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RE: Early September Update - 9/5/2007 6:07:27 PM   
Alan_Bernardo

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Bowling Green, Ohio
Status: offline 		It is a bit odd that after more than four years since this game was announced, only one scenario has been developed. 

My suggestion is to either release the game with only one scenario or else cancel the stupid thing and move on.

It's senseless to keep this thing going, year after year.  This is not the Vietnam or Iraqi war.


Alan

(in reply to menik)
Post #: 31
RE: Early September Update - 9/6/2007 4:32:02 AM   
gazfun


Posts: 1046
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thresh

If it's a matter of more playtesters, I know more than a few people (including me) willing to volunteer their time.

At this point I think the game has come to far to be canceled, but then I ain't the guy writing the checks....

YMMV,
Thresh



I doubt whether your attitude to the "niche game at best" in another forum will do you any favours actually. LOL

_____________________________


(in reply to Thresh)
Post #: 32
RE: Early September Update - 9/7/2007 1:04:11 AM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Did you have a chance to speak with him David?

The latest comments on status seem quite different then Marshall's comments in August. An update would eb appreciated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Hi Guys

I am due to talk with Marshall and I will get the full proper scoop for everyone.  Don't worry just as of yet.

David




(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 33
RE: Early September Update - 9/7/2007 5:40:11 AM   
dinsdale


Posts: 384
Joined: 5/1/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gazfun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thresh

If it's a matter of more playtesters, I know more than a few people (including me) willing to volunteer their time.

At this point I think the game has come to far to be canceled, but then I ain't the guy writing the checks....

YMMV,
Thresh



I doubt whether your attitude to the "niche game at best" in another forum will do you any favours actually. LOL


Given that the game is >4 years late and suffering from a shortage of testers, I should think any sane development group wouldn't be fussy about some forum comments provided the person can test.

Then again.....

(in reply to gazfun)
Post #: 34
RE: Early September Update - 9/7/2007 5:40:12 AM   
Thresh

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 12/25/2006
From: KCMO
Status: offline 		Well, the truth hurts sometimes.

Lets be honest, this isn't Halo 3 we're waiting on. And judging from the commercial success of other Napoleonic Era computer games, EiA would have to be several things it apparently isn't to appeal to those players who weren't going to buy it in the first place.

EiA is going to appeal to a specific group of players, and it's impact/influence beyond that core group is going to be minimal at best.

If thats not niche...

Thresh


quote:

ORIGINAL: gazfun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thresh

If it's a matter of more playtesters, I know more than a few people (including me) willing to volunteer their time.

At this point I think the game has come to far to be canceled, but then I ain't the guy writing the checks....

YMMV,
Thresh



I doubt whether your attitude to the "niche game at best" in another forum will do you any favours actually. LOL


(in reply to gazfun)
Post #: 35
RE: Early September Update - 9/7/2007 5:41:52 AM   
Thresh

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 12/25/2006
From: KCMO
Status: offline 		Heck, I originally volunteered when they first asked for playtesters some five plus years ago. Back then I was told they had more than enough people and a waiting list.

How times have changed...

Thresh


quote:

ORIGINAL: dinsdale


quote:

ORIGINAL: gazfun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thresh

If it's a matter of more playtesters, I know more than a few people (including me) willing to volunteer their time.

At this point I think the game has come to far to be canceled, but then I ain't the guy writing the checks....

YMMV,
Thresh



I doubt whether your attitude to the "niche game at best" in another forum will do you any favours actually. LOL


Given that the game is >4 years late and suffering from a shortage of testers, I should think any sane development group wouldn't be fussy about some forum comments provided the person can test.

Then again.....


(in reply to dinsdale)
Post #: 36
RE: Early September Update - 9/7/2007 3:12:41 PM   
Pans


Posts: 126
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Germany
Status: offline 		as waiting for so long - the game should be released asap. Scenarios can be added later so that this community at least can start playing.
Please give it to me now!!

(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 37
RE: Early September Update - 9/7/2007 9:20:17 PM   
jim pfleck

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 8/15/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I find this all a little nuts.  They are giving us monthly updates and have no obligation to any of us to make this game.  If they release the game now and it does not work as designed, people will flip out.  It is obvious that Matrix is not going to allocate more resources to this so all of you with your immediate demands can keep on dreaming.  I look forward to this game and can manage to keep myself busy for another 6 to 24 months!

(in reply to Pans)
Post #: 38
RE: Early September Update - 9/9/2007 9:34:12 AM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		good for you Jimmy,

Try for another stunning and informative 5 posts over the next 6-24 months.


quote:

ORIGINAL: jim pfleck

I find this all a little nuts.  They are giving us monthly updates and have no obligation to any of us to make this game.  If they release the game now and it does not work as designed, people will flip out.  It is obvious that Matrix is not going to allocate more resources to this so all of you with your immediate demands can keep on dreaming.  I look forward to this game and can manage to keep myself busy for another 6 to 24 months!


(in reply to jim pfleck)
Post #: 39
RE: Early September Update - 9/9/2007 1:48:39 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

good for you Jimmy,

Try for another stunning and informative 5 posts over the next 6-24 months.


Now now. Let's not pick on people due to post counts. The last thing we need to do is suggest quantity matters over quality. And, he has every right to have low expectations just as you have every right to have higher ones. Speaking of which, I am surprised we haven't heard back from David yet. I can only assume he is trying to figure out the real status so he can report back appropriately.

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 40
RE: Early September Update - 9/9/2007 5:44:03 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		senarios? we dontcare about senarios ! just give us a full campaign, that's all what we need. If you want tto develop additional scenarios, to it in coming patches.

I thing this game should be released now. It has been annonced so many times in the paset...

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 41
RE: Early September Update - 9/10/2007 9:19:49 AM   
timewalker03

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 6/9/2003
From: Omaha, NE
Status: offline 		Nah! I am for sucking up to Marshall and his play test team and making them feel good about themselves. Then when nothing is being done we can give them a free pass and defend their honor when someone posts negatively about them.

Or maybe a good swift kick in the pants is in order. You choose which way to go. Patience is over rated.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 42
RE: Early September Update - 9/10/2007 7:44:28 PM   
Mark Breed


Posts: 342
Joined: 9/4/2003
From: Orange County, CA
Status: offline 		After all, you get more results with insults than praise!

Regards,
Mark

(in reply to timewalker03)
Post #: 43
RE: Early September Update - 9/10/2007 8:38:58 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		Matrix should sack the bloke and give it to someone capable like Frank Hunter to finish.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 9/11/2007 7:49:38 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Mark Breed)
Post #: 44
RE: Early September Update - 9/11/2007 10:03:59 AM   
gazfun


Posts: 1046
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Breed

After all, you get more results with insults than praise!

Regards,
Mark

Seems you havent priased enough people then, to know the differance


_____________________________


(in reply to Mark Breed)
Post #: 45
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 12:48:46 AM   
donkuchi19


Posts: 1062
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dinsdale


quote:

ORIGINAL: gazfun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thresh

If it's a matter of more playtesters, I know more than a few people (including me) willing to volunteer their time.

At this point I think the game has come to far to be canceled, but then I ain't the guy writing the checks....

YMMV,
Thresh



I doubt whether your attitude to the "niche game at best" in another forum will do you any favours actually. LOL


Given that the game is >4 years late and suffering from a shortage of testers, I should think any sane development group wouldn't be fussy about some forum comments provided the person can test.

Then again.....


I don't really recall Matrix giving a release date 4 years ago. I have only seen it said that it was in development. The only places that I saw release dates were at Amazon and EBgames. They make up their own release dates all of the time and they seem to be wrong most of the time. Just give it a rest. Complaining isn't going to make the game come out any quicker.

(in reply to dinsdale)
Post #: 46
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 1:48:23 AM   
StCyr

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 7/2/2003
Status: offline
quote:

I don't really recall Matrix giving a release date 4 years ago.


Not to recall does not mean that there was no release date... but well, 5 years ago

quote:

Matrix Games News Release

For Immediate Release

Press Contact:

David Heath

Matrix Games

davidh@matrixgames.com

Matrix Games and ADG To Bring Empires in Arms to the Computer!

Deal Signed to Develop Classic Napoleonic Wargame

Staten Island, NY, September 23rd, 2002 - Matrix Games and Australian Design Group (ADG: www.a-d-g.com.au ) are pleased to announce that the classic game of Napoleonic Grand Strategy, Empires In Arms, will be adapted for computer play with some new enhancements and features. Development is already well underway, with an expected release date of mid-2003.


< Message edited by StCyr -- 9/12/2007 1:53:50 AM >

(in reply to donkuchi19)
Post #: 47
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 2:08:02 AM   
jchastain


Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline 		While I believe it is healthy to take "them" to task over the grossly missed estimates and continued foolish expectation management around this long delayed title, I do hope we all realize that no one can be more disappointed and frustrated with the delays and missteps than Matrix and the Dev team.  While we might like to play the game, they are trying to run a business.  They have their time and money invested in making this happen and every day of delay is a day with ongoing costs but no offsetting revenue.  I won't suggest that we cut the team slack because they likely deserve some of the grief they are getting here.  But the indignity seems a bit thick.  This isn't a conspiracy where they are secretly trying to keep us from getting this game.  They WANT us to have this game.  They would have LOVED to publish it three years ago, start making their money back and all gone off to do new projects.  The fact that it has been delayed for so long means that there have been a string of problems - some of which were certainly their fault and others that were almost equally certainly not.  Nothing gets this messed up from one cause alone.  And the fact that it hasn't been published can only mean that it is still in a state where releasing it would be worse for them than yet another delay - which is to say we really don't want it yet.

NOTE:  This is in response to no one person or message in particular, but rather to the overall mood that this thread seems to convey.

(in reply to StCyr)
Post #: 48
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 2:28:02 AM   
StCyr

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 7/2/2003
Status: offline
quote:

I do hope we all realize that no one can be more disappointed and frustrated with the delays and missteps than Matrix and the Dev team. While we might like to play the game, they are trying to run a business.


well, just as Marshall is only part-time programmer, I expect him only to be part-time disappointed

quote:

And the fact that it hasn't been published can only mean that it is still in a state where releasing it would be worse for them than yet another delay


Well, perhapse Matrix will never release it, so I disagree with your "only mean"...

And indeed I wonder why to ask for a relase if it is for sure that any patch will also be done part-time, how to expect the suppport for this game will be any better than the development process itself ?
It is not very smart to ask for release at once.



< Message edited by StCyr -- 9/12/2007 2:37:09 AM >

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 49
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 3:23:17 AM   
dinsdale


Posts: 384
Joined: 5/1/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: donkuchi

I don't really recall Matrix giving a release date 4 years ago. I have only seen it said that it was in development. The only places that I saw release dates were at Amazon and EBgames. They make up their own release dates all of the time and they seem to be wrong most of the time. Just give it a rest. Complaining isn't going to make the game come out any quicker.

There was an infamous "we're close" post, and a pre-release slot on Gamespot. Followed by the inevitable "we have just a few more things to sort out" right after Christmas. Take a look in the forum, 11/12 2004. That was already a year after the first "close."

BTW, I know you probably can't read so well with that knee-jerk of yours, but I'm not complaining about the date. They can release it in 2008 or 2080 for all it matters.

(in reply to donkuchi19)
Post #: 50
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 5:03:30 AM   
donkuchi19


Posts: 1062
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		You can lay off the personal attacks. There was no knee-jerk reaction. I was making a statement that people should stop complaining that it hasn't been released yet. It won't make it come out any faster. I like coming here to check for updates, not people complaining non-stop.

I have been here since 2004 when I first found out about this game. Since this was announced, I have purchased many other excellent games from Matrix and I am willing to wait for this one as well.

(in reply to dinsdale)
Post #: 51
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 5:05:28 AM   
donkuchi19


Posts: 1062
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StCyr

quote:

I don't really recall Matrix giving a release date 4 years ago.


Not to recall does not mean that there was no release date... but well, 5 years ago

quote:

Matrix Games News Release

For Immediate Release

Press Contact:

David Heath

Matrix Games

davidh@matrixgames.com

Matrix Games and ADG To Bring Empires in Arms to the Computer!

Deal Signed to Develop Classic Napoleonic Wargame

Staten Island, NY, September 23rd, 2002 - Matrix Games and Australian Design Group (ADG: www.a-d-g.com.au ) are pleased to announce that the classic game of Napoleonic Grand Strategy, Empires In Arms, will be adapted for computer play with some new enhancements and features. Development is already well underway, with an expected release date of mid-2003.



That was posted before I came to these boards. It does say expected though .

(in reply to StCyr)
Post #: 52
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 4:19:50 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		this wasn't the release announcement but the starting of the development ...

(in reply to donkuchi19)
Post #: 53
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 4:38:58 PM   
StCyr

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 7/2/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

this wasn't the release announcement but the starting of the development ...


Neither donkuchi nor me used the term "release announcement", we both spoke about a date mentioned for release. Funny to bring up this term only to find out it does not fit
And why do you know better about the timeline than Matrix, calling it "the start of development" while D. Heath wrote "Development is already well underway" (because a former project was used for it) ?

I dont think this is relevant by now, I just wanted to give donkuchi an info, the current problems are not based on this topic.

< Message edited by StCyr -- 9/12/2007 4:43:40 PM >

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 54
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 6:00:07 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

this wasn't the release announcement but the starting of the development ...


Purely out of curiosity, I did a search on this forum for release predictions to see what the real history was. Here's what I found.

THIS post was the first I found, saying that he was "optimistic" for (but not guaranteeing) a release before the end of 2004.

By July of 2005, he was "hopeful to be finished in the next month or two" as stated HERE

By October of 2005, you could see the frustration as Marshall elected to stop providing HERE estimates because they were continuing to prove inaccurate.

He continue to not prove updates except for an update HERE that served only to reinforce that there would not be any more updates until there was more definitive news.

The real frustration here didn't begin to build until THIS post in March of this year when the long silence was broken to say that release was "very close".

Since then there have been various additional updates, but I'll omit that history as it is likely well known to the majority here.

Anyway, I just thought the actual history was interesting. I do think it is worth noting though that Matrix consistently leaves all the history out there - good and bad - for potential customers to review. I have to respect that level of transparency.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 55
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 7:38:18 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Guys

Look we are not trying to hide anything and this is why we do it this way.  Like real life thing need to be replanned and work on and this is what you are seeing here.  I also fully understand those who are upset over the LONG delay and we openly admit this being a lot more of a project then we gave it.  Remember this was signed back in our more youn and newbie stage .

All kidding aside we are working on this very hard and whatever we decide you should here it here first from me.

David



_____________________________


(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 56
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 7:41:20 PM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		I generally make it my policy not to post in other developers' subforums, limiting anything I have to say to the FOF or COG subforums, the General Discussion area, or the pillow I occasionally scream into. However, after reading the posts here from the past two weeks or so, I thought that I would share a developer's insights briefly. My main insight, based on being involved in developing two games and several significant patches -- including one patch that appeared months and months after I had originally made optimistic promises about its near-completion -- is that those of you on the outside often have no idea of what is going on on the inside and why release dates are being pushed back. Giving advice to this team on how to finish the game, therefore, is a waste of time, since you really don't know the exact nature of the hold-ups the team has encountered. Although I have had zero interactions with anyone involved in this project (other than David Heath, of course), I have little doubt that the delays are caused by the desire of the development team and testers to release a product worthy of the game on which it is based. Trust me, unless you've been on the inside of such a project, you really can't appreciate the sorts of things that can push back release times -- things that may or may not be in the developers' control. (And being one of this subforum's ubiquitous computer programmers only partly qualifies one to have a sense for this range of potential issues that can crop up.)

So, you might just want to consider these points before your next angry post.

< Message edited by Gil R. -- 9/12/2007 7:43:48 PM >

_____________________________

Michael Jordan plays ball. Charles Manson kills people. I torment eager potential customers by not sharing screenshots of "Brother Against Brother." Everyone has a talent.

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 57
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 7:46:15 PM   
SamuraiProgrmmr

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 10/17/2004
From: Paducah, Kentucky
Status: offline 		Hear Hear!!!



_____________________________

Bridge is the best wargame going .. Where else can you find a tournament every weekend?

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 58
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 8:16:55 PM   
denshiblocks

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 7/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.
Giving advice to this team on how to finish the game, therefore, is a waste of time,



finishing this game is a waste of time.

i have worked in the videogame industry at Electronic Arts and Activision, so my opinions while they are justopinions are still tempered with experience.

heres a question for david: how many testers are currently working on this game? how many programmers are working on the bug fixes?


(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 59
RE: Early September Update - 9/12/2007 8:39:14 PM   
Mark Breed


Posts: 342
Joined: 9/4/2003
From: Orange County, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gazfun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Breed

After all, you get more results with insults than praise!

Regards,
Mark

Seems you havent priased enough people then, to know the differance



I am being sarcastic!

(in reply to gazfun)
Post #: 60
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