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RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2

 
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RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/11/2007 2:55:30 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lascar

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

I'm playing beta 2 with Walloc atm and it seems pretty good to me.

Artillery casualties have been noticeably lower than 1.1, at the levels where I don't feel like I'm melting away - and theres only level 1 trenches involved.

Walloc tells me my arty is doing 45 hits though.


I am also suffering high hits in my game with you. Perhaps it is because you tend to concentrate your artillery more than I do. But 45 hits is excessive and distorts the overall effect of the game.

Right now this seems to be the major problem with GoA. A game, by the way, which is the among the best strategic level computer wargames I have seen in a long time. I preordered this game 5 years ago and it was well worth the wait.


I do cut down my own artillery casualties by keeping a small number of highly reinforced stacks, rather than a large number of partially filled corps. Arty seems to strike on a per corps basis. So four 10 strength corps will take more damage than 2 20 strength corps. As far as I can tell, anyway.


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(in reply to Lascar)
Post #: 61
RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/11/2007 3:00:16 AM   
Lascar


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lascar

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

I'm playing beta 2 with Walloc atm and it seems pretty good to me.

Artillery casualties have been noticeably lower than 1.1, at the levels where I don't feel like I'm melting away - and theres only level 1 trenches involved.

Walloc tells me my arty is doing 45 hits though.


I am also suffering high hits in my game with you. Perhaps it is because you tend to concentrate your artillery more than I do. But 45 hits is excessive and distorts the overall effect of the game.

Right now this seems to be the major problem with GoA. A game, by the way, which is the among the best strategic level computer wargames I have seen in a long time. I preordered this game 5 years ago and it was well worth the wait.


I do cut down my own artillery casualties by keeping a small number of highly reinforced stacks, rather than a large number of partially filled corps. Arty seems to strike on a per corps basis. So four 10 strength corps will take more damage than 2 20 strength corps. As far as I can tell, anyway.



It does make sense if troop (corps) density is greater thus creating a more target rich environment for the artillery.

(in reply to EUBanana)
Post #: 62
RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/11/2007 4:17:16 AM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		As I posted earlier, the "piling on" effect of multiple artillery units firing at a stack of corps has been diminished.  Stacking will still cause an increase in casualties but its less than what was previously the case.





(in reply to Lascar)
Post #: 63
RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/11/2007 4:27:53 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		So there's 2 effects - 1 is related adding more artillery units, the 2nd is the number of target strength points?

Does the effect for adding more units also apply to up-teched artillery - eg is a 6 point arty the same as 2 x 3 pt artillery?

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 64
RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/11/2007 4:39:33 AM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		Well, there's more than 2.  I modified the effect of multiple artillery units, the effect of multiple targets and the effect against trenches.

quote:

eg is a 6 point arty the same as 2 x 3 pt artillery?


A single 6 strength artillery unit will produce roughly the same result as 2 3-strength units when firing against targets in the open.  But the 6 strength unit will be far more effective firing on trenches.


(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 65
RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/11/2007 4:41:10 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Gotcha - thanks.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 66
RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/11/2007 5:16:07 AM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

A single 6 strength artillery unit will produce roughly the same result as 2 3-strength units when firing against targets in the open.  But the 6 strength unit will be far more effective firing on trenches.



That sounds good to me in general. I do have 1 request for u too consider tho. If its at all possible with in the mathematics of the formular. Could up teched art as they go up in tech maybe lose some of its effetiveness vs open, but keep it vs trenches.

Reason to me would be as follows.

Whether u in '14 or in '18. When ever one of ur attacks has been succesfull u per default with will up in open / trench 1. No way around that.
As i understand it now, in '14 when u in open and if enemy has 2 art that can fire on u just after the succesfull attack. You would from 2 art get around a 6 FP attack on u in that situasion.
In '18 u would in same situasion get a 12 FP assuming Art has been up teched.

This means if the hit u recieve is sorta liniaer that u get twice as many casulties up on after a succesfull attack in '18 than in '14, therefor be around "twice" as exposed to a counterattack.

I think we all agree that art and tactics and certainly evolved during that periode. In large in reponce to the also developing fortifications.

Question i ask my self is: Are u in '18 up on a succesfull attack much more likely to reciveve art casulties that in the game would mean u would be more exposed to a succesfull counterattack.

Im no WW1 expert, but so have some knowledge of it. It doesnt seem to me with Kaiseroffensive and end game ET attacks that happend in '18 was more exposed to art and there for be succesfully counterattacked.
If any thing the '18 offensives seemed comparitivly more succesfull than earlier.

Since there as stipulated early is no difference in time u have to be in "open/low trench" in '18 than '14. Apart from teh fact u dont have high trench yet, but thats not the point. Doesnt then a much more effective upteched art vs open in '18 make that a reality in the game?

Also if its agreed that much of the art and tactics evolved to deal with the fortications of the lines later on, logic doesnt necesarrily dictates that the upteched art would be particular more effective vs open.

Im short this makes me think that upteched art should possibly have diminishing returns vs open/low trenches.
So 2 upteched art with each 6 for a 12 FP isnt twice as casulty prone as 2 non upteched art. Not that it cant rise some in effectiveness but not a whole lot vs open/low trench.

Upteched art should indeed as u say be much more effective vs higher trenchsystems.


Does that make any sense?


Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 10/11/2007 5:22:12 AM >

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 67
RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/12/2007 6:54:04 PM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		In the newest version I did add a "dispersal" factor to artillery versus infantry in the open.  It will help reduce casualties from the better artillery.

How it works is after the artillery base values are figured the effectiveness of the artillery is then figured against each trench type.  In the case of troops in the open their chances are improved anywhere from 1 to 16% based on their quality and a further 10% if they're assault trained.

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 68
RE: Artillery in 1.2 beta 2 - 10/13/2007 5:17:56 AM   
Joel Rauber

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 10/4/2000
From: Brookings, SD, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lascar


It does make sense if troop (corps) density is greater thus creating a more target rich environment for the artillery.



Troop density is not the same as corp density. And I hope that the game makes a distinction.


_____________________________

Any relationship between what I say and reality is purely coincidental.

Joel Rauber

(in reply to Lascar)
Post #: 69
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