may be somewhere else again. Amphibious invasions can get messy.


The turn one artillery units have unit supply values of 33% to model those factors.

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Post #: 62
RE: Second Attack Phase - 11/20/2007 11:42:21 AM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

The turn one artillery units have unit supply values of 33% to model those factors.


Right. So on passive defence they're offering around 20-30% of their maximum strength while at sea. That's not bad. However if they were able to bombard directly you'd still be looking at around half of maximum strength on the first round (which is 10% of the first 3.5 days, or about 8 hours). Moreover if they were directly bombarding every round, after the first few their strength is no longer declining.

You don't need to object. I'm explaining how this (the artillery becoming unavailable if they directly bombard once) is a feature, not a bug.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 11/20/2007 11:44:11 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 63
RE: Second Attack Phase - 11/20/2007 6:00:41 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
Right. So on passive defence they're offering around 20-30% of their maximum strength while at sea. That's not bad. However if they were able to bombard directly you'd still be looking at around half of maximum strength on the first round (which is 10% of the first 3.5 days, or about 8 hours). Moreover if they were directly bombarding every round, after the first few their strength is no longer declining.


Look back at the start of this AAR and note that no artillery units are directly supporting in round one. That's because they aren't in range to do so without moving first. Furthermore, there is only space for one unit at Utah and one unit at Gold/Juno to even make that move (and those were, historically, the two easiest beaches - Omaha has no such support on round one). It will be well into the turn before much of the artillery can be brought into action.

quote:

You don't need to object. I'm explaining how this (the artillery becoming unavailable if they directly bombard once) is a feature, not a bug.


Well, only if the Allied player is dumb enough to do what I did. A little patience gives the benefit of moving the two units onto one of the sea-road hexes, where that won't be a problem.

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Post #: 64
RE: “FRANCE 1944 D-DAY” DETAILED ALLIED FIRST TURN - 2/29/2008 3:59:52 PM   
Merv0728


Posts: 124
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Curtis, I have been reading the posts regarding this & have started running it in TOAW.

I have noticed something which I think will make a difference to the results other users get when running this scenario.

The unit ATTACK/DEFENSE figures are much smaller (1,1 for most) in the version of FRANCE 1944 D_DAY that came with the game & also the units involved in the first turn & attack plan are different. Is there another version that I should be using instead?

Thanks
Alan



(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 65
RE: “FRANCE 1944 D-DAY” DETAILED ALLIED FIRST TURN - 2/29/2008 5:11:25 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Merv0728

Hello Curtis, I have been reading the posts regarding this & have started running it in TOAW.

I have noticed something which I think will make a difference to the results other users get when running this scenario.

The unit ATTACK/DEFENSE figures are much smaller (1,1 for most) in the version of FRANCE 1944 D_DAY that came with the game & also the units involved in the first turn & attack plan are different. Is there another version that I should be using instead?


As I stated in post #1 in this thread, I was playing my new version 3, which is not yet available to the public - but will be included in the next patch.

The version #2 that is out there now got mucked up when Ralph edited the equipment list to add T-64As in the first slot of the "spare equipment". He didn't realize I was using that item. If you can't wait for the next patch, you could go into the editor and fix that yourself - just swap the second "spare equipment" item for any T-64As you find.

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Post #: 66
RE: “FRANCE 1944 D-DAY” DETAILED ALLIED FIRST TURN - 2/29/2008 10:05:39 PM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
The version #2 that is out there now got mucked up when Ralph edited the equipment list to add T-64As in the first slot of the "spare equipment". He didn't realize I was using that item. If you can't wait for the next patch, you could go into the editor and fix that yourself - just swap the second "spare equipment" item for any T-64As you find.


That seem to be the last 5 "SU" units in the Allied OOB if I have seen right


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Post #: 67
RE: “FRANCE 1944 D-DAY” DETAILED ALLIED FIRST TURN - 3/1/2008 12:43:51 PM   
Merv0728


Posts: 124
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Silvanski, would you please tell me what units you found them in ? I have been thro' all the units & can't find any.

Anyway,I don't understand how changing these items will affect all the other units including the German ones.
When I run this scenario the initial display shows about 90% of the units have 'attack & defense' figures of 1 & 1. The German units have also smaller figures for these values.

I may be wrong but if users that want to follow the thread then they need to start off with the same settings etc., or their results will differ somewhat & at some point they will lose track between his thread & their own situation.

Alan

(in reply to Silvanski)
Post #: 68
RE: “FRANCE 1944 D-DAY” DETAILED ALLIED FIRST TURN - 3/1/2008 5:21:37 PM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Merv0728

Hi Silvanski, would you please tell me what units you found them in ? I have been thro' all the units & can't find any.


Roll down the Allied OOB in the force editor, it's those so-called supply units


Formation:The Hague SU (122)
Proficiency:70%
Supply Level:80%
Support Scope:Force Support.
General Orders:Attack,Limit Losses.
Objective-1:73,17 (THE HAGUE).

Unit:The Hague SU,The Hague SU (1151)
Enters:73,17 (THE HAGUE) event:155. An immobile SU has been placed in The Hague
General unit type (from 2d icon symbol):Supply
Size Equivalent:Corps, weight:1000.
Proficiency:70%, untried
Readiness:100%
Supply Level:100%
Anti Armor Strength:0
Anti Personnel Strength:0
Anti Air Strength (High):0
Anti Air Strength:0
Defense Strength:7
Movement:0.
Reconstitute? Fixed:73,17 (THE HAGUE)
Equipment:
Spare Equipment:1000/1000.



Formation:Dunkerque SU (123)
Proficiency:70%
Supply Level:80%
Support Scope:Force Support.
General Orders:Attack,Limit Losses.
Objective-1:60,28 (DUNKERQUE).

Unit:Dunkerque SU,Dunkerque SU (1152)
Enters:60,28 (DUNKERQUE) event:156. An immobile SU has been placed in Dunkerque
General unit type (from 2d icon symbol):Supply
Size Equivalent:Corps, weight:1000.
Proficiency:70%, untried
Readiness:100%
Supply Level:100%
Anti Armor Strength:0
Anti Personnel Strength:0
Anti Air Strength (High):0
Anti Air Strength:0
Defense Strength:7
Movement:0.
Reconstitute? Fixed:60,28 (DUNKERQUE)
Equipment:
Spare Equipment:1000/1000.



Formation:Calais SU (124)
Proficiency:70%
Supply Level:80%
Support Scope:Force Support.
General Orders:Attack,Limit Losses.
Objective-1:56,29 (Calais).

Unit:Calais SU,Calais SU (1153)
Enters:56,29 (Calais) event:157. An immobile SU has been placed in Calais
General unit type (from 2d icon symbol):Supply
Size Equivalent:Corps, weight:1000.
Proficiency:70%, untried
Readiness:100%
Supply Level:100%
Anti Armor Strength:0
Anti Personnel Strength:0
Anti Air Strength (High):0
Anti Air Strength:0
Defense Strength:7
Movement:0.
Reconstitute? Fixed:56,29 (Calais)
Equipment:
Spare Equipment:1000/1000.



Formation:Boulogne SU (125)
Proficiency:70%
Supply Level:80%
Support Scope:Force Support.
General Orders:Attack,Limit Losses.
Objective-1:54,32 (BOULOGNE-SUR-MER).

Unit:Boulogne SU,Boulogne SU (1154)
Enters:54,32 (BOULOGNE-SUR-MER) event:158. An immobile SU has been placed in Boulogne-Sur-Mer
General unit type (from 2d icon symbol):Supply
Size Equivalent:Corps, weight:1000.
Proficiency:70%, untried
Readiness:100%
Supply Level:100%
Anti Armor Strength:0
Anti Personnel Strength:0
Anti Air Strength (High):0
Anti Air Strength:0
Defense Strength:7
Movement:0.
Reconstitute? Fixed:54,32 (BOULOGNE-SUR-MER)
Equipment:
Spare Equipment:1000/1000.



Formation:Le Havre SU (126)
Proficiency:70%
Supply Level:80%
Support Scope:Force Support.
General Orders:Attack,Limit Losses.
Objective-1:44,45 (LE HAVRE).

Unit:Le Havre SU,Le Havre SU (1155)
Enters:44,45 (LE HAVRE) event:62. An immobile SU has been placed in Le Harve
General unit type (from 2d icon symbol):Supply
Size Equivalent:Corps, weight:1000.
Proficiency:70%, untried
Readiness:100%
Supply Level:100%
Anti Armor Strength:0
Anti Personnel Strength:0
Anti Air Strength (High):0
Anti Air Strength:0
Defense Strength:7
Movement:0.
Reconstitute? Fixed:44,45 (LE HAVRE)
Equipment:
Spare Equipment:1000/1000.



_____________________________

The TOAW Redux Dude

(in reply to Merv0728)
Post #: 69
RE: “FRANCE 1944 D-DAY” DETAILED ALLIED FIRST TURN - 3/1/2008 7:00:58 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvanski
That seem to be the last 5 "SU" units in the Allied OOB if I have seen right


Correct, and thanks.

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Post #: 70
RE: “FRANCE 1944 D-DAY” DETAILED ALLIED FIRST TURN - 3/1/2008 7:06:21 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Merv0728
Anyway,I don't understand how changing these items will affect all the other units including the German ones.


All unit strength displays are scaled relative to the largest unit. I had 5 units with 1000 pieces of "spare equipment" in them. Ralph changed that item to "T-64A". So 5 units had 1000 T-64A's in them. That became the largest unit in the game by far, and rescaled everything else down to mostly 1-1s.

(in reply to Merv0728)
Post #: 71
RE: “FRANCE 1944 D-DAY” DETAILED ALLIED FIRST TURN - 3/3/2008 11:34:02 AM   
Merv0728


Posts: 124
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		Curtis & Silvanski, thanks to you both & now understood.


(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 72
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