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When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 5:52:21 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		I came across this and thought I would share it...

quote:

One particularly interesting kill was scored by a Marine Lieutenant R.R. Klingman of VMF-312 Checkerboards, over Okinawa. According to the story, he was in pursuit of a Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu ("Nick") twin engine fighter at extremely high altitude when his guns jammed due to the gun lubrication thickening from the extreme cold. He simply flew up and chopped off the Ki-45's tail with the big propeller of the Corsair. Despite missing five inches off the end of his propeller blades, he managed to land safely and was awarded the Navy Cross.


I thought only Bugs Bunny did that
Post #: 1
RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 6:02:22 PM   
paladin333

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline 		Actually this was the common practice of Red Air Army in WW2.
A lot of Russian aces have 2-3 kills made by ramming his blade into enemy aircraft.
They called it "Taran".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramming

< Message edited by paladin333 -- 10/16/2007 6:07:45 PM >

(in reply to Big B)
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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 6:39:53 PM   
Joe D.


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From: Stratford, Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

... He simply flew up and chopped off the Ki-45's tail with the big propeller of the Corsair. Despite missing five inches off the end of his propeller blades, he managed to land safely and was awarded the Navy Cross.


I thought only Bugs Bunny did that


That also happened in an old Johnny Quest cartoon, but w/WW I biplanes. But the only kill was made by a Condor!


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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 6:40:29 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
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From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		There was an interesting segment on...that History Channel show...is it Warbirds, I can't recall.   The show recounted the stories of several German pilots who were sent up to ram B-17s.  One of them did exctaly the same.  He ran his 109 into the tail of the B-17 and chopped off the stabalizer.  Although, he lived, he didn't fly home though.

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 6:55:08 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
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From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		I once had a book ("Flying Fortress" I think) which had a picture of a B-17 in flight with a gash through the fuselage that practically cut it in half (the main spar on the underside apparently being all that held the plane together). Apparently the result of a ramming by or collision with a Bf109. The B17 made it back to England. OK here it is:







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by spence -- 10/16/2007 7:00:51 PM >

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 8:04:30 PM   
panda124c

 

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From: Houston, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

I once had a book ("Flying Fortress" I think) which had a picture of a B-17 in flight with a gash through the fuselage that practically cut it in half (the main spar on the underside apparently being all that held the plane together). Apparently the result of a ramming by or collision with a Bf109. The B17 made it back to England. OK here it is:








IRC the tail gunner said it was a wild ride home.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 6
RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 8:47:27 PM   
Historiker


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From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Several Me 262 scored kills by ramming (vs fighters) and landed savely.

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 8:49:13 PM   
Charbroiled


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

I once had a book ("Flying Fortress" I think) which had a picture of a B-17 in flight with a gash through the fuselage that practically cut it in half (the main spar on the underside apparently being all that held the plane together). Apparently the result of a ramming by or collision with a Bf109. The B17 made it back to England. OK here it is:








Is that a piece of the plane falling below the gash, or .......

(in reply to spence)
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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 9:03:16 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
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From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		http://youtube.com/watch?v=-_EXtBEaBbs
Something I thought about regarding the picture...


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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 9:10:02 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-_EXtBEaBbs
Something I thought about regarding the picture...



This is famous and well known story!




Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 9:23:21 PM   
AW1Steve


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From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

I once had a book ("Flying Fortress" I think) which had a picture of a B-17 in flight with a gash through the fuselage that practically cut it in half (the main spar on the underside apparently being all that held the plane together). Apparently the result of a ramming by or collision with a Bf109. The B17 made it back to England. OK here it is:







Actually the plane is the "hang the expense againIII " , and it was based in North Africa. Look at the roundel and you will see it is very early war.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 11
RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/16/2007 10:44:13 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Yes..That pic was taken over Tunisia.


http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedStories/03.03shortstories/03.03.13contss.htm

< Message edited by m10bob -- 10/17/2007 12:26:34 AM >

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/17/2007 12:11:30 AM   
Feinder


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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
quote:

IRC the tail gunner said it was a wild ride home.


You think?!

Talk about under-statement.



-F-

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/17/2007 12:36:19 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		That Tunisian B 17 was the "All American", and it fell apart once it landed.




Attachment (1)

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/17/2007 11:09:46 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Any landing you can walk away from.......




Attachment (1)

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/17/2007 5:13:44 PM   
Curty

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

That Tunisian B 17 was the "All American", and it fell apart once it landed.





This is a very close shave for the waist/tail gunners..the big man upstairs must have been looking after them


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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/17/2007 5:17:09 PM   
Curty

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Any landing you can walk away from.......





..AND AS FOR THIS! ITS THE WORST PARKING I'VE SEEN IN MY LIFE


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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/17/2007 5:24:52 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Any landing you can walk away from.......





Icredible - never seen such big aircraft do that!


BTW, how did the tail gunner get out?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 18
RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/17/2007 6:44:09 PM   
Dino


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Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Serbia
Status: offline 		In this case, I'd be more worried about the nose gunner...



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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 7:25:54 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline 		That's what an overstacked airfield looks like in WitP!

Chez

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Any landing you can walk away from.......







_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
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VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 11:31:14 AM   
m10bob


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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Any landing you can walk away from.......





Icredible - never seen such big aircraft do that!


BTW, how did the tail gunner get out?


Leo "Apollo11"


Very carefully!

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Post #: 21
RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 1:10:09 PM   
Reg


Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Any landing you can walk away from.......





This B-24M was from the 454th BG. This apparently occurred when the brakes were accidentally applied during the takeoff run.

(However, a close look at the photograph seems to indicate to me that a ditch was also involved, probably as the result of runway overshoot).

Six crew members in the nose section didn't walk away from this one.

Images of Air War 1939-45, Chaz Bowyer, 1983.

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Cheers,
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(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 2:01:53 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

This B-24M was from the 454th BG. This apparently occurred when the brakes were accidentally applied during the takeoff run.

(However, a close look at the photograph seems to indicate to me that a ditch was also involved, probably as the result of runway overshoot).

Six crew members in the nose section didn't walk away from this one.

Images of Air War 1939-45, Chaz Bowyer, 1983.


I was afraid of that... the front section looks very smashed...


Leo "Apollo11"

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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

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Post #: 23
RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 4:18:44 PM   
Curty

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Any landing you can walk away from.......






Six crew members in the nose section didn't walk away from this one.

Images of Air War 1939-45, Chaz Bowyer, 1983.


I would'nt have liked the job of sorting man from machine




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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 5:52:48 PM   
Feinder


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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
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The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner


From my mother's sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

-- Randall Jarrell

< Message edited by Feinder -- 10/18/2007 5:56:48 PM >

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 6:47:54 PM   
Curty

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
Status: offline 		.... an appropriate epitaph..

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 7:02:54 PM   
Curty

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Any landing you can walk away from.......





Icredible - never seen such big aircraft do that!


BTW, how did the tail gunner get out?


Leo "Apollo11"


Very carefully!


I HOPE THEY WER'NT TRYING TO REACH HIM WITH THAT LADDER PROPPED AGAINST THE FUSELAGE..DOH

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/18/2007 8:06:36 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
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From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Any landing you can walk away from.......





This B-24M was from the 454th BG. This apparently occurred when the brakes were accidentally applied during the takeoff run.

(However, a close look at the photograph seems to indicate to me that a ditch was also involved, probably as the result of runway overshoot).

Six crew members in the nose section didn't walk away from this one.

Images of Air War 1939-45, Chaz Bowyer, 1983.

I wonder about this happening during a take off, you know how those bomb things get upset about this sort of accident. I'm incline to belive it was a loss of brakes during landing and of course the ditch had to get in the act.

< Message edited by pbear -- 10/18/2007 8:10:05 PM >

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/19/2007 9:38:47 AM   
ilovestrategy


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From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curty


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

That Tunisian B 17 was the "All American", and it fell apart once it landed.





This is a very close shave for the waist/tail gunners..the big man upstairs must have been looking after them




I think it's a safe bet those waist/tail gunners went to the nearest bar right after getting out of that plane!

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RE: When reality looks like the cartoons... - 10/19/2007 1:59:12 PM   
Reg


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From: NSW, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbear

I wonder about this happening during a take off, you know how those bomb things get upset about this sort of accident. I'm incline to believe it was a loss of brakes during landing and of course the ditch had to get in the act.


I can only only go by what was on the photo caption. Chaz Bowyer has a formidable reputation as an aviation historian so thats good enough for me.

You do realise that an aircraft about to lift off the ground (rotating) is going just as fast as one that is landing (flaring). An aircraft reaching the point of no return (there is an aviation term for this) without achieving takeoff velocity is in just as much trouble as one landing without brakes. Takeoff accidents were all too common with these heavily (over) loaded aircraft departing on combat missions.

The bombloads were not fused* for takeoff and though there were instances of bombloads exploding, this was usually due to them cooking off in the post crash fire. Many awards for bravery were made for rescuing crash survivors under these circumstances though fire was not a factor on this occasion (much to the relief of the tail gunner I'm sure).

The additional weight of the bombload (centered in the bombbays located under the wings) may also have been a factor in the crumpling of the nose section.

(* or made safe)

Edit: Note the wing flaps aren't fully extended which is the usual configuration for takeoff. Full flaps gives more lift but creates more drag which is the last thing you want when you are trying to accelerate...

< Message edited by Reg -- 10/19/2007 4:48:00 PM >

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(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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