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RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/2/2007 5:17:25 AM

Greyshaft

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here are the first couple of pages for the last Introductory tutorial.

I suggest having a non-solitaire game in this screenshot.
If it were a multi-player game screenshot then it would show the use of phase 5 - assigning players.
It is not clear from this screen which countries (if any) are being played by the AI

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Post #: 31

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/2/2007 7:32:52 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

I suggest having a non-solitaire game in this screenshot.
If it were a multi-player game screenshot then it would show the use of phase 5 - assigning players.
It is not clear from this screen which countries (if any) are being played by the AI

I want to use solitaire here. Tutorial page 1.7 shows 4 players over the internet with step 5 in detail.

But you are correct that I messed this up. Step 5 should be filled in with assignments for Neophyte and AI Opponent. I took the screen shot too soon. I fix.

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Post #: 32

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/2/2007 11:23:43 AM

Froonp

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About naval replacement units, they are not only for Japan as you wrote in page 4 of tutorial 10, France and Germany also have some. You can also had a few know example as the Hyuga & Ise in brackets.

About boxes for phases & subphases, may I suggest that subphases have smaller boxes than their mother box ? If not smaller size, maybe smaller text, well, something that visually shows that it is a subphase.

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Post #: 33

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/2/2007 11:52:19 AM

Toed

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Do the player have access to the map in any other phase other then the ones with a yellow hexagon? Beeing able to se the map helps alot of decisions during most phases. For example during the DOW phase if you want to check if your units are in the optimal position to declare war or during the Choose action phase if you need to check if for example you hope you can do a combined or if you need another land move. Or any phase when you come back after having loaded a saved game.

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Post #: 34

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/2/2007 11:53:53 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
About naval replacement units, they are not only for Japan as you wrote in page 4 of tutorial 10, France and Germany also have some. You can also had a few know example as the Hyuga & Ise in brackets.

About boxes for phases & subphases, may I suggest that subphases have smaller boxes than their mother box ? If not smaller size, maybe smaller text, well, something that visually shows that it is a subphase.

I'll correct the error about the Replacements but I still want to say nothing about them. It is an optional rule of very little consequence. The other subphases are vastly more important.

How about this for differentiating the boxes for Stages from Phases from Subphases? In the later category I am including some items that are not officially subphases in the MWIF code (e.g., reroll for initative.

I think I'll changes the text for phase names to a black font. And make the subphase text smaller - but keep it red.

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Post #: 35

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/2/2007 12:32:15 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
How about this for differentiating the boxes for Stages from Phases from Subphases? In the later category I am including some items that are not officially subphases in the MWIF code (e.g., reroll for initative.

I think I'll changes the text for phase names to a black font. And make the subphase text smaller - but keep it red.

That's better IMO, at least now you understand at glance what is within what, and what follows what.

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Post #: 36

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/2/2007 12:44:14 PM

Greyshaft

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Third and fourth sentances of first para of Tutorial 10 page 4 are apparently inconsistent. You say '...could be...' implying uncertainty then say '...always happens...' implying inevitability. I reread it and saw that you are pointing to a special case (one player controlling multiple powers) but the the third sentance says '...ahead of or behind...' when perhaps you mean that player will be active '... ahead of and behind...' the other players. I still don't know what are you trying to say here.

Perhaps have phasenames in a different font. I found the last para confusing until I realised 'Initiative' represented a phasename rather than a state of play. Also the word is capitalised in the first sentance of the para but not so in the last sentance - I appreciate that is because it is not a phasename in the last sentance but it still looks confusing to me.

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Post #: 37

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/2/2007 12:54:37 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
Perhaps have phasenames in a different font. I found the last para confusing until I realised 'Initiative' represented a phasename rather than a state of play. Also the word is capitalised in the first sentance of the para but not so in the last sentance - I appreciate that is because it is not a phasename in the last sentance but it still looks confusing to me.

Or put them between quotes : "Initiative".

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Post #: 38

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/4/2007 9:28:20 PM

composer99

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
5th and last in the series. Screen shots for this page provided by Patrice.

quote:

I recommend praying to the dice gods too.

Nothing like pandering to gamers' superstitious natures.

Come to think of it, my allies and I need to do a little praying to the dice gods to start off our next game session.

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Post #: 39

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/6/2007 11:39:38 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here is a revised page 4. I have made the font for the phases black and included text about what the box outlines mean. The yellow outline is explained on a revised earlier page (not shown). Responding to comments by several people, I also reworked the text so it is clearer.

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Post #: 40

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/6/2007 11:44:11 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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2nd and last in this series. This is a new page. There is a ton of stuff to cover and I have had to spread it out over several pages. My main goal was to show the complete air mission sequence on one page. To do that I had to put the air-to-air combat sequence on another page. Even so, to even begin to discuss what happens in each box needs more words than can be squeezed onto one page. Therefore, I had to reference future pages (9, 10, and 11) for more text descriptions.

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Post #: 41

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 3:27:16 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here are 4 new pages for this tutorial. I need to clean up the graphics a bit - use more dashed lines to show conditional branches.

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Post #: 42

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 3:28:35 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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I called this half of the naval combat sequence Preparation, but I doubt I will use the name anywhere else.

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Post #: 43

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 3:29:45 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Similarly, this one is called Execution.

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Post #: 44

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 3:30:43 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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4th and last in the series.

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Post #: 45

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 3:36:08 PM

Neilster

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A thread about board wargames in the General Discussion forum has reminded me about a point I made earlier about the mode of play terminology. "Solitaire" in wargaming means to play oneself but in MWiF it will mean "vs AI". To actually play solitaire a player will have to select "Hot Seat (Head to Head)"

This doesn't make any sense IMHO. Why are we trying to redefine wargaming terminology? Why not rename "Solitaire" as "vs computer" or "vs AI". It's much clearer.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 46

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 6:23:11 PM

Mziln

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

A thread about board wargames in the General Discussion forum has reminded me about a point I made earlier about the mode of play terminology. "Solitaire" in wargaming means to play oneself but in MWiF it will mean "vs AI". To actually play solitaire a player will have to select "Hot Seat (Head to Head)"

This doesn't make any sense IMHO. Why are we trying to redefine wargaming terminology? Why not rename "Solitaire" as "vs computer" or "vs AI". It's much clearer.

Cheers, Neilster

I base my opinion on multi-player empire building games (which I have played to death) like:

Birthright (I have the patch that allows you to: play the Gorgon or the Dark Elf and edit the map)
Empires (an oldie but a goodie)
Emperor of the Fading Suns (I just might dust this one off again)
Reach for the Stars (old version) (We nicknamed this "Grope for the Stars")
Space Empires (IV and IV Gold)

I have seen "Single Player" mode but do not recall ever seeing a "Solitaire" mode being offered on any multi-player game. Therefore I would prefer to drop the term "Solitaire" completely since it could be handled under "Hot Seat". "Play vs. a Computer Player" is usualy an option not a mode.

If I'm not wrong the standard accepted mode descriptions for turn-based empire building games are:

"Hot Seat" = Single or multiple players taking turns on the same computer with optional AI players.
"Internet" = Multiple players taking turns using the Internet with optional AI players.
"Play by Email or PBEM" = Multiple players taking turns using Email with optional AI players.

But this is just my opinion.

Steve can and will develop the game as he sees fit.

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Post #: 47

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 7:54:17 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

A thread about board wargames in the General Discussion forum has reminded me about a point I made earlier about the mode of play terminology. "Solitaire" in wargaming means to play oneself but in MWiF it will mean "vs AI". To actually play solitaire a player will have to select "Hot Seat (Head to Head)"

This doesn't make any sense IMHO. Why are we trying to redefine wargaming terminology? Why not rename "Solitaire" as "vs computer" or "vs AI". It's much clearer.

Cheers, Neilster

I have no emotional attachment to this stuff.

If the label AI Opponent is preferred, then so be it.

I could also add another mode separating Head to Head into: Hot Seat and Solitaire.

And I can relabel "Mode of Play" to something else too. Though nothing better comes to mind at this moment.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 48

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 10:52:10 PM

Froonp

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Page 8:

Last paragraph, you say :
The second place in the sequence of play where naval units move occurs when they return to base following an unsuccessful naval combat.

I would say :
The second place in the sequence of play where naval units move occurs when they return to base withdrawing from a naval combat where they took damage.

Page 9:
3rd paragraph, you say :
Both sides, phasing side first, move air units into the sea area.

I would say :
Both sides, phasing side first, react air units into the sea area.

I thought I had found a spelling error yesterday, but I can't find it anymore now

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Post #: 49

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/11/2007 11:57:16 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Page 8:

Last paragraph, you say :
The second place in the sequence of play where naval units move occurs when they return to base following an unsuccessful naval combat.

I would say :
The second place in the sequence of play where naval units move occurs when they return to base withdrawing from a naval combat where they took damage.

Page 9:
3rd paragraph, you say :
Both sides, phasing side first, move air units into the sea area.

I would say :
Both sides, phasing side first, react air units into the sea area.

I thought I had found a spelling error yesterday, but I can't find it anymore now .

Naval units can withdraw from a combat even if none of them was damaged. I could take out the word 'unsuccessful'(?).

React is not quite correct English here for what is happening. Move (or fly) is ok. To make the statement more precise would get into a lot of details, and those are being glossed over everywhere in these writeups about the sequence of play.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 50

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/12/2007 12:17:38 AM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Naval units can withdraw from a combat even if none of them was damaged. I could take out the word 'unsuccessful'(?).

I was assuming that you talked about the units quitting combat after havin suffered damage or abort results, not those aborting the sea area after the combat after the decision of their side to completely flee the sea area.

quote:

React is not quite correct English here for what is happening. Move (or fly) is ok. To make the statement more precise would get into a lot of details, and those are being glossed over everywhere in these writeups about the sequence of play.

It is not quite correct English, but it is fully correct WiF FE vocabulary, that is often seen in game reports. It convey better the emergency feeling of air units rushing to help their side (half range) when patrol becomes action.

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Post #: 51

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/12/2007 12:53:17 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Naval units can withdraw from a combat even if none of them was damaged. I could take out the word 'unsuccessful'(?).

I was assuming that you talked about the units quitting combat after havin suffered damage or abort results, not those aborting the sea area after the combat after the decision of their side to completely flee the sea area.

quote:

React is not quite correct English here for what is happening. Move (or fly) is ok. To make the statement more precise would get into a lot of details, and those are being glossed over everywhere in these writeups about the sequence of play.

It is not quite correct English, but it is fully correct WiF FE vocabulary, that is often seen in game reports. It convey better the emergency feeling of air units rushing to help their side (half range) when patrol becomes action.

Well, what is happening is that the players are hurrying air units to a sea area under attack to support/reinforce units that are already there. To say that would take a lot of room (very little available) and raise even more questions.

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Post #: 52

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/12/2007 1:33:32 AM

Froonp

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Yes, and I thought that "reacted" carried this meaning more than "moved".

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Post #: 53

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/14/2007 12:19:47 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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A couple new pages for this, the longest tutorial.

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Post #: 54

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/14/2007 12:20:52 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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2nd and last in series.

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Post #: 55

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/14/2007 6:48:39 PM

lomyrin

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On the claims of E Poland and the Baltic States CWiF makes the claims during the DoW phase of an impulse, before the units can move into the area.

There are also alignment actions that are taken before a unit can enter the area in question.

Lars

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Post #: 56

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/14/2007 6:56:20 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
A couple new pages for this, the longest tutorial.

About page 12, last paragraph.
You say that :
"Overun naval units either do a forced rebase, are destroyed or are captured. It dosen't matter whether they are organized or not".

Wereas RAW is :

*********************************************
11.11.6 Overruns
Overrunning naval units
"If a land unit from the other side moves into a port containing any of your naval units, they must rebase. Before they do, roll for each face-down or surprised naval unit there."
*********************************************

So being organized or not matter, because if the naval unit is organized and not surprised, it only risks a forced rebase. It does not risks destruction or capture. Only surprised or face down (dizorganized) naval units risk this.

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Post #: 57

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/14/2007 8:11:42 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
A couple new pages for this, the longest tutorial.

About page 12, last paragraph.
You say that :
"Overun naval units either do a forced rebase, are destroyed or are captured. It dosen't matter whether they are organized or not".

Wereas RAW is :

*********************************************
11.11.6 Overruns
Overrunning naval units
"If a land unit from the other side moves into a port containing any of your naval units, they must rebase. Before they do, roll for each face-down or surprised naval unit there."
*********************************************

So being organized or not matter, because if the naval unit is organized and not surprised, it only risks a forced rebase. It does not risks destruction or capture. Only surprised or face down (dizorganized) naval units risk this.

I'll correct this.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 58

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/14/2007 8:23:09 PM

Mziln

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

On the claims of E Poland and the Baltic States CWiF makes the claims during the DoW phase of an impulse, before�the units can move into the area.

There are also alignment actions that are�taken before a unit can enter the area in question.

Lars�

But CWiF was in beta and not finished or the following rules would work as follows:

quote:

quote:

17. Vichy France

The Axis may be in a position to install a Vichy French government before France is conquered.

17.1 Creation

An Axis major power can choose to install a Vichy Government if one of its in-supply land units occupies Paris in a peace step and France is not conquered. If more than one Axis major power occupies Paris, then Germany has first choice as to whether it wishes to establish a Vichy government.
quote:

19.5.1 Eastern Poland

The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland during any Allied land movement step. However, it can onlyexercise those rights if Poland has not been conquered.

You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of eastern Poland.
quote:

19.5.2 Baltic States

The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) during any Allied land movement step after it has exercised its rights to eastern Poland. You can only exercise your rights over those states that are neutral.

You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of the Baltic States.
Once you exercise those rights, the Baltic States are considered immediately conquered by the Soviet Union (without the Baltic States being aligned or its units set up).

< Message edited by Mziln -- 9/14/2007 8:36:47 PM >

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Post #: 59

RE: Sequence of Play Tutorial - #10 - 9/14/2007 11:48:01 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

On the claims of E Poland and the Baltic States CWiF makes the claims during the DoW phase of an impulse, before�the units can move into the area.

There are also alignment actions that are�taken before a unit can enter the area in question.

Lars�

But CWiF was in beta and not finished or the following rules would work as follows:

quote:

quote:

17. Vichy France

The Axis may be in a position to install a Vichy French government before France is conquered.

17.1 Creation

An Axis major power can choose to install a Vichy Government if one of its in-supply land units occupies Paris in a peace step and France is not conquered. If more than one Axis major power occupies Paris, then Germany has first choice as to whether it wishes to establish a Vichy government.
quote:

19.5.1 Eastern Poland

The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland during any Allied land movement step. However, it can onlyexercise those rights if Poland has not been conquered.

You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of eastern Poland.
quote:

19.5.2 Baltic States

The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) during any Allied land movement step after it has exercised its rights to eastern Poland. You can only exercise your rights over those states that are neutral.

You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of the Baltic States.
Once you exercise those rights, the Baltic States are considered immediately conquered by the Soviet Union (without the Baltic States being aligned or its units set up).