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RE: Adelaide Seige & More Invasions

 
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RE: Adelaide Seige & More Invasions - 2/5/2008 1:30:52 AM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline 		The Perth operation was a long shot - didn't really know how many assets you have spare up in India.

Re the map you put up on post 136. Some of the bases bypassed by John in DEI and Borneo are still Allied. At some point I'd want to mop up those bases (not garrison them) to force the allies to re-invade rather than walk safely ashore come 43/44. Have you noticed any of these bases falling in recent turns?
Pity you don't have enough subs and expendable LCUs to upset his composure by re-occupying one

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 151
Seige of Adelaide Lifted - Sort Of - 2/5/2008 9:00:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/6/42 to 10/10/42
 
Australia:  In a bit of a surprise, 4th Aussie Division drove back four tank regiments 120 miles, including a contested river crossing.  I didn't think this unit was strong enough, but weeks of campaigning apparently wore out the Japs, along with repeated Allied bombing attacks and an ill-advised (I think) shock attack by the tank units against 4th Div. on the 6th.  These defeats reopened the road to Melbourne, which I had feared was permanently closed.  But do I WANT to pull out of Adelaide?  I'm torn - Adelaide has 8 forts and plenty of supplies.  I've compromised by ordering some HQ and base force units to move out toward Melbourne.  I'll debate what to do with the rest of the garrison for a few more days.  (Note, a Jap deliberate attack against Adelaide on the 8th - before the seige lifted - reduced forts to 8 but came off at 0:1 and cost the Japs 2k+ to 1k+ casualties).

The Jap 2nd Division took Devonport, Tasmania, on the 10th.  A stout part of the KB is cruising just to the NE and put up 100+ Zeroes on CAP; a few TiVs and Beauforts sortied out of Melbourne, but were squashed.

A tiny Jap paratroop force took an unoccpied town west of Sydney.  I had a brigade on the road to Melbourne that would have taken care of this force, but the brigade sidestepped the town for some reason.  I've ordered them back in.

The Japs haven't moved south from Rockhampton yet, nor has the Cooktown force moved south.

Australia summary:  John is landing alot of troops all over the place, but I still have hopes for the SE corner of Australia.   

NZ:  Another Mini-KB is patrolling waters NE of Auckland and ravaged an AK convoy and a TK convoy. 

SoPac:  John has several combat patrols south of the Societies tracking miscellaneous isolated transports.  A few have been damaged and sunk by Betties out of the Tongas, but the ship-launched Jakes are ineffectual.  My hope is that these targets tempt John into sending CVs this way.  Also, while many empty ships have been fleeing east and NE, a few scattered AKs with a big base force have been steaming west toward NZ.  So far each of them has managed to make the run unscathed.  Three are now nearing NZ.

CenPac:  The Allies are rolling the dice, and I nearly called it off today.  A big invasion TF is steaming WSW from the general vicinity of Johnston Island toward Wotje/Maloelap/Kwajalein.  They could very well be steaming right into the teeth of the KB.  Since John has taken several bases in SE Australia and has Betties based there, he may have decided that he could spare the KB to head north to deal with the threats I've tried create against Midway.  After debating long and hard, I've decided to proceed.  One reason is that I do have isolated AKs stationed between the target hexes and my invasion and cover TFs.  Hopefully I would get some warning.  I've just about decided to send the invasion in against Wotje, a level 4 airfield and level 1 port.  If things go well, I could make a quick try for Maloelap.  The benefit of this invasion is that it forces John to choose between Australia and the Allied invasion.  I think it gives him two pressing needs whereas until now he's had but one, and that one of his own choosing.  If my invasion gets clobbered, it might be time for me to consider an unconditional surrender.

China:  I think my army is two days from Nanchang.  Average prep is 90+ now.  The Japs have 180k troops and 15 units in Nanchang, so I don't think the Chinese are going to take the city.  I'll give it a good stab or two and then pull back if it looks like a developing quagmire.

(in reply to saj42)
Post #: 152
RE: Seige of Adelaide Lifted - Sort Of - 2/6/2008 12:27:11 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/11/42 and 10/12/42

Australia:  The Japs have moved forward another armored unit - or recycled one of the first four - to create more zone of control problems for the Allies.  During the window of opportunity, two HQ units and some three or four small base forces made their escape and are on the road to Melbourne.  I probably should have extracted the big infantry and armor units also, but just couldn't make myself give up Adelaide.  Another Jap deliberate attack (this on the 11th) reduced forts to 7 and again came off at 0:1 with the Japs losing 1792/108/3 to 955/49.  The Jap AV of 1920 was adjusted to 1008.  The Allied AV of 1349 was adjusted to 1392.

Gamey?  John's use of his armor in this Australia campaign has really bothered me.  First he used the "follow enemy" routine to move his four armor units across vast amounts of terrain in a short period of time to isolate Adelaide; now he's used these weak units to freeze the Allied units in Adelaide.  Is it gamey to use armor in this fashion?  I think so, but perhaps I'm just cranky.

Jap CVs:  Allied recon from Melbourne and other fields has sighted various Jap CVs near Tasmania the past few days including Junyo, Hiyo, Kaga, Akagi, and several CVLs and CVEs.  I know that there is another CV force north of New Zealand.  So hopefully John doesn't have an overwhelming force near Kwajalein, because he's about to have dozens of juicy targets.

CenPac:  Jap recon sighted one of the US picket ships NE of Wotje, but no bombers sorted (Kwajalein and Maloelap both have airfields with aircraft of some sort).  Tomorrow the bulk of the Allied invasion fleets will be stationed just 300 miles from Wotje and Maloelap.  The fun is about to commence for one side or the other.  I'm tempted to roll the dice and try for Kwajalein, but I think I'll focus on Wotje with hopes of following quickly for Maloelap if these bases aren't strongly held.

China:  The Chinese army arrived in Nanchang today.  A shock attack ordered for tomorrow.  Most of my units are 20 disruption, 60 fatigue or thereabouts.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 153
RE: Seige of Adelaide Lifted - Sort Of - 2/6/2008 12:57:34 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		The question about Adelaide is can you afford to have those units isolated and lost?? It may take time for John  to wipe them out completely, but your combat reports show that the forts are going down too fast, IMO. Thus, it will mean the base may fall sooner rather than later and then it will be just time before the units are destroyed. There is no terrain modifier and that hurts you after you lose the base (which will be less than one month, IMO).

The issue of armor units following your retreating units, I feel this one is not gamey, but would be if he was using infantry to do so. Too many European theater games under my belt to feel armor should not be able to exploit combat results.

I hope your Central Pacific operation comes off.  

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 154
RE: Seige of Adelaide Lifted - Sort Of - 2/6/2008 11:38:57 PM   
Lameduck

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		    Hi, if you don't mind advice from someone who's been reading AAR's for a couple of years, but have never posted before, I think you should take a step back and not feel like you need to do something right now to turn things around.  You remind me of the Allied player in the Clash of Steel AAR who, when he started to loose India, launched an invasion of Java to distract the Japanese.  It was a disaster that set the Allies back even further, but the Allies were able to return as you can see in that AAR.

  I know I'm not an expert, but I would say see where you can use your LBA to grind him into dust.  So my question is "How are your airbases in and around Burma?"  Instead of trying something big and flashy, why not set yourself the goal of gaining control of the skies over Burma, then use your LBA to disrupt his army, and then slowing steamroller across Indo-China under the cover of your LBA.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 155
Riding off into the Sunrise - 2/7/2008 3:29:47 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/13/42 to 10/15/42
 
Invasion of Wotje/Malolap:  The US invasion TFs arrived within 60 miles of both Wotje and Malolap before Jap recon picked them up.  John was surprised and I was half right - one of the two islands (Wotje) is lightly held.  Early recon reports indicated both were lightly held, so I divided my forces between the two islands.  John, recognizing that Wotje was the more vulnerable, reacted by sending in two powerful combat TFs to contest the landings.  The first, anchored by BB Heie, got the best of a surface engagement with a TF anchored by BB Mississippi and got in amongst some transports, sinking several.  The second, anchored by BB Kirishimi, inflicted more damage on the Mississippi TF.  These engagements ensured that the Allies landings were sporatic and unsuccessful.  Over at Malolap, the landings were relatively uncontested, but the garrison strong enough that it easily defeated the troops as they came ashore. 

The day prior to the landings, Jap Betties from Kwajalein hit the American carriers, which only put up light CAP and a soft defense.  One wave of 45 Betties got through and finished off CV Wasp.  I ordered the remaining three CVs to withraw towards Johnston Island.  They TFs separated and CV Hornet got picked off on the invasion day.  For reasons I cannot fathom, Hornet didn't even have CAP although she was set at 70%.

So it's fair to say that the invasion is a disaster at the moment, but I'm not giving up.  I've redirected everything to Wotje.  I have enough combat ships to put up a decent fight.  I'll give it another day or two.

Part of the problem has been that I've been squeezing in fast turns between a busy schedule at work - we're proofing our next issue; so I've been sloppy.  I can believe how sickening a game - a simple game! - can make one feel.  It's almost like grief to experience a big defeat. 

Australia:  My Adelaide troops seem to be free of zone of control problems, but for some reason didn't march this turn and reset to defend.  I've issued marching orders again.  The defense of SE Australia actually seems to be going decently.  Sydney and Melbourne are going to be tough fortresses that should hold for a long time, and I think Brisbane can hold against at least one division and that's all John has to the north (to my knowlege) at this point.

China:  The shock attack at Nanchang was a disaster - 8000+ AV Chinese against 7 Jap divisions with 9 forts.  The Japs lost 1902/46/1 to 17,046/348/20.  That showed me all I need to know - Nanchang is held strongly enough that I'm not going to take it.  So I issued orders for my troops to pull back a hex.  Once again, my troops ignored marching orders and reset to defend.  So I'm trying again.  I want to pull them back to Changsha and come up with some new idea.

Situation:  Bleak.


(in reply to Lameduck)
Post #: 156
RE: Riding off into the Sunrise - 2/7/2008 4:44:12 PM   
Jzanes

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 11/18/2004
Status: offline 		I suspect your units aren't moving because your opponent's bombardments are cancelling out your move orders. in order to move you need to set your move order to a base. so to move from adelaide, i'd tell my units to move to melbourne and to move from nanchang i'd tell them to move to changsha. once they move out of the occupied hex you can cancel their move and hold the hex or continue on to the city.

hope this helps.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 157
RE: Riding off into the Sunrise - 2/7/2008 5:15:05 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
...

Situation: Bleak.



Good to see you're still optimistic.

Seriously, your situation is really grim and you are surely behind the historical schedule. On the bright side you have nothing left to loose from now on but everything to win.
I firmly believe that you can turn this game back on track for the allies. I understand you've been hit by strange game behaviour and some real life constraints and it is surely not an easy task, but doable I believe. Keep your spirit up.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 158
RE: Riding off into the Sunrise - 2/7/2008 10:49:50 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		Hang in there.  It's humbling and demoralizing to be licked, but you gain something when you hit bottom and make it back to the surface. I think many on this forum have been there. Take a break, detach.

The art of this game is in the daily process, fullfillment is elusive, victory anticlimactic, surprise and dissapointment is in every turn. I'm not trying to throw up a BS Zen smoke screen here, but the moment we commit to go the distance we don't imagine the worst will happen. 

You now have one of the greatest strategic challenges ahead of you, and nothing less than the free world is at stake.  Regroup, dig in, plan, be patient, learn from your mistakes. Think of all those Essex Class carriers coming! The game mechanics can be demoralizing at times, but it will also affect your opponent in the future. 

I hope your real life situation and time invested will allow you to continue, a lot of folks are enjoying and learning a lot from your AAR (me included).  I think your opponent was a chess master in a former life.  If you can stick it out, I'm rooting for the underdog.



(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 159
Allies Take Wotje - 2/8/2008 5:40:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/16/42
 
Thanks, gents, for the many encouraging words and humor.  Much appreciated.

John, who is a good guy who I have known for years - he and I played deeply into two UV campaigns and now this WitP marathon - offered to give me a mulligan after Hornet failed to put up any CAP.  That was a kind gesture.  I declined on the basis that I've made my bed so I'm gonna lie in it.  Besides, if I come back and whup up on him, I don't want that whuppin' to be tainted by a mulligan.

Marshalls:  Naval clashes once again occurred at Wotje.  A powerful TF led by BB Kirishima and a number of CAs including Suzuya and Mogami, faced three Allied TFs, each led by a BB - Mississippi, South Dakota, and Washington in that order.  The Japs scored more hits, but those landed by the Allies seemed to be big caliber.  Kirishima, Suzuya, and Mogami were left smoking and several DDs heavily damaged.  The Allied BBs got off pretty much scott-free during these naval clashes, but CL St. Louis and about ten DDs were heavily damaged.  The Allied TFs performed adequately, but I was disappointed that the two "fresh" BB TFs didn't wreak havoc on the already bloodied Kirishima TF when their turns came.  The surface combat prevented the Japs from getting in amongst the transports this time.  Jap bombers sortied from Kwajalein, Maloelap, and somewhere far to the SE (Canton?) during the afternoon and put three torps into Mississippi, but she was only lightly damaged.  A number of transports were sunk by aircraft, but it wasn't by any means a bloodbath.  During the afternoon, the auto-shock attack succeeded in taking the island from the Japs with a 7:1 attack.  With most of a base force already ashore and Wotje a level 4 airfield, the Allies transfered in about 150 aircraft - the Wildcat squadrons from the two remaining US CVs (which are far to the east and hopefully out of range of Jap aircraft), two P38 squadrons, a SBD squadron from CVE Long Island, and a big B17 squadron from Canton Island.

The taking of Wotje is potentially a major event in the game.  IF - and I realize it's a big if right now - the Allies can hold this base, it gives them a big headstart when it's time to take the offensive.  By launching this suprise invasion now, the Allies avoided having to try for the first Jap-held base later in the game, when John might have had the entire KB at his disposal, plus the many other units, ships, and aircraft currently tied up in Australia.  I did not relish the prospect of trying to land at Bora Bora, Pago Pago, or Canton Island with the entire Jap military ready and waiting.  Now if I can hold Wotje there's a chance the Allies can simply bypass those islands and work deeper into the heart of Japanese territory.  That's a huge headstart, perhaps giving me 6 months, and I probably would have lost more than the two CVs and one BB (and quite a few other, smaller ships) had I waited until later in the game to get underway.

But holding Wotje is gonna be tough.  I have an MLE about five hexes away.  I hope she can avoid bombers tomorrow.  ML Oglala and about five DMs are also on the way, but two or three days out.  Mining Wotje heavily is a priority.

The Allies will have most of two Marine divisions, a CD unit, a Raider battalion, an EAB, and a big base force on the island.  Getting the island adequately supplied is going to be tough, but another priority.

The other imporant factor in this is that its a big poke into John's belly at a time he was focusing solely on Australia.  Wotje has to worry him.  He'll either have to ignore it (if having quite a few powerful surface combat TFs in the area can be considered ignoring it) or he'll have to divert some of the assets currently in ANZAC.  I think the multitude of Betties came from Australia, for I haven't faced any massed bomber raids against Brisbane in several days.  That may be a small return on the invesement.

Australia:  My Adelaide garrison refused to march again, so I followed the advice given and set them to march to Melbourne rather than to the adjacent hex.  There aren't zone of control issues at the moment, so there's a chance I can extract them.  I still feel pretty good about SE Australia.  Sydney is fine with AV 1400 and 9 forts; Brisbane is adequate with AV 350 and forts9; Melbourne is understaffed with AV 600 and forts 9, but most of the Adelaide force will come here.  Also, there's one more Aussie brigade on the way to Melbourne from the north and it has an open road, so at a minimum, even if the Adelaide force gets cut off again, Melbourne's AV will be well over 700.  How tired will John's troops be after the battles at Adelaide?  The Aussie's get another division in about 3 or 3.5 months.  Can I hold that long?

China:  The Chinese units at Nanchang refused to march for the same reasons as the Adelaide troops, so I've issued orders to pull back to Changsha.  I've got to get these guys out of there.  I'll leave a strong contingent in Changsha, but a sizeable number of these guys are gonna prep for Hanoi and move out quickly.



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/8/2008 5:43:24 PM >

(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 160
RE: Allies Take Wotje - 2/8/2008 6:08:36 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		Grats on the Wotje success. It will surely be a though thing to keep your foot there but it will also be worht the effort as Japan has to answer this advance.
Better of course would be a second AF nearby, like you planned initially. Hopefully you get a chance to expand which would be good once KB steps in for a visit.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 161
RE: Allies Take Wotje - 2/8/2008 6:45:40 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Nice grab, even though it was very expensive! That is an important lodgement, you will lose alot of ships keeping it supplied, but it will be worth it if you can engage in a war of attrition there. If you can get Maloelap and Kwaj seriously damaged, I would go for Mili or Majuro to provide another base. Are they occupied, or no?

Look on the bright side too, you learned a valuable lesson as Allies: Always assume a Lvl 4 airfield within 9 hexes of your ships can launch large escorted Betty Strikes against you. You must have a plan to suppress all Lvl 4 A/F during an invasion, or expect numerous strikes from Bettys. The Betty can be moved anywhere in the Pacific in 2 days, and the Zero in 3-4, so the IJN can react much more quickly with LBA than with KB. I always play Japan, and always keep a reserve of Bettys for this very reason; they are the top weapon to repel an invasion through mid-'43 at least.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 2/8/2008 7:05:37 PM >

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(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 162
Good Day for the Allies - 2/8/2008 8:21:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/17/42
 
Marshalls:  Yet another surface clash, and this one went to the Allies.  The Jap TF was led by CA Aoba, which faces a larger TF flagged by BB Washington.  CL Jintsu and two DDs were set afire.  The sudden transfer of some 150 U.S. aircraft into Wotje probably caught John a little by surprise.  Fighters - high experience F4Fs and low-experience P38s downed many Bettys and Zeros, though one Betty put a single TT into BB Washington, which has less than moderate damage and will try a sprint for Johnston Island.  SBDs sortied, scoring more hits on the damaged Jintsu, and hits on two APs at Kwajalein.  B17s hit Kwaj and added four 500 pounders to BB Kirishima's woes.  She went down.  That's three Jap BBs that have gone down in the past few weeks, which nearly offsets the number of Allied BBs lost in the game.

Australia:  A good day here too, as nearly the entire Adelaide garrision moved a hex, with the remaining two or three units sure things to get out overnight.  I'm pretty sure this is a big blow to John.  He made several comments when he seemed to have the garrision cut off that he had to make sure he kept it that way.  The escape is thanks to 4th Australian Division, which marched hard and far and repeatedly drove back four Jap tank regiments.  Good going, boys!  However, John will pick up alot of supplies in Adelaide.  The KB positioned just north of Tasmania hit the port of Melbourne and damaged many, many ships and subs.  An Aussie division drove a detachment of paratroops and part of a base force out of a little town north of Melbourne and recaptured this base.

China:  The Chinese troops at Nanchang are also on the move and hopefully will vacate the hex in two or three days.  I think I can quickly organize a large force to move on Hanoi, drawing from the Changhsa defenders and some other troops.  I have alot of political points to expend, and I doubt John has a huge force there.  He's got to be weak somewhere.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 163
RE: Good Day for the Allies - 2/9/2008 12:08:59 AM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		I recently learned that moving a HQ unit out and back into a base might help to draw supplies to that base. As Adelaide has low demand due to no LCU's remaining I'd guess that some supplies might then leave the town which would help your defense elsewhere and keeps also the prize low for the enemy. Just an idea, don't know if it's feasible in your situation.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 164
RE: Good Day for the Allies - 2/11/2008 9:48:15 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Hello Canoerebel,  Just to give you some hope.  I too "lost" Australia (and most of India) back in '42 along with six carriers but have still continued to fight on.  It is now April'44 and I have all of the East Coast of Oz back but he still holds North and Western Australia (and most of India).  It is a long slow climb but you can get there.  So fight on !

_____________________________




Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 165
RE: Good Day for the Allies - 2/11/2008 4:43:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/18/42 to 10/21/42

Thanks, Raver.  I read one of your posts from a week or two back in which you described your game.  As I recall, when you recaptured Melbourne you suddenly received all kinds of backlogged reinforcements, including ships.  It's good to know others have been through situations similar to mine.

Marshalls:  For the moment, Wotje is secure.  There is a huge exodus of ships from the island - both damaged transports and combat ships, and undamaged transports that have finished unloading.  Bad weather and good luck have kept Jap bombers from nearby bases from wreaking havoc.  John sent a surface combat TF led by CA Aoba to try to interdict these ships, without luck thus far.  SBDs from CVE Long Island scored one hit on Aoba on the 21st.  John had better pull this TF back, because a US CV will be in range tomorrow.

I'm concerned that Jap CVs are on the way - there has been a marked absence from SE Australia the past few days.  Accordingly, I've ordered the last three big US combat ships (BB South Dakota, a CA, and a CLAA) to head out tonight.  A CL with about ten DDs will remain behind.  An MLE, ML, and several DMs are present.  The mine level is at 316 and should be close to 800 tomorrow.  I'd like to get it up to about 1500 and then get the ML and several of the DMs out of there before the Japanese cavalry shows up.

The Allied garrison of Wotje isn't as strong as I'd like - about 500 AV.  Much of the fighting power of the 1st Marine Division seems to have been lost during the landings - probably in the transports that were sunk by combat ships early in the landing.  In fact, I'd like to remove 1st Division and let it rebuild at Pearl Harbor.  The island currently has about 40k supplies and forts are at one and should rise pretty quickly.  More supplies and reinforcements are on the way, but the road may not be open much longer.

Was this invasion worth it?  If it takes significant heat of Australia for a meaningful amount of time, yes.  If, as now appears, John has diverted a large number of CVs toward Wotje, that removes them from Australia and also opens up those sea lanes in SoPac, allowing some ships to get out of Australia and a few others carrying part of a large base force to make it to NZ.

Australia:  The Japs took an empty Adelaide on the 18th.  The defenders are on the way to Melbourne and Sydney.  So the final stands will begin soon in Australia.  I don't have enough experience to judge the situation here, but I think the Japs are facing a daunting task in taking the big cities of SE Australia (if Manila is a reliable indicator of the time and resources necessary to take an urban hex with defensive AV in excess of, say, 1500).  There is a chance - just a chance, mind you - that the Japs may get bogged down here long enough for the Allied defenses to become too strong.  The arrival of another Aussie division in about 115 days might be the target date.  That's why it was so important, IMHO, to give John another area (Wotje) to worry about, and to force him into a situation where he has mutliple needs for forces.  This prevents him from focusing entirely on Australia.

China:  The retreat from Nanchang is going well.  The retreating units are prepping - most for Changsha, a sizeable number for Hanoi, and a few each for places like Canton and Ichang to at least create some misinformation if John gets good SigInt.  I plan on moving on Hanoi quickly. 

Burma:  I think the Chinese can easily hold the main line in China, so I'm sending more units into Burma.  The Chinese already have an AV of 1500 in Lashio.  Another unit is on the march while yet another will be airlifted from Kunming.

Over the past two days, the Allies have spent 7,000 political points to prepare units for the invasion of Vietnam and the offensive out of Lashio.

Score:  Japs 29,000; Allies 9,000.  If the Japs pick off Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, they should be awfully close to Auto-Victory, but if they don't, the Japs probably won't get there.

(in reply to Raverdave)
Post #: 166
Wotje Backlash - 2/13/2008 1:05:19 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/21/42 to 10/26/42

Marshalls:  Picket subs and recon sightings indicated Jap ships were moving on the Marshalls from the south and east.  Accordingly, the Allies hastened the departure of ships - damaged, empty, you name it - from Wotje for Johnston Island or Pearl Harbor.  Nevertheless, there was alot of traffic in between when the Japs showed up.  First, a powerful CA/CL TF lit into the shipping at Wotje, sinking miscellaneous ships including some DDs, DMs, AKs, and the MLE (why the Japs sailed right through the minefield I do not know - 2000 mines didn't even ellicit the usual "minefield encountered" dialogue.  This was an inauspicious time for a fast transport convoy to arrive, but that's what happened.  Three or four APDs carring an artillery regiment were sunk (ouch).  A few survivors scrambled ashore.  The Allied DD force got in some hits of their own, but this was a one-sided battle.  To the east, a CV force - probably three of them - lit into the "refugees," sinking ML Oglala, a DMS, several transports, and miscellaneous other stuff.  Looking at it from the "glass is half full" perspective, I was fortunate that my two remaining CVs, CVE Long Island, and three US BBs had all just cleared the area.  The Jap CVs are not that far from Johnston and I wish they'd come closer, but that's wishful thinking.

Meanwhile, the situation at Wotje is pretty good considering.  Several fully-loaded AKs took advantage of the confusion and slipped right by the Jap CVs.  Right now, Wotje has a garrison of 525 AV, 2 forts, 2k mines (of questionable value, it seems), and 53k supplies with a good 20k still to be unloaded.  The island also has a base force capable of handling more than 200 aircraft.  I have about 100 fighters and 32 SBDs there at the moment.  It's been costly, but two positives about Wotje:  (1) It will be a tough nut for the Japs to crack; and (2) It has drawn resources that had been committed to Australia and SoPac.

Australia:  Another Jap division from China - 10th Div. - is posted at Brisbane along with a mixed regiment and a bunch of supporting troops.  Allied bombers are hitting these troops.  The defensive AV at Brisbane is 400 with forts 9.  I think that's enough to hold until reinforcements arrive.  I'll probably try to get Brisbane up to about 750 to 1000.  I think that will leave Sydney at about 1500 and Melbourne at 1800.  Allied bombers and fighters are performing well right now, primarily in missions against ground troops.   The Allied air force in Australia is no longer a laughing-stock.  So, does John have enough to finish off Australia?  I wish I knew!

Burma:  Air transport of a Chinese unit from Kunming to Lashio continues.  In about ten days, the Chinese units will leave Lahsio and try to push back the Japanese troops 60 miles south.

China:  The withdrawal from Nanchang to Changsha is going well.  Troops are moving all over the place - intentionally - to hopefully mislead John as to what's going on.  I HOPE he is thinking I'm scrambling to reinforce Changsha when I'm actually sending a good ten or twelve units towards Hanoi.  I think that actual move on Hanoi will take place in about two weeks.

Situation:  I feel better about Australia.  If John takes the continent, he'll have earned it, and at the same time probably earned an auto-victory.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 167
Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 12:35:11 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/27/42 to 11/1/42
 
Australia:  Ships fleeing from Melbourne, Sydney, and Brisbane moved west, south, east...you name it, we tried it.  John has used CV TFs along with LBA at choke points (Tasmania and Perth) to hammer these ships.  It has been painful to watch dozens of ships - mostly merchant vessels - go down under the onslaught.  I've learned something here - this situation wouldn't have occurred if I'd had more experience or if I was brighter - but that won't help in this game.  Oof.  Ugg.  Arg.

In Australia proper, however, I'm still relatively pleased with the situation - or as pleased as one can be seeing an opponent seize most of a continent that the Japs never really touched in real life.  Why am I relatively pleased?  Well, the extraction of the troops from Perth and Alice Springs, then the extraction of the combinations of those troops from Adelaide, gave  me the maximum possible force with which to defend the remnant of the continent held by the Allies.  Secondly, the Allies have prevailed in a few minor actions recently - first, the Jap 4th Mixed Regiment showed up at Newcastle at the same time as two Aussie Divisions.  The Aussie's hammered this regiment in two separate engagements, inflicting 1308/55 to 57/4 on the 28th, and 623/9 to 94/3 on the 31st.  I think that regiment will be a mess for quiet some time. 

The Japs opened the campaign agains the three remaining Aussie strongholds on the 28th with a deliberate attack at Brisbane.  The attack came off at 0:1, didn't touch the forts, and cost the Japs 977/41/3 to 742/32.  The Jap AV is about 950 and the Allied about 400, and both sides have reinforcements on the way.  The Japs currently have a division (10th) and a mixed brigade present.  The Allies have about three or four brigades, with several more and a division on the way.  The Allies should end up fighting this battle with an AV of about 1,000.

The Japs haven't shown up at Melbourne and Sydney yet.  Melbourne has an AV of 2000.  Sydney is about 1100, but if pushed I will pull back some of the troops from Brisbane (since Sydney is easier to defend as it is an urban hex).

Burma:  John seems to have taken notice of the Chinese troops in Lashio, sending repeated (but relatively small) bombing raids against this city.  The air transport of the Chinese unit from Kunming will conclude tomorrow, and these troops will advance.  In a few days we'll know whether the Jap defenses in Burma have any weaknesses.

China:  Troops are on the move to the staging hexes for the move on Hanoi.  John may already suspect what I'm doing, but if not, he'll get a good idea in about a week when all these Chinese troops arrive in that last city to the NW of Hanoi. 

Auto-Victory Watch:  30,781 to 9,385 (John will need 4x the Allied score in 1943 to earn an auto-victory)


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 168
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 2:50:10 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

China: Troops are on the move to the staging hexes for the move on Hanoi. John may already suspect what I'm doing, but if not, he'll get a good idea in about a week when all these Chinese troops arrive in that last city to the NW of Hanoi.


Dan,
You don't have a HR that restricts Chinese Command LCUs from moving outside of China?? I'm asking becasue I briefly took over a PBEM game (Big B's mod) because the previous Allied player was doing the same thing as you are doing (conflict over them not having changed commands). I took the game over in 5/42 mainly to save India from seaborne invasion (which I did), but we ended it as I lost some CVs in the South Pacific (sound familar?? ). The game would have ended up in stalemate mode for some time and AE would be out by then (we hope).





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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 169
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 9:06:49 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		We do have a home rule that Chinese units must pay political points to switch commands before leaving China.  I spent more than 7,000 PP a week or two ago to switch these units to SE Asia command.  John has done the same in pulling Japanese divisions out of China in order to send them to Australia and probably elsewhere.  So far I've found three such Jap divisions (10th, 2nd, 20th) in Australia.  I think there may be others pulling garrison duty elsewhere in the Pacific, because nearly all of the Southern Area Army divisions are confirmed in Australia.

I'm going to try to flood Vietnam.  So far I have about 2500 AV committed to the Hanoi operation, and I'm willing to send another 1500 to 2000 (I still have about 7,000 political points available).  Seizing Hanoi, and then hopefully threatening Hue and Saigon, would be a big help.  Since John has stripped Jap units from China, he's simply got to have a weak point somewhere.  Nanchang wasn't it, so I hope Vietnam is.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 170
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 9:17:53 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Dan, you do realize that he will receive Vietminh troops as soon as you invade Indochina? Has this been figured into your attack calculations?

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fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 171
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 9:26:52 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, I know.  Isn't it two VM divisions?  I'm hoping the combination of surprise and overwhelming force will mean that even with the VM divisions the Japs won't be able to hold Hanoi.  John has pulled so much out of China while focusing on Australia that I think he's got to be weak somewhere, and I want to create some pressure here.  If this works, the pressure will be created.  If it doesn't, I'll pull back.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 172
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 9:38:46 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		IIRC, he gets 4 Vietminh divisions, not 2.

Alfred

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 173
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 9:48:24 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		That's why I am concerned, Dan. If you invade Indochina, you will increase his troops pool. Are you sure that's what you want to do? Is there somewhere else that those troops can do you some good?

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fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 174
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 11:30:23 AM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		He gets 4.

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1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born


(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 175
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 3:44:37 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		How large are those Vietnamese Divisions and where are they placed when their entry is activated by movement of Chinese units into or adjacent to Vietnam?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I want to do this.  The Chinese are going to commit enough troops to (I think) overwhelm the Vietnamese opposition.  If it works on that end, and if the Chinese troops at Lashio are successful, I can create some pressure on John in SE Asia.

But if the VM divisions are 500 AV and all start in Hanoi, then there's no use even trying.  But if they are 250 AV, it's a go.

(in reply to cantona2)
Post #: 176
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 4:40:22 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		Afaik it's actually a random number of them spawning and they start at 1/3 strength. 100-150ish AV.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 177
RE: Don't Try This - 2/15/2008 11:54:05 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		No, you get one for every enemy unit crossing into Vietnam, UP TO FOUR. But with that many troops, sounds like it will be 4. There is no randomness.

They come in at 1/3 strength, 35 exp, maybe 150 AV. Not very strong. It wouldn't prevent me from a focused invasion. It would prevent a raid or other expedition, so if you go, go STRONG.

Seems like John is pretty smart, assume Hanoi is a level-9 fort, and will have that 600 AV, so calculate accordingly.

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(in reply to String)
Post #: 178
RE: Don't Try This - 2/18/2008 10:53:20 PM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

No, you get one for every enemy unit crossing into Vietnam, UP TO FOUR. But with that many troops, sounds like it will be 4. There is no randomness.

They come in at 1/3 strength, 35 exp, maybe 150 AV. Not very strong. It wouldn't prevent me from a focused invasion. It would prevent a raid or other expedition, so if you go, go STRONG.

Seems like John is pretty smart, assume Hanoi is a level-9 fort, and will have that 600 AV, so calculate accordingly.

Well, it's lost in the mists of time for me and you would have to ask my opponent Herbie (Tabpub vs. Herbie), but as I recall when I crossed into Vietnam, he either got none or one VM unit. He was quite put out as I recall. Now, that game was started years ago, and I don't remember what patch we were on at that time and whether or not that might have had something to do with it.
All I can say is plan for the worst-case scenario; if that doesn't occur, you will be that much more ahead of the game, so to speak. Good luck.

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 179
RE: Don't Try This - 2/18/2008 11:37:16 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		11/2/42 to 11/12/42

China:  From recent email comments, John is well-aware that many Chinese units are moving west from Changsha.  Drat.  I'm going to use an F-4 unit to recon Hanoi for several days to see what he has there.  If it looks lightly held, I'll proceed.  If it's strongly held, I'll re-think my plans.  In that event, I most likely will use Dakotas to air-transport some of these units to Lashio.

Burma:  John is moving some of his forces around.  It seems like he's shifted his main defense to the hex south of Lashio from the hex to the SE of Mandalay (the hexes are adjacent to each other, so John can do this easily).  The Chinese are reinforcing Lashio by land and air, and the Brits have four more units on the way to Mandalay.  Pretty soon I should be able to bring overwhelming force against one of these two hexes.  At that point, perhaps the Allies can push the Japs back.

Australia:  John main force from Adelaide was nearing Melbourne when they suddenly pulled back.  My best guess is that John decided that Melbourne posed too stiff an obstacle, so he'll re-route much of his army through Broken Hill toward Brisbane and Sydney.  The Allied bombers are getting in good licks against Jap units all over the place, but once John gets an airbase that puts his fighters within range, the blood-letting will stop.  Three Jap divisions are now at Brisbane - including the 2nd just arrived from Tasmania.  John has at least one other division just to the north where it helped take Townsville.  So he should soon have four divisions at Brisbane.  That's when I think his attacks will commence in earnest.  He'll have 2000 AV vs. 1000 AV and forts 9.  His Rockhampton-based bombers are hitting the Allied units daily.  But at least the clock is ticking - nearly mid-November now.  If John isn't able to conquer Australia, how long can he afford to have so much commmitted there?

CenPac:  Jap bombers and capital ships are terrorizing the Allied garrison at Wotje.  The US CVs and some combat TFs are posted near Johnston Island, hoping that I can entice John to send his CV TF back that way.  Lord knows, though, that he is always way ahead of me (except for the Allies taking Wotje in the first place, and perhaps he didn't really need to worry about that; we'll see).

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 180
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