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RE: Reverse Mariannas Turkey Shoot

 
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RE: Reverse Mariannas Turkey Shoot - 7/10/2008 8:30:56 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I´m not happy about such a tactic too, stripping all bombers from fleet carriers to replace them with fighters is more gaming the game as being realistic. If you exchange one, two or three daitais or squadrons with fighters for whatever reason that´s fine with me, but creating fighter death stars with nearly 1000 fighters is only strange and not possible in real life when no one would be stripping his carriers of attack aircraft.

Trying to have LBA to support the carriers okay, no problem with me, but having a dozen carriers with fighters only... I don´t know...

_____________________________


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 541
RE: Reverse Mariannas Turkey Shoot - 7/10/2008 11:02:42 AM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		This tactic works both ways Dan......let his strike go in against 700 Hellcats and see what happens

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 542
RE: Reverse Mariannas Turkey Shoot - 7/10/2008 12:54:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I haven't even run the combat replay yet, because there was one thing I had to know.  I opened the turn file to see if my Hellcat squadrons had replenished from the CVE replenishment squadrons.  That's when I learned that  my carriers had reacted (against all orders and precautions, as usual) and are thus separated from the replenishment CVEs by a hex.  No replenishment occurred.  So my CVs and CVLs are down 140 Hellcats and have no bombers or torpedo aircaft.

If not for the react feature, my carriers would have fully re-stocked Hellcats, and could have replaced perhas 1/3rd of the attack aircraft.  It would have been a much different situation.

So because of the react feature, I will in all likelihood lose this battle and the war will come to and end.

Isn't the react feature wonderful?  (I had just posted yesterday on somebody else's thread how bad the react feature is...)

I'm going to take a hard look at the game turn to see if there's anything I can do.  If not, I may just concede the game.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 543
RE: Reverse Mariannas Turkey Shoot - 7/10/2008 1:11:42 PM   
Bliztk


Posts: 779
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Electronic City
Status: offline 		You can change your AirCVs to Escort mission. Then they NEVER react

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 544
RE: Reverse Mariannas Turkey Shoot - 7/10/2008 2:51:19 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I haven't even run the combat replay yet, because there was one thing I had to know.  I opened the turn file to see if my Hellcat squadrons had replenished from the CVE replenishment squadrons.  That's when I learned that  my carriers had reacted (against all orders and precautions, as usual) and are thus separated from the replenishment CVEs by a hex.  No replenishment occurred.  So my CVs and CVLs are down 140 Hellcats and have no bombers or torpedo aircaft.

If not for the react feature, my carriers would have fully re-stocked Hellcats, and could have replaced perhas 1/3rd of the attack aircraft.  It would have been a much different situation.

So because of the react feature, I will in all likelihood lose this battle and the war will come to and end.

Isn't the react feature wonderful?  (I had just posted yesterday on somebody else's thread how bad the react feature is...)

I'm going to take a hard look at the game turn to see if there's anything I can do.  If not, I may just concede the game.



no, the reason that they reacted is not the reason that they didn´t replenish their Hellcats from the CVEs. If the carriers are in FLIGHT range of the CVEs carrying the Hellcats then they should be replenished. I´m no expert on the replenishment thing though because a) I was never able to get it working and b) I only tried it a couple of times as I don´t like it anyway to see pilots in the mid 40s flying carrier based ac.

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 545
RE: Reverse Mariannas Turkey Shoot - 7/10/2008 3:11:28 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I haven't even run the combat replay yet, because there was one thing I had to know. I opened the turn file to see if my Hellcat squadrons had replenished from the CVE replenishment squadrons. That's when I learned that my carriers had reacted (against all orders and precautions, as usual) and are thus separated from the replenishment CVEs by a hex. No replenishment occurred. So my CVs and CVLs are down 140 Hellcats and have no bombers or torpedo aircaft.

If not for the react feature, my carriers would have fully re-stocked Hellcats, and could have replaced perhas 1/3rd of the attack aircraft. It would have been a much different situation.

So because of the react feature, I will in all likelihood lose this battle and the war will come to and end.

Isn't the react feature wonderful? (I had just posted yesterday on somebody else's thread how bad the react feature is...)

I'm going to take a hard look at the game turn to see if there's anything I can do. If not, I may just concede the game.



no, the reason that they reacted is not the reason that they didn´t replenish their Hellcats from the CVEs. If the carriers are in FLIGHT range of the CVEs carrying the Hellcats then they should be replenished. I´m no expert on the replenishment thing though because a) I was never able to get it working and b) I only tried it a couple of times as I don´t like it anyway to see pilots in the mid 40s flying carrier based ac.


If I remember correctly, the following conditions have to be met:

(1) Replenishment Carriers need to be in Replenishment TF.

(2) Both replenishment group and accepting groups need to be set to accept replacements.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 546
RE: Reverse Mariannas Turkey Shoot - 7/10/2008 3:23:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		All my CVs and all my CVEs are set to "allow replacement" (including the replenishment CVEs).

I have had replenishment work in the past without any difficulty; but in each instance the replenishment CVEs were in the same hex as the CVs and CVLs.

In this game, replenishment did not work.  The only thing that is different is that the replenishment CVEs are separated from the CVs and CVLs by a hex.  Ergo, it appears to me that they must occupy the same hex for replenishment to work.

(in reply to Kereguelen)
Post #: 547
Reinforcing Defeat or Pulling Out Victory? - 7/10/2008 4:13:23 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/6/42
 
The previous posts have summarized the debacle suffered by American carrier-based aircraft, plus my replenishment CVE woes, so I won't cover that ground in detail.  Here's a summary of the day's events:

The Bad and the Ugly:  Allies lost 561 aircraft, Japs about 120; Hellcat squadrons aren't replenished by CVE squadrons; my transports only made two hexes for some reason, and are therefore two hexes west of Ominato, and three west of the invasion target; this will make it harder to reach the target hex and unload.

The Good:  On a much more minor scale, there were a few decent developments.  First, my detached transport convoy reached Kunashuri, the westernmost of the Kuriles, and began unloading Raiders and a Chute battalion.  It appears that this little base is unoccpied and the Marines will shock attack tomorrow.  Their isn't an airfield here, but it is a level one port.  That will give Allies ships a place to retire to and replenish (assuming there are any ships left tomorrow).  Also, recon indicates the target hex - Hakodate - remains lightly held.  SigInt has consistently shown just one unit 2,000 strong at this base at the southern tip of Hokkaido, and that remains the case.  So, it's time to reveal the true name of Operation Crescent Moon....

Operation Blue Planet:  Many months ago, this was the name for the invasion of Hokkaido, and that's the target.  I've gotten good SigInt for months showing that Sapporo is held by 25,000 men, including 7th Division; Hakodate is held by just a small base force; and the two other bases are lightly held.  Recent Recon flights from Tori Shima, plus the scout DD, reconfirm that there is essentially nothing at Hakodate.  I have 9 divisions; five of them prepped for Hakodate (about 55-60%); four prepped for Sapporo; and some smaller units prepped for various other bases, including some of the islands and the peninsula to the north.  A heck of alot of planning went into this invasion.  Last week I ran lengthy tests to confirm that Allied combat ships and transports could reach Hakodate, sailing through the hex containing Ominato, without triggering coastal guns from Ominato, and unloading routinely.  The tests confirmed this (and also that it was possibly to sail around the northern tip of the island with the same results).

So, here's the plan for December 7, 1943:

Hakodate:  As noted above, my transports are three hexes east of Hakodate, and made only two hexes total on the 6th (grrr).  It doesn't appear that it will take a great deal to capture the hex, so I'm going to give it shot.    I'm sending in some units on transports set for full speed, as follows:

TF 1305:  AGC Blue Ridge with an amphibous force HQ (this TF includes a four or five DDs and DEs and is set to "do not unload.")
TF 1233:  Part of 7th Division loaded on APs and LCIs (these are "fast" ships and have the best chance of hitting the beach quickly).
TF 1222:  Part of 7th Division loaded on LSTs (slow ships that may only make two hexes).
TF 1232:  3rd Marines on LSTs
TF 1236:  25th Division (I think on APs)
TF 1238:  24th Division on AKs
TF 1240:  37th Division on AKs
TF 1246:  Two HQ units on AKs
TF 1253:  754th Tank Regiment on AKs
TF 1255:  54th Aviation Regiment on AKs
TF 1013:  Combat TF including BB North Carolina, two CAs, a CL, and DDs (set to bombard).

All of these ships are set "full speed" and "do not retire."

These ships do NOT have air cover.  I am hoping that most Jap bombers will target my carriers, but there will probably still be plenty that are out of range of my carriers but in range of this invasion force, so it will likely take a shellacking.  The hope is that enough troops will land on the 7th to allow me to seize the airbase on December 8.  Then I can transfer in fighters from Tori Shima on the 9th.

A radical plan is in place for the rest of the ships.  The other transports (carrying troops prepped for Sapporo, Ashigara, Wakkanai, etc.) are heading NE, taking position two or three hexes south of Kunashiru.  The other big combat TF will also move NE, but a hex or two further, taking station one hex south of Kunashiru.  The seven CV and one CVE TF will head to a point a hex east of the combat TF.  So I'll have the transport TFs, combat TFs, and carriers in separate hexes, hoping that it might confuse the enemy a bit.

The assumption is that John is sending everything at my carriers and has loaded each airfield to the max.  He can't be sure which way I've headed, but he'll probably guess right.  So I tried to put some distance between may carriers and his biggest airbase at Tokyo.

Radical, yes.  But my thinking is that the most critical fleet is that heading into Hakodate, but since that base is so lightly held, it should be able to land enough troops to permit me to seize the base.  The second most critical fleet is my carriers, so I've tried to position it to be as far from LBA as possible; and the combat TF and other transports will have to be expendable this turn (but usually bombers will bypass those targets in favor of carriers).

I've also changed my carriers from "air combat" TFs to "escort" TFs to prevent reaction.  I've placed all Hellcats on 90% CAP and stood down my bombers.  I believe I have something like 350 Hellcats left.

If tomorrow goes badly, my carriers get chewed up and my invasion force gets mauled.

If tomorrow goes well, the Allies get a substantial force ashore at Hakodate, and enough carriers survive to still have a force.

As I type this, I realize this is a real long shot.  But hey, tomorrow is December 7, 1943.  Surely it's time for fortuen to smile on the Allies?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 548
RE: Reinforcing Defeat or Pulling Out Victory? - 7/10/2008 4:36:56 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		Hi canoerebel,

I cant say I like the tactic of stripping strike craft from CVs to form a fighter death star, but now that this has happened to you you have to deal with it. After all, I agree with one of the other posters that you can do the same thing to him. Especially now that you dont have any strike crafts left...

I'd assume keeping the CV's together with the transports and a CAP level of 90% should give the impeding japanese strike some headache although you'll surely loose some assets. But _IF_ you can slaugther KB's strike craft the way he slaughtered yours it will be a strategic victory as he wont have many chances left to retrain those squads to acceptable experience levels.

I just flew over your postings as I dont have much time at the moment but if I noticed correctly you lost some 100+ fighters, so almost the same number as he did. This weakens your defence, but it also weakens his escort capability and should help you defending your invasion force.

Good luck and keep your head up.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 549
RE: Reinforcing Defeat or Pulling Out Victory? - 7/10/2008 5:24:49 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Hi canoerebel,

I cant say I like the tactic of stripping strike craft from CVs to form a fighter death star, but now that this has happened to you you have to deal with it. After all, I agree with one of the other posters that you can do the same thing to him. Especially now that you dont have any strike crafts left...




to do that he has to have two dozen Marine Hellcat sqadrons within 16 hexes to fly them in and I doubt that there are so many available.

_____________________________


(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 550
Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 6:13:19 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/7/43
 
John sent only the combat replay and combat report; he won't be able to do the turn until late today.  Here's the combat report elements pertaining to the Invasion of Hokkaido.  I think this was a good day for the Allies and went pretty much according to plan.  What do you think?

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/07/43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1013 encounters mine field at Ominato (70,38)

Allied Ships
DMS Zane
DD O'Bannon, Mine hits 1,  on fire

No coastal guns fire on my ships as they sail past Ominato on the way to Hakodate; so my test proved accurate. Allied ships can sail through the strait between Honshu and Hokkaido without getting blow apart by shore guns.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1238 encounters mine field at Ominato (70,38)

Allied Ships
AK Lancaster, Mine hits 1 (That should slow this transport convoy, perhaps preventing it from reaching Hakodate, or at least slowing down troop unloading) 

Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1233 encounters mine field at Hakodate (69,37)

TF 1233 troops unloading over beach at Hakodate, 69,37 

Allied Ships
MSW Skylark

Coastal Guns at Hakodate, 69,37, firing at TF 1233  (This TF is carrying part of 7th Division loaded on APs and LCIs)
264 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
LCI LCI-21, Shell hits 5,  on fire,  heavy damage
MSW Skylark, Shell hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCI LCI-332, Shell hits 4,  on fire
LCI LCI-330
LCI LCI-223, Shell hits 1,  on fire
LCI LCI-222, Shell hits 1,  on fire
LCI LCI-85, Shell hits 1,  on fire
LCI LCI-75, Shell hits 2,  on fire
LCI LCI-22
LSD Ashland, Shell hits 3,  on fire
AP President Hayes

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
1086 casualties reported
Guns lost 7 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1233 troops unloading over beach at Hakodate, 69,37 

Allied Ships
MSW Skylark,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCI LCI-85, Mine hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage

Coastal Guns at Hakodate, 69,37, firing at TF 1233
40 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
LCI LCI-402 

Allied ground losses:
291 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1236 encounters mine field at Hakodate (69,37)

TF 1236 troops unloading over beach at Hakodate, 69,37 (This TF carries 25th Division, I believe on APs) 

Allied Ships
MSW Finch
MSW Heed
DE Carlson
DD Hazelwood

Coastal Guns at Hakodate, 69,37, firing at TF 1236
64 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Hazelwood, Shell hits 1
MSW Finch
AP Heywood, Shell hits 2 

Allied ground losses:
759 casualties reported
Guns lost 2 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1013 encounters mine field at Hakodate (69,37) (This is my combat TF and includes BB North Carolina - a gallant sacrificial lamb)

Allied Ships
DMS Zane
DD Helm
DD McCalla
DD O'Bannon,  on fire 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1305 encounters mine field at Ominato (70,38) (This is the amphibous force HQ loaded on AGC Blue Ridge)

Allied Ships
MSW Bayfield
DD Foote
DD Converse
DD Anthony 

Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Tokyo at 66,43 (Liberators from Iwo Jima score one for the good guys)

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 9

Allied aircraft
PB4Y Liberator x 4
B-24D Liberator x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Katori, Bomb hits 4,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 20000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Matsue at 62,40  (And a second score...)

Allied aircraft
PB4Y Liberator x 3 

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
ML Katashima, Bomb hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 88,51  (BB Oklahoma was on the way home to Midway from near Iwo after taking a torpedo a week or so ago; I figured John would have all carriers up around Hokkaido, so this comes as a surprise).

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 15
D4Y Judy x 26
A6M3a Zero x 2
B6N Jill x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 3 destroyed, 18 damaged
B6N Jill: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 5,  on fire,  heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 88,51

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8
D4Y Judy x 26

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma,  on fire,  heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Hakodate at 69,37  (Sacrificial lamb BB North Carolina at Hakodate draws attention as planned, but it's still painful to watch)

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 12
J2M Jack x 6
A6M3a Zero x 39
G4M2 Betty x 30
P1Y Frances x 17
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 21
Ki-48 Lily x 19
Ki-49 Helen x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 7 destroyed, 16 damaged
P1Y Frances: 6 destroyed, 5 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Trenton
BB North Carolina, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 6,  on fire,  heavy damage
DD O'Bannon,  on fire
CL Marblehead
CLAA Juneau, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
CL Santa Fe
DD Grayson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 74,38 (Replenishment CVEs take a pounding; again, I left my transports and replenishment ships exposed hoping to divert attention from my carriers; it worked, but at a cost)

Japanese aircraft
J2M Jack x 2
D4Y Judy x 26
G4M2 Betty x 5
P1Y Frances x 12
Ki-21 Sally x 7
Ki-48 Lily x 14
Ki-49 Helen x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 1 damaged
G4M2 Betty: 4 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Altamaha, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
CVE Copahee, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 74,39 (Here my CVE air-defense TF, which was grouped with my carriers, seems to have fallen behind and separated from the main carrier fleet; their Hellcats shoot down 50 Japs while losing 27 aircraft; but at least three of these CVEs are now cripples and will no longer provide help).

Japanese aircraft
J2M Jack x 17
G4M2 Betty x 4
P1Y Frances x 12
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 43
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 2
Ki-61 KAIb Tony x 29
Ki-21 Sally x 13
Ki-48 Lily x 11
Ki-49 Helen x 20

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 57

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M Jack: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 16 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIb Tony: 21 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 3 destroyed, 7 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 27 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon, Torpedo hits 1
CVE Suwannee, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
CVE Chenango
CVE Long Island, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
CA Canberra
CVE Nassau, Bomb hits 1,  on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Hakodate at 69,37 (Small strike)

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 3
Ki-49 Helen x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
LST LST-354
LST LST-30, Bomb hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
LST LST-342, Bomb hits 1,  on fire 

Allied ground losses:
93 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Hakodate at 69,37 (larger strike hammers a bunch of AKs)

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 27
B6N Jill x 23
G4M2 Betty x 10
P1Y Frances x 6
Ki-49 Helen x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK American Builder, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Pennsylvanian, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Sidney Hauptmann, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
AK Katrina Luckenbach, Torpedo hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK American, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
AK Wallingford
AK Horace Luckenbach, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Trento
AK Diamond head, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy damage
AK Pacific, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK West Shipper, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
AK Harry Luckenbach
AK American Leader, Bomb hits 1 

Allied ground losses:
457 casualties reported
Guns lost 1 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 73,39 (This CVE is dead)

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 45
B6N Jill x 37

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 6 damaged
B6N Jill: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Prince William, Torpedo hits 5,  on fire,  heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 73,39

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 2
Ki-49 Helen x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
CVE Prince William,  on fire,  heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 73,39

Japanese aircraft
J2M Jack x 11
D4Y Judy x 21
B5N Kate x 15
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 48

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
CVE Prince William,  on fire,  heavy damage 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 75,38 (Here comes the big strike...)

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 208
D4Y Judy x 8
A6M3a Zero x 14
B6N Jill x 48

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 238

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 195 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 14 destroyed
B6N Jill: 32 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 105 destroyed, 28 damaged

Allied Ships
CVL Bataan
CV Franklin, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
BB Mississippi, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire

(This is the only hit scored on a fleet CV; Japs lose 244 fighters; Allies lose 105) 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 75,38 (Smaller strike fizzles; Japs lose 12 fighters and 5 bombers; Allies lose 3 Hellcats)

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 13
Ki-49 Helen x 8

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 63

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 12 destroyed
Ki-49 Helen: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied Ships
CVL San Jacinto 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 75,38 (5 Jills splashed)

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 17

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 62

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N Jill: 5 destroyed, 7 damaged 

Allied Ships
CVL Bataan 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 75,38 (Japs lose 3 Zekes, 2 Jills; Allies lose 3 Hellcats)
 
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3
B6N Jill x 2

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 130

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 3 destroyed
B6N Jill: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 75,38 (Japs lose 10 Zekes, 21 Jills; Allies lose 6 Hellcats)

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 12
B6N Jill x 24

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 128

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 10 destroyed
B6N Jill: 21 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed, 7 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Nevada

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 94,47

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 20
D4Y Judy x 6
A6M3a Zero x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
AGC Appalachian
APD Overton

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 88,51

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Trianglum
AK Charlevoix, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 88,47 (1 Jill goes down)
 
Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N Jill: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Cape George
AK William Sharon, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Silverado
AK Bernardo O'Higgins 

Allied ground losses:
39 casualties reported 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Hakodate at 69,37 (many more hits on AKs)
 
Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 18
P1Y Frances x 5
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 34
Ki-21 Sally x 34
Ki-49 Helen x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Pacific, Bomb hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Lancaster, Bomb hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Horace Luckenbach, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Pennsylvanian, Bomb hits 5,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Corrales, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK West Notus, Bomb hits 1
AK Chatanooga City, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
AK Sidney Hauptmann,  on fire
AK Diamond head, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Jeff Davis, Bomb hits 5,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK San Felipe, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
AK Harry Luckenbach
AK West Shipper, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage 

Allied ground losses:
578 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 87,52 (I think this is the Mini-KB between Midway and Iwo)

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
TK Tide Penn, Bomb hits 1
TK Ardmore, Bomb hits 1
TK Kekoskee, Bomb hits 3,  on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1157 encounters mine field at Etorofu (76,36) (Allies unloading part of a Raider division hoping to find this level 3 port/level 0 airfield unoccupied)

TF 1157 troops unloading over beach at Etorofu, 76,36 

Allied Ships
AK William H. Gray, Mine hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage 

Allied ground losses:
39 casualties reported 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kunashiri (Raiders and Chutes capture this unoccpied level one port/level 0 airfield at the western point of the Kuriles; if I have time, I think I can replenish my depleted Hellcat squadrons here - assuming there's some supplies and assuming you can replenish at a level one port; it's worth thinking about)
 
Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 996 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 50

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied max assault: 62 - adjusted assault: 28

Japanese max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 28 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Kunashiri base !!!

Summary:
 
Japs lose: 7 Judy, 58 Jills, 8 Bettys, 8 Frances, 3 Lily, 7 Helen, 4 Jack, 49 Tony, 1 Tojo, 3 Sally, 208 Zeke, and 14 Zero to a-2-a and flak (I assume many more damaged planes will go down).  That's 368 aircraft (a handful of those were with the Mini-KB down south), plus however many more go down on the way back to their base.  The Allies lost 143 Hellcats.
 
I haven't seen the turn file yet, but it looks to me like enough troops landed at Hakodate to take the base on the 8th; so the Allies could have LBA up and running by the 9th.
 
The Allies took heavy losses to CVEs, will lose BBs North Carolina and Oklahoma, and took what I would consider to be fairly light losses for the transports.
 
I think Day One was a decisive Japanese victory; I think Day Two was an intermediate Allied victory; if Allied losses on Day Three aren't staggering, and if the Allies get Hakodate, can base fighters there, and landed enough troops to provide a stout defense, this could turn into a major Allied victory.  Big ifs, though.
 
I think John is unhappy with the day's results and realizes the immense threat posed by the Allied landings.  So he'll throw everything he has against the invasion force.  Now, what will I do with my CVs?

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 551
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 7:36:48 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		Unfortuantly visions of Gettysburg dance in my head (though somewhat reversed).  Good Luck.  Have been actively reading your AAR and either you or Cuttlefish are my first stop every day.  I love the agressiveness.  Glad to see new things and will continue to hope for the best!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 552
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 7:40:45 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yikes, Gettsyburg!  Whenever people wish me a Happy Fourth of July, I jokingly tell them that we don't celebrate that down here because it's the anniversary of the Confederate defeat at Vicksburg and the withdrawal from Gettysburg.

I know what you mean, though.  This could turn out to be a pefect example of Pickett's Charge.  Have my guys only reached "the high water mark" in the copse of woods, or have they established a colony that will stand and grow, allowing Allied bombers to pulverize Japan?  Smart money is probably on the former, but I think I have a chance.  If my carriers can replenish and if I can get an airfield up and running immediately, I just might be able to pull this out.

(in reply to NormS3)
Post #: 553
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 7:43:36 PM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Well, If you can secure Hakodate swiftly and bring in LBA fighters + bombers than this was an victory. Otherwise... well from my personal invasion of Japan vs Erstad I can say that you can expect much more bombers and fighters attacking your forces in next few days.

I do hope you brought adequate amount of supplies with you. That became very criticical issue in my game.

Good luck!

(in reply to NormS3)
Post #: 554
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 7:43:40 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I think John is unhappy with the day's results and realizes the immense threat posed by the Allied landings.  So he'll throw everything he has against the invasion force.  Now, what will I do with my CVs?[/color]


It could have been much worse. One or two more days like that and his head may explode given the opportunity to destroy the allied fleet.

You could send your carriers to a Russian port and hope his attack does enough collateral damage to bring the Russkis into the war. I wonder if Russian fighters would scramble if you headed to Suchan and he attacked there. It would be gamey to port there but as the hexes are 60 miles you would still be outisde Russian territorial waters at sea.

Are you at a weather boundary? Can you hide in bad weather? The die is cast on the landing. Your transports will just have to man up and take it. He will probably send in surface forces to drive them off with this turn. If you have any prewar BB's send them in, they will soak up some damage. Bring in some PT's if you have them. You need an airfield to bring in P-38's ASAP.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 555
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 7:47:02 PM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I think John is unhappy with the day's results and realizes the immense threat posed by the Allied landings.  So he'll throw everything he has against the invasion force.  Now, what will I do with my CVs?[/color]


It could have been much worse. One or two more days like that and his head may explode given the opportunity to destroy the allied fleet.

You could send your carriers to a Russian port and hope his attack does enough collateral damage to bring the Russkis into the war. I wonder if Russian fighters would scramble if you headed to Suchan and he attacked there. It would be gamey to port there but as the hexes are 60 miles you would still be outisde Russian territorial waters at sea.

Are you at a weather boundary? Can you hide in bad weather? The die is cast on the landing. Your transports will just have to man up and take it. He will probably send in surface forces to drive them off with this turn. If you have any prewar BB's send them in, they will soak up some damage. Bring in some PT's if you have them. You need an airfield to bring in P-38's ASAP.




Well, at least my ships were unable to refuel in Russian ports. (Vladivostok...PBEM vs Erstad) ...so that move would be very risky indeed.

That actually cost me some good ships... you can dumb in supplies etc but you cannot refuel in Russian ports. (If so than we encountered a bug)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 556
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 7:50:24 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		Sorry, been studying for the tour guide exam for Gettysburg. Just seemed like it was a strong hard southern strategy from the beginning, and very exciting to watch!

Keep at it!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 557
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 8:05:54 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, in my game with Miller my CVs went to Vladivostock after the Russians activated.  They could replenish ammunition and aircraft, but wouldn't draw fuel.

CapMandrake is right - John should send all his big combat ships against the landing force.  I do have slow BBs six or eight hexes away and I'll try to put something together - even if it can't reach Hakodate, it will soak up some Japanese air attacks, and that will probably be critical this turn.

If the weather is bad in the far northern zone, some of my ships can cross the line and seek refuge there - they are only about three or four hexes away.  That's something I'll consider when it comes time to execute my moves for the next turn.

The preliminary plan is to keep everything that's at Hokadate there to unload as much as possible.  Unless something REALLY weird happens, the Allies will take this hex tomorrow (12/8).  I can then transfer P-38s from Iwo and Corsairs and Hellcats from Tori Shima.

The ticklish thing is my CVs.  I now have that little level one port at the western end of the Kuriles.  Do I send my CVs there and hope that the next day they can replenish aircraft?  (I would also unload some supplies there, which will be needed to allow replenishment).  Wouldn't that be something?  To restock alot of fighters (and maybe even strike aircraft if supplies are sufficient).  What if I went from having just 200 fighters and essentially zero strike aircraft to perhaps 400 with maybe 200 strike aircraft?  In that event, I think I could hold Hakodate against whatever counter-offensive John launches.  I would have a strong carrier force to help protect the airfield in the short term, and very soon that airfield will bristle with P-38s, Hellcats, Corsairs, and some bombers.  Meanwhile, I have the rest of my troops ready to land.

That's the best case scenario, of course, but there is a possibility it can work out.  If I take Hokkaido, the cost would be worth it no matter how much I lose. 

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 7/10/2008 8:08:03 PM >

(in reply to NormS3)
Post #: 558
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 8:40:13 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The ticklish thing is my CVs.  I now have that little level one port at the western end of the Kuriles.  Do I send my CVs there and hope that the next day they can replenish aircraft?  (I would also unload some supplies there, which will be needed to allow replenishment).  Wouldn't that be something?  To restock alot of fighters (and maybe even strike aircraft if supplies are sufficient).  What if I went from having just 200 fighters and essentially zero strike aircraft to perhaps 400 with maybe 200 strike aircraft?

Those aircraft will be damaged at first, so you will still need a couple of days to repair them. Much better would be to find out what went wrong with your CVE replenishments. Any idea what happened?


_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 559
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/10/2008 8:44:53 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'm not talking about crated aircraft.  This island doesn't have an airfield.  It has a level one port.  Usually, CV aircraft squadrons can "draw" replacements while in port.  I'm assuming I can do so even though this is a level one.  If so, those aircraft will be fully operational.

The problem with the replenishment CVEs was that they got left behind when my CV reacted against orders.  So my CVs were in one hex, the replenishment CVEs in an adjacent hex.  They didn't replenish.

(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 560
Nah, probably not - 7/10/2008 8:47:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thought I had better change the title of these posts as the "Hmm, is this an Allied victory?" title will probably tick off John.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 561
Nah, probably not - 7/10/2008 8:57:25 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If so, those aircraft will be fully operational.

Sorry to disagree, but they won't. They will be damaged.

quote:

The problem with the replenishment CVEs was that they got left behind when my CV reacted against orders.  So my CVs were in one hex, the replenishment CVEs in an adjacent hex.  They didn't replenish.

I'm pretty sure that they don't have to be in the same hex (ctangus mentions 2 hexes as a "critical" distance for CVEs):
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1642539

Edit: changed the title.


< Message edited by VSWG -- 7/10/2008 8:59:01 PM >

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 562
RE: Nah, probably not - 7/10/2008 9:19:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I don't think I realized this. Thanks for the heads up.

As for my replenishment CVEs not working, they have always done so in the past when in the same hex as my CVs. They didn't this time, and the only difference is that they were a hex away, so I figured that was the problem. But I could be wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If so, those aircraft will be fully operational.

Sorry to disagree, but they won't. They will be damaged.

quote:

The problem with the replenishment CVEs was that they got left behind when my CV reacted against orders.  So my CVs were in one hex, the replenishment CVEs in an adjacent hex.  They didn't replenish.

I'm pretty sure that they don't have to be in the same hex (ctangus mentions 2 hexes as a "critical" distance for CVEs):
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1642539

Edit: changed the title.



(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 563
RE: Nah, probably not - 7/10/2008 10:03:13 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		Are you sure they did replenish when in the same hex, or might that have happened with some distance?

This is becoming an increasingly worrying issue, so maybe time to request assistance in the war room before answering the turn?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 564
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/11/2008 7:46:09 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm not talking about crated aircraft.  This island doesn't have an airfield.  It has a level one port.  Usually, CV aircraft squadrons can "draw" replacements while in port.  I'm assuming I can do so even though this is a level one.  If so, those aircraft will be fully operational.

The problem with the replenishment CVEs was that they got left behind when my CV reacted against orders.  So my CVs were in one hex, the replenishment CVEs in an adjacent hex.  They didn't replenish.



If you draw aircraft from a BASE then they are NEVER operational... thank god! This would make this replenishment thing from a (in game terms) ****ty base with no infrastructure at all even worse IMO.

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Post #: 565
RE: Hmm, is this an Allied victory? - 7/11/2008 3:30:37 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/8/42
 
Here's an email message I just sent to John with the December 9 turn file:
 
"Hmm, what to do. The Jap air ambush that stripped me of so many fighters and strike aircraft has put me in a quandary.

"Had I won a carrier battle decisively, I would have stayed place and saw the invasion through.  Had I lost a carrier battle decisvely, I would have had no choice but to stay in place and see the invasion through.

"But in this weird battle I still have my carriers, and it's tempting to try to extract them so that I can live to fight another day.  Yet I have so many assets in place, and clearly Hokkaido is lightly held.  So it's been really tough to figure out what to do.

"The Allied invasion is turning sour, though, and it will take a miracle to emerge from this alive.  I give my odds of success at perhaps 15%."

Battle Scars:  Yesterday's losses were lighter than expected and would be acceptable IF the Allies were to succeed in getting strong bases up and running on Hokkaido and vicinity.  I've lost BBs North Carolina (sacrificed at Hakodate to protect the invasino fleet) and Oklahoma (that Mini-KB picked her off NW of Midway); I've also lost CVEs Altamaha, Copahee, and Prince William.  Several others suffered light to moderate damage.  The hits scored against the transports were pretty light given the number of ships in the area.
 
Two Big Problems:  (1)  The Allies are really running low on Hellcats.  The main carrier fleet has 175 remaining and some of this are "under repair."  The remaining CVEs are a hex or two to the south, and I was able to transport in a high-experience Hellcat squadron from Tori Shima to CVE Copahee.  So the CVEs have perhaps 40 Hellcats.  (2)  Most of my invasion fleet that went to Hakodate didn't unload - it was only three hexes, but some didn't have enough ops points to begin unloading.  About 415 AV came ashore (elements of two Army divisions and some combat engineers) and I think this will be enough to take Hakodate tomorrow, but none of the base force personnel unloaded.  That's a huge problem, because I expect massive numbers of Jap combat ships to arrive in the hex overnight, so that any ships there would have essentially no chances of survival.  IE, I will probably take Hakodate, but I can't really make use of it yet.  The only benefit I'll derive from the taking - if it falls - is that it will prevent John from using it to bring in reinforcements.  They'll have to travel a bit further to Sapporo.

The Big Decision:  So, what do I do?  (1) Gut it out, leave all those transports in place, get as many combat ships there as possible, and hope enough troops come ashore to allow air operations?  The problem with this alternative is that I only have the one combat TF (CAs, CLAAs, and DDs) there and the slow BBs, which I would send, are probably too far away to make it.  So after a great deal of thought, I decided not to follow this course of action; (2) Flee?  I could retire now and possibly get most of my carriers back home where they would live to fight another day.  But that means abandoning all the transports when they are right in the enemy's back yard, and it's clear that this area was lightly defended.  So I scrubbed this.  (3)  Modify my plans while still hoping to protect my carriers?  This is what I've chose.  Here's the plan, from east to west:

1)  I had several "second wave" convoys sailing west from San Fran for quite some time.  They are south of the western Aleutians and very close to that Mini-KB.  I am going to send these forces due north to try to seize two Aleutian islands.  These two only have small airfields at present, but both can be built up pretty large.  John has much larger air bases around these two islands, so I think he's garrisoned those while the two I've selected "should" be lightly garrisoned.  I have an Army division, RCT, two engineer units, and two base forces available for this job.  I am "hoping" that the bad Arctic weather will slow John's defensive air operations, and that my ships can move fast enough to permit success.  If I can take one or both bases in strength, it gives my Hokkaido invasion forces a place to retire to, and it also gives me forward bases for future operations.  So I have high hopes for this cobbled together part of the plan.

2)  What about that Mini-KB?  I think it is probably two small CVs or perhaps CVLs/CVEs.  I have two CVE TFs of two CVEs each, one just to the north, one just to the south, of the Mini-KB.  I've ordered them to rendezvous about where I think the Mini-KB will be.  I don't know if 4 CVEs (with 80 Hellcats and about 32 TBFs) can take on a Mini-KB, but these are acceptable odds.

3)  My troops seized the westernmost of the Kuriles, but it is only a level one port and a 0 airfield.  I landed a small detachment on the bigger island to the east (level three port, 0 airfield) and it is unoccupied too, but my force lost its fighting capability in the landing and can't seize the base.  So I'm detailing one AK with a strong infantry element to head there.  That ship may or may not make it and it will probably take two days.

4)  The non-Hakodate part of my invasion fleet (the transports carrying troops prepped for Sapporo, Ashigara, and Toyahara) are just south of the western tip of the Kuriles, along with my CVs, surviving CVEs, and the replenishment TFs.  The transports will head north and I hope to invade and take Shikuka on Sakhalin Island.  This is a (6) (6) base (though currently a level 4 port/1 airfield) held by just one unit.  This base is 8 hexes distant from my transports and located in the Arctic Zone.  So my transports head due north.  My CVs, CVE, and combat TF will take station a few hexes to the east, almost but not qutie in the Arctic Zone, tomorrow.  Again, I'm placing them the furthest from the main threats, hoping to protect my carriers and intending to save myself the option of ordering them to flee if things continue to deteriorate. 

5) Hakodate:  (a)  My troops will shock attack tomorrow. I "think" they can take the base, or come close fortifications give the small defense force a break; (b) Empty transports (mainly LCIs) will head for the Kuriles); badly damaged transports will remain at Hakodate and hope to unload a little before they get chewed up by Jap combat ships and strike aircraft; (c) I've detached three AKs carrying about 1/3rd of an aviation regiment and ordered it to remain at Hakodate in hopes that I might get some ashore; (d)  The transport carrying the Amphibous Force HQ didn't even make it to Hakodate even though it was just three hexes away, the slowest ship was 16 knots, and the TF was "full speed."  It ended the day at Ominato.  I'll send it toward the Kuriles but it'll be in shark-infested waters.

6)  The Rest of the Hakodate Force:  There are a multitude of undamaged transports plus the combat TF at Hakodate.  I am nearly as sure as I can be that the entire Jap navy (combat ships, anyhow) will arrive here tonight, so these undamaged ships are heading north.  They won't get far, and they will draw a fair share of Jap LBA strike aircraft, but at least they won't be eaten alive by combat ships.  They will head for either Toyahara (also on Sakhalin Island, a (1)/(4) base currently at 1/6), or possibly Shikuka (on Sakhalin) or, if things went incredibly well, which is increasingly unlikley now), they might even go in at Wakkanai on Hokkaido.

In summary, the "best case scenario" now is that the Allies take and hold Hakodate long enough to permit reinforcement once I get some other bases; take and hold one or two bases on Sakhalin Island, have one or two small bases in the Kuriles, and establish one or two bases in the western Aleutians.

What will John do with his CVs this turn?  He probably assumes my carriers will hang around the western Kuriles (and he will be right), so I think they'll take position somewhat to the SW.  Can my remaining Hellcats stave off another round of attacks?  It should be mainly carrier-based strikes now, because most LBA will be out of range (except bombers at Sapporo).

Elsewhere, things are progressing in Australia and Malaya.  I hope I can stave off deveat at Hokkaido so that I can continue to make progress in those regions.

P.S. Yes, this operation really is turning sour. But don't be too hard on me. This is just my second game, and believe me I'm learning lessons here. If things don't go really well tomorrow, I will probably try to extract my carriers and whatever else I can. Arg, I'll be hearing "Banzaii!" for months.





 
 

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 7/11/2008 3:47:52 PM >

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 566
Wild Round! So What Happened? - 7/11/2008 4:12:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		John just sent me this email message:

"Wild Round!  I think you out thought me!  Shouldn't take too long for orders this turn." Unfortunately, he sent me the combat report and combat replay for one of his other games, so I have no idea yet what happened.  Arg!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 567
RE: Wild Round! So What Happened? - 7/11/2008 5:25:57 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This is absolutely crazy!  I have to run, so I can't type much, but here's some highlights of the turn:

1)  No strikes against the American fleet CVs.  A few more CVEs take shots.  That Mini-KB force includes Shokaku and at least two other CVs.  That's something I had never counted on - I sure thought John would combine all carriers.

2)  No Jap combat ships hit Hakodate!  No way, I can't believe it.  Meantime, many more Allied troops unloaded (I issued orders to most transports to leave, but forgot to click "cancel unload" so they continued unloading part of the day).  Much to my surprise (and delight) a complete Aviation Regiment is ashore.  If (BIG BIG BIG IF) I can take Hakodate tomorrow, I'll be able to base a full compliment of aircraft there.  Holy Cow!

3)  John is air transporting units to Hakodate, but they undoubtedly are poorly prepped or not at all.  My shock attack came in at 3:1 and dropped forts from 4 to 1.  I could (SHOULD, big IF) take the base tomorrow.

4)  There is a unit on the road to Hakodate from Sapporo.  There's only one unit there that it could be - 7th Division.  If it arrives at Hakodate (and it probably will overnight), that will prevent me from taking the base.  But that leaves Sapporo totally open (except to air transport).  I have 3rd Marines (prepped for Hakodate) on LSTs just two hexes away!  So I send them in to Sapporo tomorrow along with whatver else I can muster.

5)  The transports heading for Sakhalin Island made good speed.  I will probably head to Shikuku (3 hexes distant) tomorrow.  Possibly I will divert some of the transports toward Sapporo/Wakkanai (since some of these units are prepped for Sapporo).

6)  The transports heading to the Aleutians will begin arriving tomorrow or the next day.

This whole thing is nuts.  There's too much going on, and too much has gone wrong, for the Allies to regain control of the situation.  And yet, there's this chance....

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 568
RE: Wild Round! So What Happened? - 7/11/2008 6:36:33 PM   
sjohnson

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 12/17/2007
Status: offline 		Hi there,

First time posting in your AAR but, as I am sure many others are, I have been following your game for a while.  I like the go for broke strategy and you seem to have caught John off guard in some areas.  Strategically you have surprised him, yet, why Hakodate/Sapporo?  It would be a nice coup-de-main, but, hard to reinforce and hold.

It seems to me that if Sakhalin is poorly guarded then why not reinforce this move, if not throw everything at it as well as the other Kurile islands that look like they may be up for grabs.

This would:
1) secure one flank of your forces (the N/NW) with russian territory
2) give you a good LOC back to the west coast through the aleutians, alaska, and canadian coast - all of which can base airpower for scouting and convoy cover
3)  provide you sufficient bases (you can build up the lvl 0 aflds to lvl 3 which is good enough for fighters and light attack craft) for airpower and heavies in Sakhalin to bomb Japan
4)  provide you with good sub bases in the Japanese home islands with little risk - meaning most of your damaged subs will have a good chance of makiing it to a port; and note the allied sub force builds up quickly in numbers in mid 44 onwards
5)  forces John to honor the threat of additional invasions and disperse airpower, etc. to Northern Japan
6)  allows you to redeploy your carriers back to Iwo/CPac regions and provide a continual threat with multiple areas to strike

Lastly on a strategic side, if he has really pulled as many troops out of China as it appears and your Burma forces continue to advance - as opposed to advancing down malaya and even into Indochina and slogging out against fort lines in malaria terrain - why not use air transport assets and start shifting supply and forces into China for a drive to the coast somewhere - getting lvl 5 airbases within range of Formosa giving you the ability to interdict shipping skirting the coast into south-west Japan.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 569
RE: Wild Round! So What Happened? - 7/11/2008 7:07:34 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I have digested the turn, made my plans for tomorrow, and it should be a fascinating day.  Here's my email to John (in blue letter with additional comments in black):

This is utterly preposterous, and certainly spinning out of control, which means I'm almost certainly on the road to disaster.  But I still think I have a chance:

1)  I suspect that's your 7th Division on the road from Sapporo to Hakodate.  I think it will arrive overnight.  If so, you keep Hakodate; if not, I think I'll get it.  The test runs I did a couple of weeks ago indicated 7th Division could reach Hakodate from Sapporo in two days; so it should arrive there tonight unless John sends 7th back to Sapporo.  My guess is that he continues to Hakodate, the more immediate peril.

2)  But if 7th Division is on the way to Hakodate, that leaves Sapporo pretty naked.  So, you may turn 7th Division around and head back to Sapporo.  Or not.  If you don't, then I may be able to take it.

3)  We're about to find out what happens when amphibous assaults occur in the Arctic in winter.  It won't be good; but the question is whether the targets are defended.  I think even in the worst conditions I could take vacant bases.  My transports are awfully close to both the south and middle bases on Sahkalin Island.  My troops should land in force, despite the Arctic Winter affects.  If the bases are vacant, even a few combat troops will be sufficient.  Here I could have ports and airfields in two days.  I think it's likely, in fact.

4)  What of my carriers, which are sailing around way up at the end of the earth.  They will head even further north, almost to Okha, the Russian base at the north tip of the island.  I have 240 Hellcats now and it was tempting to keep the carriers closer to the main action to provide defense, but John's carriers are due south and on a course to close.  I really want to preserve my carriers to fight again - either here (once they replenish in port) or else somewhere else another day.

5)  And what of your carriers?  Whee do they go?  And your combat ships?  I have no idea what he's going to do. He's certainly got to be most worried about Hakodate, followed by Sapporo; but he's aware that the Sakahlin bases are now in my sights; and Wakkanai could be too. And I have carriers and combat ships all over the place. So how does he prioritize?


One thing is abundantly clear - I had better get an airfield up and running post haste. The sand is fast running out of the hourglass. If I don't get a good base quick - to provide fighter cover, strike capability, and a refuge for my ships, total defeat will soon follow.


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 7/11/2008 7:12:32 PM >

(in reply to sjohnson)
Post #: 570
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