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New Units/Functions - 8/27/2007 7:10:03 PM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline

Haven't played EF/WF in many years and its great to get back to such a great game!

Thanks for the update, Matrix has done it again by resurrecting a classic and making it better than it ever was.

I was just playing around with the new bits and pieces with the game, some really great ideas and attempts to slay some old problems as well. Are there any scenarios which showcase these features? Anyway I have come up with a few hitches, questions which you may be able to answer:

Was looking forward to the engineer stuff as river crossing used to be a big issue, and it looks like it still might be. Some observations:
'Engineer Trucks that transport the ferries and boats!' - I tried but don't think this is working yet. TS claimed that there was a problem carrying a carrier unit - I think its still the case.

-A secondary problem - the crewed boats and pontoon ferries only operate on water so you cannot load anyone onto them
-Question- do the bridging engineer units need to be used to make these units work?

The moving aircraft units are great, the observation ones seem to work but the bombers don't. Also the description of the 'Storch' needs some editing - it first says that the unit does not move on the map (it does) and then goes on to describe a battleship. The 'Airfield Ju-86' does not move and has no description, I suspect that it is simply supposed to be a target on an airfield and this could be explained in the description.

The idea of on map supply units and depots is great and the descriptions are self explanatory, a very slick way of handling this one I think. Do the maintenance units have any on map function or are they simply targets?

There are several new 'carrier' units in the German (EF Jun 41 and I suspect others) OOB. The 'Eastern' horses and wagons are a good idea but the description claims that the eastern variety are more suited to the rugged terrain. I looked but was unable to tell the difference between the two. The Unit data is not updated yet but I did a comparison of the unit data and all of the movement costs are the same - I think. It would be useful to have a list of what a pack horse can carry, tried to load MGs but no go. A similar list for Horses MCs and bicycles would be nice.

The scout and sniper units are a great idea, need to play around with them a bit but I think everything is working well with them.

The Navy stuff is interesting, limited scope in EF but will be good for RS (could have used it in an old Leningrad scenario I built). The barges suffer from the same problem as the crewed boats, i.e. the land units cannot go to them and they cannot go to the land unit. Although in this case, having a bridge in the water to represent a peer is more workable and understandable. Not sure what the submarine is for - if it could carry a raft and a scout at the same time maybe? Do the ships have the same carrying capacity as other carrier units (i.e. limited to the strength value) - not the best since even with a strength of 9 (CA) or 12 (BB) it is limited to one unit. How about the transport ship?

The rail units are great, only problem that I found was that the supply rail cars have a strength value of 12 so they effectively block the track, would be good if you cold have smaller elements and a way of 'hooking' them to one of the other trains or have an separate rail engine unit to move them - say to an exit hex. For some reason I couldn't get the trains to cross certain hex sides and for the life of me I cannot remember how to show the terrain info (I think there is a way of showing it on the 'u' display but cannot recall).

The organizations in the OOB editor are fantastic, whoever did the research for that has got to take some kudos.

Bart Gauvin

_____________________________

Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!: http://northernfury.us/
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Post #: 1

RE: New Units/Functions - 8/27/2007 7:23:10 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Haven't played EF/WF in many years and its great to get back to such a great game! Thanks for the update, Matrix has done it again by resurrecting a classic and making it better than it ever was. I was just playing around with the new bits and pieces with the game, some really great ideas and attempts to slay some old problems as well. Are there any scenarios which showcase these features? Anyway I have come up with a few hitches, questions which you may be able to answer:

Glad you are enjoying them!

No scenarios yet, but we are working on them for the next coming patches!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
Was looking forward to the engineer stuff as river crossing used to be a big issue, and it looks like it still might be. Some observations:
'Engineer Trucks that transport the ferries and boats!' - I tried but don't think this is working yet. TS claimed that there was a problem carrying a carrier unit - I think its still the case.
-A secondary problem - the crewed boats and pontoon ferries only operate on water so you cannot load anyone onto them
-Question- do the bridging engineer units need to be used to make these units work?

Some thing to note about pontoon ferries and selfpropelled boats.

1. To load them - assuming they aren't loaded at the start of a scenario - load an infantry unit or something (the associated engineers would be a good use for this) onto the pontoon ferries, then load the loaded ferry on the engineer trucks. The ferries will remain loaded on the trucks, but the infantry will unload.

2. They need to be loaded into a marsh or shallow water. (Ensure you have a road or path into the marsh in order for the engineer trucks to enter a marsh.)

3. You can only load them in a marsh or shallow water.

4. They can only unload them in a marsh or shallow water.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
The moving aircraft units are great, the observation ones seem to work but the bombers don't. Also the description of the 'Storch' needs some editing - it first says that the unit does not move on the map (it does) and then goes on to describe a battleship. The 'Airfield Ju-86' does not move and has no description, I suspect that it is simply supposed to be a target on an airfield and this could be explained in the description.

Duly noted about the editing of the Storch.

The Airfield aircraft do NOT move. They are only there to represent aircraft that is operating on an airfield. I am in the middle of designing a scenario where GD is tasked of preventing the Soviets from bombarding an airfield in the area south of Smolensk. These aircraft are ideal for that.

Only the Storch shall move as a recce unit. The numbers for this unit will be changing in 1.03.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
The idea of on map supply units and depots is great and the descriptions are self explanatory, a very slick way of handling this one I think. Do the maintenance units have any on map function or are they simply targets?

Simply targets at the moment, but I am hoping for a future use.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
There are several new 'carrier' units in the German (EF Jun 41 and I suspect others) OOB. The 'Eastern' horses and wagons are a good idea but the description claims that the eastern variety are more suited to the rugged terrain. I looked but was unable to tell the difference between the two. The Unit data is not updated yet but I did a comparison of the unit data and all of the movement costs are the same - I think. It would be useful to have a list of what a pack horse can carry, tried to load MGs but no go. A similar list for Horses MCs and bicycles would be nice.

Hmm, they should be a little different. I will double check and adjust accordingly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
The scout and sniper units are a great idea, need to play around with them a bit but I think everything is working well with them.

Very good, very good.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
The Navy stuff is interesting, limited scope in EF but will be good for RS (could have used it in an old Leningrad scenario I built). The barges suffer from the same problem as the crewed boats, i.e. the land units cannot go to them and they cannot go to the land unit. Although in this case, having a bridge in the water to represent a peer is more workable and understandable. Not sure what the submarine is for - if it could carry a raft and a scout at the same time maybe? Do the ships have the same carrying capacity as other carrier units (i.e. limited to the strength value) - not the best since even with a strength of 9 (CA) or 12 (BB) it is limited to one unit. How about the transport ship?

As above, barges need shallow water to load and unload units.

Unfortunately, yes.. the naval units are limited to one unit for now. Hopefully this can be remedied in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
The rail units are great, only problem that I found was that the supply rail cars have a strength value of 12 so they effectively block the track, would be good if you cold have smaller elements and a way of 'hooking' them to one of the other trains or have an separate rail engine unit to move them - say to an exit hex. For some reason I couldn't get the trains to cross certain hex sides and for the life of me I cannot remember how to show the terrain info (I think there is a way of showing it on the 'u' display but cannot recall).

They block the track for they would be generally larger trains. Adding sidings to the map would provide places to manuever around larger trains. Means you have to plan ahead with your train movements!

The only way I am aware of to see the hex side information is to look in view number 4 or 5.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
The organizations in the OOB editor are fantastic, whoever did the research for that has got to take some kudos.

And there is more to come!

Jason Petho

_____________________________

CS Vietnam

More info: Facebook & CS Legion

(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 2

RE: New Units/Functions - 8/28/2007 9:27:54 AM

Arkady

Posts: 1262
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: 27th Penal Battalion
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

There are several new 'carrier' units in the German (EF Jun 41 and I suspect others) OOB. The 'Eastern' horses and wagons are a good idea but the description claims that the eastern variety are more suited to the rugged terrain. I looked but was unable to tell the difference between the two. The Unit data is not updated yet but I did a comparison of the unit data and all of the movement costs are the same - I think. It would be useful to have a list of what a pack horse can carry, tried to load MGs but no go. A similar list for Horses MCs and bicycles would be nice.

Hmm, they should be a little different. I will double check and adjust accordingly.

Eastern Horses are faster outside the roads,

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Post #: 3

RE: New Units/Functions - 8/28/2007 2:05:16 PM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline

Jason,
Thanks for the quick response! Have tried what you have suggested with partial success:

Loading the pontoons and crewed boats in the editor and it worked exactly as you described - excellent

Tried it in a game and not so good. First turn loaded the Engr unit, 2nd turn loaded the pontoon - the engr got kicked out but the truck was loaded on the pontoon (instead of the other way round). Since it wouldn't move, I brought up another truck and loaded it. Sure enough the truck had the pontoon loaded and the pontoon had another truck loaded - a regular gypsy caravan. The whole bundle will move but when I 'right clicked' on the unit info section to see what was loaded, the truck disappeared, it was still on the map just the info box disappeared, and re-appeared when I released the right click. Next I moved the unit to a road/swamp hex and unloaded: now I had the 2nd truck and the pontoon still loaded with the first truck. Unfortunately I could not get the first truck unloaded and when I tried the game crashed. Also the pontoon would not move on water with the original truck loaded.

Barges, pontoons, crewed boats etc seemed to work fine starting from a road/swamp hex. I would suggest that the crewed boats be restricted to loading foot units only - it seems a little funny having a PzIIIJ loaded onto one.

Ships will load from a peer (paved road in deep water) into the heavy water, dismounts only - no vehicles. The Tpt unit was able to unload onto the peer, but when I tried with a BB would not for some reason.

Rail works fine except for two minor points to keep in mind for scenario design:
1) The rail unit will move into an industrial hex BUT cannot move out unless you have a rail link into that hex. It can move from a rail into the industrial but not back unless there is an actual rail line into the industrial hex.
2) When the rail line crosses an elevation change it usually works except for one hex side which I think is perhaps a cliff - can't be sure but it makes sense. So when making your maps be careful of that issue.

It would still be nice to be able to tow the supply trains around but not a biggie.

Thanks for the help

Bart Gauvin

_____________________________

Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!: http://northernfury.us/
And our blog: http://northernfury.us/blog/post2/
Twitter: @NorthernFury94 or Facebook https://www.facebook.com/northernfury/

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 4

RE: New Units/Functions - 8/28/2007 4:14:34 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Jason,
Thanks for the quick response! Have tried what you have suggested with partial success:

Loading the pontoons and crewed boats in the editor and it worked exactly as you described - excellent

Tried it in a game and not so good. First turn loaded the Engr unit, 2nd turn loaded the pontoon - the engr got kicked out but the truck was loaded on the pontoon (instead of the other way round). Since it wouldn't move, I brought up another truck and loaded it. Sure enough the truck had the pontoon loaded and the pontoon had another truck loaded - a regular gypsy caravan. The whole bundle will move but when I 'right clicked' on the unit info section to see what was loaded, the truck disappeared, it was still on the map just the info box disappeared, and re-appeared when I released the right click. Next I moved the unit to a road/swamp hex and unloaded: now I had the 2nd truck and the pontoon still loaded with the first truck. Unfortunately I could not get the first truck unloaded and when I tried the game crashed. Also the pontoon would not move on water with the original truck loaded.

Hmm. Maybe the order is important. Ensure the trucks are on top of the stack? Or vica versa. It worked ok with my testing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
Barges, pontoons, crewed boats etc seemed to work fine starting from a road/swamp hex. I would suggest that the crewed boats be restricted to loading foot units only - it seems a little funny having a PzIIIJ loaded onto one.

Yes, that is an error and will be corrected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
Ships will load from a peer (paved road in deep water) into the heavy water, dismounts only - no vehicles. The Tpt unit was able to unload onto the peer, but when I tried with a BB would not for some reason.

The transport will probably need a shallow water hex, similar to a barge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
Rail works fine except for two minor points to keep in mind for scenario design:
1) The rail unit will move into an industrial hex BUT cannot move out unless you have a rail link into that hex. It can move from a rail into the industrial but not back unless there is an actual rail line into the industrial hex.

Strange, but duly noted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
2) When the rail line crosses an elevation change it usually works except for one hex side which I think is perhaps a cliff - can't be sure but it makes sense. So when making your maps be careful of that issue.

Yes, that does make sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
It would still be nice to be able to tow the supply trains around but not a biggie.

There are separate supply trains to use instead. The two supply rail cars are for larger railyards.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
Thanks for the help

No problem!!

Hope you're enjoying the Campaign Series!

Jason Petho

< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 8/28/2007 4:51:12 PM >

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(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 5

RE: New Units/Functions - 8/29/2007 8:35:31 AM

serg3d

Posts: 137
Joined: 8/23/2003
Status: offline

Request about EF:
There are only two LCG for russian side, and both brigade level (mean a lot of units in one battle). Operation Rumyancev listed as battalion level, but that is a mistake - it is brigade too.
Are there any hope for new LCG, especially small, batallion size ?
Thank for great game BTW

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 6

RE: New Units/Functions - 8/30/2007 3:25:25 AM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: serg3d

Are there any hope for new LCG, especially small, batallion size ?
Thank for great game BTW

Yes, this is being looked into. Just a matter of time as it takes awhile to make LCG's.

Jason Petho

_____________________________

CS Vietnam

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(in reply to serg3d)

Post #: 7

RE: New Units/Functions - 8/31/2007 11:42:09 PM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline

Jason,

Your right about the order, if you follow these steps it works in both editor and game:

1) Engr on top, then pontoon or boat, then the truck
2) 1st Load the Engr onto the pontoon or boat
3) 2nd load the pontoon or boat onto the truck, the pontoon stays on the truck and the engr is kicked out.

In the game this takes two turns because of op points used

Its good to remember that this is a slow operation: the trucks are slow, the launch and landing sites are very limited and stacking in the launch sights makes it an ideal target - sort of like the real thing.

I am building a scenario to showcase the feature, once finshed I can post it somewhere, its not particularly historical but I think typical of hundreds of similar operations. Where is the best place to send it?

Bart G

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 8

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/1/2007 12:08:42 AM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

If you zip the files, you should be able to attach it in the "Mods and Scenarios" area up top.

Will be excellent to see!

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

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Post #: 9

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/1/2007 5:56:06 AM

Hermann

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline

Poor Jason ... You gotta be exhausted

Let me translate :

Gunner says : IF I create a tutorial scenario will you put it in the game ?
Jason says : SURE ! I will add it to the Mod scetion of the forums....

I think what Gunner is trying to say is that the new functions need Tutorial Scenarios to explain them and that he is offering his services. This would of course be a good policy in future patches as well..

And yes I speak Forum.

I wouldnt mind building a few DCG/LCGs Im fat and old and have time on my hands..

but I'm a lonely coOt and would rather team up with a collaborator.

If you find any let me know please.

(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 10

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/9/2007 7:30:45 PM

Hammer732

Posts: 45
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline

Dear Jason,
I have a question about the Bridging Engineers. I see that I can load troops onto pontoon ferries and move them across rivers. Can these pontoons also be used to construct pontoon bridges and are the Bridging Engineers intended to do so? I am trying out the nightime River Crossing scenario in EF.

Thanks!

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 11

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/9/2007 8:29:32 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hammer732

Dear Jason,
I have a question about the Bridging Engineers. I see that I can load troops onto pontoon ferries and move them across rivers. Can these pontoons also be used to construct pontoon bridges and are the Bridging Engineers intended to do so? I am trying out the nightime River Crossing scenario in EF.

Thanks!

No, unfortunately the bridging engineers do not have any bridge building capabilities yet. The pontoon ferries are for transporting light and heavy units across a river, they cannot be created into pontoon bridges.

At the moment, they are included in the OOB to provide cover, via smoke if available, and to assist in loading the ferries onto the engineer trucks. Keep in mind, they do not have the same firepower as the typical combat engineers included.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 12

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/15/2007 12:54:48 AM

Hammer732

Posts: 45
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline

Thanks Jason. Sorry for the late reply. I was wondering if you know of any sites where I can find alternate sound files for the series (weapons, movement etc).

Thanks!

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 13

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/15/2007 4:34:18 AM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hammer732

Thanks Jason. Sorry for the late reply. I was wondering if you know of any sites where I can find alternate sound files for the series (weapons, movement etc).

Thanks!

Unfortunately, off the top of my head, I can't think of anything.

Jason Petho

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CS Vietnam

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Post #: 14

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/15/2007 4:45:28 AM

junk2drive

Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

There are some sound mods at Jorge Grillo's Divided Ground Vietnam website. You might be able to make them work with JTCS.

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Post #: 15

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/15/2007 7:35:09 PM

Hammer732

Posts: 45
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline

Dear junk2drive,
I searched for the Grillo site but cannot find it. Do you have a link?

Thanks, H732.

(in reply to junk2drive)

Post #: 16

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/15/2007 7:43:34 PM

junk2drive

Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

http://www.freewebs.com/dgvnmods/mods.htm

The sound mods are at the bottom.

(in reply to Hammer732)

Post #: 17

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/15/2007 7:56:29 PM

Hammer732

Posts: 45
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline

Excellent. Thanks!!!

(in reply to junk2drive)

Post #: 18

RE: New Units/Functions - 9/15/2007 9:12:02 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

Keep in mind, you will have to convert these to work.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 19

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