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RE: The Death of the RAF

 
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RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 1:58:16 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Sorry ignore me I am to used to the opening phases of AE where allied forces especially militia are very low in exp and finding an opportunity to bombard and gain some valuable xp should never be missed.

Supplies are probably more important

Andy


No you're right Andy, bombarding will be interesting to make those PI rgts some exp, but gotta be carefull. Trollelite is a master of the sorrounding and i do not want to advance towards his troops in order to gain some exp just to find me cut off from Clark-Manila trenches....
Soon he'll start to bomb the hell out of Manila...let's see what we can do about it...however remember that all the movements made for strenghtening Manila (the creation of the MAF -Manila air force , now transfered to China) and the subs that have operated from there in the last month were all disturbing elements, in order to force him not to look at the Marshalls....the sacrifices made by the guys at Manila have allowed the "Retribution" operation (the conquest of the Marshalls ) to go extremely well...i haven't lost a single ship and i've made Kwalajein, with the 40,000 men there, completely out of the war


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Post #: 751
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 2:02:55 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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From: italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

I still say go for it (Mariannas that is). If you can get a couple of those bases and put some LBA in there, with the PI still in your hands, he'll be hurtin. And with the leakers in this scenario, even if you lost in a counter attack, I know for sure some B-17's or Lib's would get through the KB Zeros, and a few hits on the carriers would be all you'd need to allow your carriers to come in and clean up his invasion fleet.



First of all i must organize the logistic well for such operation. The first phase (the conquest of Marcus) should not be that difficult. The second possible phase (a coup de main in the Mariannas) woudl be a completely different task. Keep in mind that he can transfer in 1 turn 200 Nells/Betties from Formosa to Saipan (level 4 AF!) and probably 200 zeros, plus more 200 different planes he has at Truk. With only 3 CVs operative and no LBA cover my entire fleet would be at risk even without the KB lurking there...
The only solution would be a run...an extreme run with CV at 30 knots, using the weather...moving fast from Marcus to Saipan in one night and at the first sign of dawn, bomb the hell out of it with every plane i have on the CVs and with some fast CA/CLs...but you'll all understand the risk with such a plan...a cloud on my CVs and ...pufff...it's all gone!

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Post #: 752
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 2:11:08 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Post #: 753
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 2:20:31 AM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Well, I have never played as Allies, but it always seems like no big deal to lose a few CV's early.

You have enough bases in Marshalls that LBA can support each other, so even if Mariannas op goes bad, I would think it doesn't change the sitation. Either way you have to sit and wait for the big reinforcements that the allies get in 43.

But if Mariannas goes well - major change of the war - PI can be supported, HI can be hit - your enemy will whine about 'broken' game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

I still say go for it (Mariannas that is). If you can get a couple of those bases and put some LBA in there, with the PI still in your hands, he'll be hurtin. And with the leakers in this scenario, even if you lost in a counter attack, I know for sure some B-17's or Lib's would get through the KB Zeros, and a few hits on the carriers would be all you'd need to allow your carriers to come in and clean up his invasion fleet.



First of all i must organize the logistic well for such operation. The first phase (the conquest of Marcus) should not be that difficult. The second possible phase (a coup de main in the Mariannas) woudl be a completely different task. Keep in mind that he can transfer in 1 turn 200 Nells/Betties from Formosa to Saipan (level 4 AF!) and probably 200 zeros, plus more 200 different planes he has at Truk. With only 3 CVs operative and no LBA cover my entire fleet would be at risk even without the KB lurking there...
The only solution would be a run...an extreme run with CV at 30 knots, using the weather...moving fast from Marcus to Saipan in one night and at the first sign of dawn, bomb the hell out of it with every plane i have on the CVs and with some fast CA/CLs...but you'll all understand the risk with such a plan...a cloud on my CVs and ...pufff...it's all gone!



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Post #: 754
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 2:28:57 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Well, I have never played as Allies, but it always seems like no big deal to lose a few CV's early.

You have enough bases in Marshalls that LBA can support each other, so even if Mariannas op goes bad, I would think it doesn't change the sitation. Either way you have to sit and wait for the big reinforcements that the allies get in 43.

But if Mariannas goes well - major change of the war - PI can be supported, HI can be hit - your enemy will whine about 'broken' game.





Gotta correct myself. CV Wasp is arriving in 17 days. So i'll have 4 operative CVs.
Well, i tend to play safely with my CVs. I do not count on the respwn rule, also because we have a huge restriction on the respawn in our house rules...so i tend to play as historically accurate as i can. The allies would have never thrown away their CVs is a suicide operation.
BTW, i'm not saying i won't do that. I'm just saying that it's not exatcly easy like a walk in the park....so better to think twice!

It will be a very tough effort to bring all those units from West Coast and Panama first to PH, then to Marcus.
Now it's the 17th of March...let's say...mmmm....with some approx...may, not before.

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Post #: 755
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 2:36:01 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
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From: italy
Status: offline 		NOW AN IMPORTANT QUESTION:
Is there a way, when Karachi falls, to make all the units attached to India Command HQ ,that were supposed to appear in India and that now that India is lost appear in Aden,  and so they cannot be moved from there without changing their HQ again, appear somewhere else?
...hope i was clear enough...otherwise i won't be able to move all those units from Aden even if i take India back cause i'll need thousands of PPs....

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Post #: 756
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 3:49:45 AM   
Jim D Burns


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From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
NOW AN IMPORTANT QUESTION:
Is there a way, when Karachi falls, to make all the units attached to India Command HQ ,that were supposed to appear in India and that now that India is lost appear in Aden,  and so they cannot be moved from there without changing their HQ again, appear somewhere else?
...hope i was clear enough...otherwise i won't be able to move all those units from Aden even if i take India back cause i'll need thousands of PPs....


Hi G. H.,

Are you sure the units appear in Aden once India falls? I think they might just be delayed entry and only appear once you liberate their arrival base. If not, this is a huge oversight by the CHS guys, fixed units should never arrive in a base not connected by land to their parent HQ’s country of origin.

As to the Marianas campaign, be very careful about allowing victory disease to take hold of your operational plans. Even if you take all the islands in the Marianas chain without taking big losses, you simply can’t hold them, the Marshall’s and the Hawaiian Islands all at once right now. The US simply doesn’t have enough land units to defend all that territory yet.

You also don’t really have a large enough air force yet to project enough power to seriously threaten KB in one area of operation, let alone three. You might get lucky and score a few hits on a CV or two, but allied air power is totally unreliable in its ability to project enough force in 1942 to dominate the surrounding seas.

Whatever you take right now, he can take it back until near the end of 42 when you really start getting significant reinforcements. And he will come to take it back, unless he's completely inept when it comes to strategic foresight. Japan simply cannot afford to allow the US to begin 1943 already in full possession of the Marshall Islands, he has to take them back, so plan for a huge fight there very soon.

I think what you’ve gained by this operation is the ability to dictate where Japan will go next after India. You’ve also probably saved Australia with this move, since he’d have probably gone there next had you not taken the Marshalls.

But I think now he must come back to the Marshalls or his game is lost. I’m sure he realizes it and he has probably already started to plan for their re-conquest.

If you’re off running an operation trying to take the Marianas when he shows up, he’ll bag tons of your stuff. If I were you I’d consolidate my hold on the Marshall Islands and spend every second preparing for the counter-attack that will come.

If you had another 3 or 4 divisions then perhaps the Marianas would be worth a try, but you don’t. So even if you take them you’ll never be able to hold them unless Troll fails to come take them back.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 1/13/2008 3:56:00 AM >

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Post #: 757
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 4:03:11 AM   
FeurerKrieg


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Status: offline 		But so what if Troll does take back mariannas? He'll lose planes, ships, men and time in the process - all of which the Jap cannot afford to lose. If GH sits in the Marshalls and waits for all those India divisions to show up, then he has helped buy Japan more time IMO.

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Post #: 758
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 4:35:00 AM   
pat.casey

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

But so what if Troll does take back mariannas? He'll lose planes, ships, men and time in the process - all of which the Jap cannot afford to lose. If GH sits in the Marshalls and waits for all those India divisions to show up, then he has helped buy Japan more time IMO.


Depends what the terms of exchange are. If he trades, say, 2 cruisers, a dozen destroyers, and 20 or so APs for the complete reconquest of the Mariannas complete with the destruction of 3 US divisions and all the associated air power and support units, it sounds like a pretty good exchange to me, and that's assuming the US doesn't commit (and lose) ships to try to defend the Mariannas. That many captured US squads might be an AV right there.

The Mariannas are way closer to Japan than they are to the US, and with forces available in 1942, I think they'd border on indefensible. I've never actually tried it though, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong. If nothing else it'd be an interesting AAR to read :).

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Post #: 759
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 4:40:24 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
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Status: offline 		My understanding is that in CHS they moved the hardcoded Bombay special slot to be Aden so CW forces that arrive at Karachi or as alternate Bombay in stock will now arrive at Karachi or Aden.

I dont know CHS at all so apologies but surely not many reinforcing units arrive attached to India Command most new reinforcements should arrive for SEAC so the issue should not arise ?

And no I am not aware of a way to change it. I don't think changing SEAC/India Command to be subordinate to West COast or China COmmand will place reinforcements there instead.

Dont be to quick to retreat bad terrain is almost as good for a defender as forts I dont know what strength he has in the PI but dig in in bad terrain keep him out of your resource areas every day you garner supplies is important and Clark is piss poor defensive terrain.

p.s. Have you considered spriniting a CV into range of the PI and offloading a strike group a couple of SBD Sqns would cause mayhem with his transports a lot more damage than LB worth the sacrifice of the sqns almost

Perhaps Wasp because she is expendable ? (If she goes down you get a nice new Essex Class)

32 SBD's will make the PI a lot more dangerous for Japanese shipping....


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Post #: 760
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 4:42:10 AM   
Jim D Burns


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From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
But so what if Troll does take back mariannas? He'll lose planes, ships, men and time in the process - all of which the Jap cannot afford to lose. If GH sits in the Marshalls and waits for all those India divisions to show up, then he has helped buy Japan more time IMO.


But it’s not just the Marianas at stake. He will need to strip the Marshalls of a lot of land forces to invade with, thus leaving the backdoor open or weak. Once Japan arrives in theatre in force, there will be no more shuttling of forces between the Marianas and Marshalls, so if he’s engaged in an op at the Marianas when Japan comes back, the Marshalls will be doomed as well.

The US OOB is very small and won’t grow significantly until near the end of 1942. If he loses a division or two he’s exposed himself all the way to the Hawaiian Islands. The US simply cannot afford to lose large combat forces in 1942 on risky ventures.

Heck just taking the Marshalls leaves Hawaii open to attack, but at least he has something to defend there with. If he goes for the Marianas, something somewhere will be totally exposed and undefended.

It’s better to try and defend the Marshalls against counter-attack (and have a chance to perhaps win) than it is to lose everything on a risky plan to try and take the Marianas which can’t be held in the first place even if he takes them.

1943 is when the US will have sufficient forces to seriously consider launching an operation to grab more territory. If he’s managed to hold onto the Marshall’s until then, I guarantee lots of Japanese stuff will have impaled itself on his spears by then.

He’s won a huge advantage here, it does him no good trying to continue west right now as he doesn’t have the power to exploit or consolidate any further gains right now. If he tries to go on the offensive in the face of Japanese assets returning to the area he’ll be outmatched in planes and ships and will get destroyed. Even if he succeeds, he’ll lose everything he sends there and the Marshall’s will be much weaker then.

The Japanese Indian campaign is what allowed this operation to go off without a hitch, but the Indian campaign is rapidly coming to a conclusion. The full force of Japan will be swinging east into the Pacific soon, now is not the time to put half your available on map land OOB aboard ships and send them into enemy controlled waters.

Jim


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Post #: 761
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 5:42:50 AM   
Yakface


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Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		General - just a suggestion.  Defending Clark could seriously shorten your overall defence of the Philippines.  The problem is that supplies follow the troops, so when you evacuate Clark just before it is taken, you will leave behind a substantial amount of supply.  It will take a couple of days after the troops leave for these supplies to be drawn back to Manila, by which time they will be captured with the base.  Even though you will inflict damage to the IJA taking down the forts at Clark, since it is supply and not troops that determines when Manila falls, losing the supplies will be a defeat.

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Post #: 762
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 5:50:14 AM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Well, you are probably right, Jim. I don't know the Allied OOB that well.

Maybe I'm just too cautious as Japan, but after Spring 42, it just seems like I can't approach an Allied base over size 4 because the LBA is just so strong. If I was playing Japan in this game, I would fear a hit on the Mariannas, because if they fell I wouldn't be able to attack Pearl, Marshalls, SOPAC or anywhere else until the mariannas were taken back.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
But so what if Troll does take back mariannas? He'll lose planes, ships, men and time in the process - all of which the Jap cannot afford to lose. If GH sits in the Marshalls and waits for all those India divisions to show up, then he has helped buy Japan more time IMO.


But it’s not just the Marianas at stake. He will need to strip the Marshalls of a lot of land forces to invade with, thus leaving the backdoor open or weak. Once Japan arrives in theatre in force, there will be no more shuttling of forces between the Marianas and Marshalls, so if he’s engaged in an op at the Marianas when Japan comes back, the Marshalls will be doomed as well.

The US OOB is very small and won’t grow significantly until near the end of 1942. If he loses a division or two he’s exposed himself all the way to the Hawaiian Islands. The US simply cannot afford to lose large combat forces in 1942 on risky ventures.

Heck just taking the Marshalls leaves Hawaii open to attack, but at least he has something to defend there with. If he goes for the Marianas, something somewhere will be totally exposed and undefended.

It’s better to try and defend the Marshalls against counter-attack (and have a chance to perhaps win) than it is to lose everything on a risky plan to try and take the Marianas which can’t be held in the first place even if he takes them.

1943 is when the US will have sufficient forces to seriously consider launching an operation to grab more territory. If he’s managed to hold onto the Marshall’s until then, I guarantee lots of Japanese stuff will have impaled itself on his spears by then.

He’s won a huge advantage here, it does him no good trying to continue west right now as he doesn’t have the power to exploit or consolidate any further gains right now. If he tries to go on the offensive in the face of Japanese assets returning to the area he’ll be outmatched in planes and ships and will get destroyed. Even if he succeeds, he’ll lose everything he sends there and the Marshall’s will be much weaker then.

The Japanese Indian campaign is what allowed this operation to go off without a hitch, but the Indian campaign is rapidly coming to a conclusion. The full force of Japan will be swinging east into the Pacific soon, now is not the time to put half your available on map land OOB aboard ships and send them into enemy controlled waters.

Jim




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Post #: 763
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 6:09:43 AM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hi there GH,

I agree with Jim, the Marianas is just too far, too early. Supplying them would prove to be impossible, as he could use the KB LBA from Truk to completely encircle the area. Youre just operating too close to Japan in my opinion.
Marcus Island is a different matter though. You can use it as a sub base to blockade Japan. Just dont leave anything valuable there, as he will likely come back to squash it.

As an aside, have you thought about using the American Pacific fleet to force a major supply convoy through to the Philipines? You have 4 carriers available now (am I correct?), so you can get a CAP of at least 120 Wildcats if you transfer more fighters on board, and unescorted Bettys are unlikely to get through that. If you can get 100000 supply through to Manila, then it will likely never fall, and you will have the war won. You could go commerce raiding for a couple of days, and then get the main fleet back to safety if the KB seems like it is leaving the Indian Ocean.
Good luck whatever you do.

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Post #: 764
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 7:25:21 AM   
dekwik


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Great AR GH. Thanks for the time you've put into this.

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Post #: 765
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 11:31:52 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

My understanding is that in CHS they moved the hardcoded Bombay special slot to be Aden so CW forces that arrive at Karachi or as alternate Bombay in stock will now arrive at Karachi or Aden.

I dont know CHS at all so apologies but surely not many reinforcing units arrive attached to India Command most new reinforcements should arrive for SEAC so the issue should not arise ?

And no I am not aware of a way to change it. I don't think changing SEAC/India Command to be subordinate to West COast or China COmmand will place reinforcements there instead.

Dont be to quick to retreat bad terrain is almost as good for a defender as forts I dont know what strength he has in the PI but dig in in bad terrain keep him out of your resource areas every day you garner supplies is important and Clark is piss poor defensive terrain.

p.s. Have you considered spriniting a CV into range of the PI and offloading a strike group a couple of SBD Sqns would cause mayhem with his transports a lot more damage than LB worth the sacrifice of the sqns almost

Perhaps Wasp because she is expendable ? (If she goes down you get a nice new Essex Class)

32 SBD's will make the PI a lot more dangerous for Japanese shipping....





Wow guys, it seems that this game is becoming very interesting!
Thanks all for the suggestions! Really needed and appreciated!

Andy: it is true that the majority of Brit reinforcements come attached to SEAC. But a lot of units were supposed to spring in India attached to Indian command HQ. Many of the eng units are attached to the latter HQ and they've already started to appear in Aden. For ex. yesterday an Indian Bde that was supposed to spring at Ralpawindi appeared in Aden cause Ralpawindi was already in Japan's hands...
However if there isn't a way to change that...i'll leave with it

For what concerns a mission with my CVs to the PI in order to place there SDBs and Wildcats, it's now too late. At Formosa he has estabilish a strong Air Force, composed of 100 zeros, 200 oscars and 200 navy bombers...too risky for my CVs..and however the skies over Luzon are already a japanese dominion...32 SDBs will be simply destroyed on the ground without a great fighter force to protect the AFs....it's impossible right now, sorry

For what concerns Mariannas.
Gotta say that i'm tempted guys. The Mariannas are very juicy target...but Jim's point cannot be denied: i'm too weak. By the end of April i'll have in the pacific 6 divisions,nothing more. Jim's also right when he says that my defensive strenght is already very stretched (sp?!)...too stretched to properly defend anything else than what i've taken till now. Consider that, with the Marshalls well defended and at least a division at PH, places like Canton Island, Palmyra, Christmas Island, Johnstons, Midway, Noumea, the Fiji have only base forces!! ....mmmmm...no my friend...it's impossible to go further...we have to face the fact that the american strenght is limited and we do not want to be caught by the victory desease....
And then also consider that a full american division worth a lot in terms of VPs...do not wanna give Trollelite a way to get even closer than now to autovictory by letting him get rid of my major land assets in the pacific easily...

At the moment the defences in the Marshalls are the following:

Maloelap (my main base AF 4, port almost 2):
III US CORP HQ
25th US DIV
102nd US RCT
98th US coastal AA rgt
3rd Marine Def Bn.
188th US FA Rgt.
34th US CBT Eng Rgt
1st SeaBees
111st U.S. Base force

Wotje (AF almost 4- port almost 2):
Central PAcific HQ
24th U.S. DIV
153rd US RCT
754th US Tank Bn.
4th Marine Def Bn.
147th U.S. FA Rgt
71st Base force

Jaluit (AF 1 - port 3 - my sub base in the marshalls):
8th NZ Bde
95th U.S. AA rgt
131st US FA rgt
114th Base Force
1 more RCT needed along with a CD unit

Tarawa (AF 3 - port 1)
14th NZ Bde
95th US AA
131st US FA Rgt
114th US Base force
1 more RCT is needed here, along with a CD unit

Eniwetok (AF 2 - port 3)
111st US RCT
161st US RCT
2nd Marine Def Bn
251 US AA rgt
183rd and 198th US FA Rgts.
115th and 113rd U.S. base forces


I'm planning to add more engeneers and more RCTs to these composition but it will take some more time...


< Message edited by Gen.Hoepner -- 1/13/2008 12:34:55 PM >

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Post #: 766
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 12:10:23 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

General - just a suggestion.  Defending Clark could seriously shorten your overall defence of the Philippines.  The problem is that supplies follow the troops, so when you evacuate Clark just before it is taken, you will leave behind a substantial amount of supply.  It will take a couple of days after the troops leave for these supplies to be drawn back to Manila, by which time they will be captured with the base.  Even though you will inflict damage to the IJA taking down the forts at Clark, since it is supply and not troops that determines when Manila falls, losing the supplies will be a defeat.


Thx Yakface. This is a good suggestion. I however won't abbandon Clark untill i see him committing much more than what he has right now. With 600 AVs he cannot hope to dislodge me from Clark. I really think he won't be in a position the threat Clark untill Karachi has fallen to his bloody hands, so for the moment i'll stay there. My 2 HQs however will remain at Manila so not to allow the supplies to be stockpiled at Clark.
If i abbandon Clark right now i'll let him a precious 8 level Af just one hex from Manila...too valuable for Japan! Have to slow him down whereever i can!

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Post #: 767
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 12:17:14 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		The 2nd USMC Div will be moved probably to Eniwatok, while the Americal will stay at PH for the moment.
So in this optic the operation against Marcus Island remains on my scheldue.
As soon as the 32nd US DIV will arrive (30 days) we'll move the Americal to the Marshalls and the 32nd will be moved at PH.
I'm also planning to invade the empty base of Majuro and estabilish there a level 5 AF base for my 4Es. More base forces and aviation rgts are already flowing to the Marshalls...The goal is to have 4 mutual supporting base south of Kwalajein (Jaluit -level 3 AF; Majuro - level 5 AF; Maloelap - level 4 AF; Wotje - level 4 AF)...these base should, supporting each others with tons of fighters and bombers, should be enough to stop any KB...

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Post #: 768
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 12:21:58 PM   
Rapunzel


Posts: 141
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Most interesting AAR! Thanks for sharing with us.

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Post #: 769
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 12:47:18 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		Question about Russia:
Do you think he would go for Russia after Karachi has fallen? or it's too late?...
Should i think of a defensive plan for Russia?...remember that our HRs do not allow any allied naval/air of land unit to enter in Russian territory....



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Post #: 770
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 1:11:52 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Question about Russia:
Do you think he would go for Russia after Karachi has fallen? or it's too late?...
Should i think of a defensive plan for Russia?...remember that our HRs do not allow any allied naval/air of land unit to enter in Russian territory....




The very first thing he needs to do after finishing the indian business is to get rid of PI. After that he can think about going for what you have taken from him. This is the most dangerous part as by then you will be dug in and have significant forces there.

If he aims for autovictory Russia might be an option instead of taking care of the Marianas/Marshals as it will provide enough VP. IIRC you are not playing for autovictory so if this is also true for your opponent I'd guess Russia is safe. He just cannot afford to open another front.



(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 771
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 1:49:13 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		I agree that a russian adventure would be too risky and too costy for him right now. However i do not want to go overconfident there...will be re-reading what i've planned for Russia in the first pages on this thread...

Anyway if he goes for the Marshalls after getting rid of the PI i think it would be too late for him either. It means late 42...the allies are way too strong and dig in by that time. I do not think Trollelite will be risking that much. Much likely he will get rid of Manila and then dig in in the Mariannas and in the Bonis...

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(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 772
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 2:08:17 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		It's true that the Marianas could be an overstrecth - but if the islands are virtually undefended it could be worth to send in a probe in strength in order
to grab what you can and then leave behind only what you can afford to loose. How many base force units does Japan have to spare for these islands in early 42? Almost none..... Even a feint towards the Marianas could be very disrupting for your opponent.
I suspect that Trollelite may bypass Manila and strike towards Marianas/Marshall altogether, suppressing it from the air and then mopping up in late 42/ early 43 when he receive more troops. Autovictory will be impossible without capturing Manila though....

What did you do with the British Navy - did you withdraw it to Aden or Oz? Not seen it in action and I know it could have knocked out a lot of IJN guys when they arrived to bombard Karachi with all of KBs fly guys put on ground attack and CAP!


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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
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(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 773
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 2:14:04 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB



What did you do with the British Navy - did you withdraw it to Aden or Oz? Not seen it in action and I know it could have knocked out a lot of IJN guys when they arrived to bombard Karachi with all of KBs fly guys put on ground attack and CAP!



The RN is at Aden. Trollelite is a very cautious guy. He keeps tons of Emilies at Bombay, spotting every single ship that moves from Aden. I've already tried to move some ships to Karachi, only to get clobbered by his CV/LBAs.... with the Fulmars on them i cannot even think of involving the 2 Brit CVs and the one CVL i have with the KB..simply a suicide.
But as soon as the KB leave the area would be a possibility...maybe... However i do not want to give extra VPs right now to him sending my RN to a kamikaze mission with very few chances of getting any result..i'll need those ships when i'll have to come back to India!

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Post #: 774
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 2:46:33 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Some statement I vaguely remember him making in the general forum makes me think he will invade Russia, but it's only a guess. And of course I don't know if he would do it before or after PI.

I think any move beyond Marcus would be a big mistake. Anything you put in the Marianas, and most likely even on Marcus, will be lost.

You need to use the time now to consolidate and fortify the Marshalls, build up preparation points, get supplies in place, air units, etc. He might just decide to smash the Marshalls before PI and Russia. He might feel that way he can leave a strong defense there while he takes care of business in the interior.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Thanks for the chance to offer it.

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 775
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 3:07:52 PM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I doubt he has forces to commit into Russia unless he either conquers China and finishes off India.

Even than without those units from China he will not seize the Russia mainland. Just not enough troops unless this heavily modified scenario which I believe it is not.

I have my doubts whether he can actually capture Karachi... maybe but it will eat time and time is something he does not have.

GH captured Marshalls quite early and those places were not heavily fortified simply because he does not have enough ground units. I doubt that he has much in Marianas and Marcus either just yet. Either way those are key bases and by lettting allied fortify Marshalls this early on he will be in trouble sooner rather than later.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 776
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 3:54:37 PM   
Elladan

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/18/2005
From: Manchester, UK
Status: offline 		Russia: Can you do anything with Russians at all? I think they're inactive at the moment? If yes there is no point in thinking too much about it.

Marianas: Take Marcus and recon them heavily. Wait and see how Karachi siege goes. Only then there would be enough data to decide whether it's a worthwile endeavour or not.

Marshalls: You have some nice 155mm Field Gun equipped ART units. Have you put them on Eniwetok? I would say it's the most probable target for first Japanese counterinvasion in the area. And they are simply gorgeous when allowed to fire on incoming transports :)

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Post #: 777
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 5:14:35 PM   
Yakface


Posts: 846
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

General - just a suggestion.  Defending Clark could seriously shorten your overall defence of the Philippines.  The problem is that supplies follow the troops, so when you evacuate Clark just before it is taken, you will leave behind a substantial amount of supply.  It will take a couple of days after the troops leave for these supplies to be drawn back to Manila, by which time they will be captured with the base.  Even though you will inflict damage to the IJA taking down the forts at Clark, since it is supply and not troops that determines when Manila falls, losing the supplies will be a defeat.


Thx Yakface. This is a good suggestion. I however won't abbandon Clark untill i see him committing much more than what he has right now. With 600 AVs he cannot hope to dislodge me from Clark. I really think he won't be in a position the threat Clark untill Karachi has fallen to his bloody hands, so for the moment i'll stay there. My 2 HQs however will remain at Manila so not to allow the supplies to be stockpiled at Clark.
If i abbandon Clark right now i'll let him a precious 8 level Af just one hex from Manila...too valuable for Japan! Have to slow him down whereever i can!


Aye - 600AV isn't very scary. Unfortunately the game is borked on the supply thing, bases will always draw 2x the requirement of the LCU's in the hex, so some stock piling is unavoidable, but it should only be a few thousand. The good news is it's being fixed - the bad news is that it is included in AE.

If he's only brought 600AV to the Philippines, he might be vulnerable to a shock attack from your 2000 in a clear hex. Even if it fails he won't be able to take the base in return. Disabled units won't matter as they will recover before he can bring more strength in and actual losses from an attack are small. At the very least you'll build some experience for your units.

< Message edited by Yakface -- 1/13/2008 5:15:25 PM >

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Post #: 778
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 5:32:11 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface
...
Disabled units won't matter as they will recover before he can bring more strength in and actual losses from an attack are small. At the very least you'll build some experience for your units.



But disabled units will eat even more supply to get them back into fighting condition, right? So it's questionable if this would be worthwile as supplies matters most right now.

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 779
RE: The Death of the RAF - 1/13/2008 5:57:04 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		RE defending the central pacific.

IIRC (im in 44) north pacific command has several 'spare' RCTs either on map or arriving. IMO just defend Anchorage and bluff the other bases with engineers etc.The RCT's could then be used on johnson/palmyra etc. or split them so at least 'something' defends these important places. 1/2 an RCT behind lvl 9 forts will require a Div to shift it so he'll have to come 'in force' and you'll not be giving him any free pickings.

just my 2p

If he does take the Aleutians, who cares ? invade Kiska in 44 and leave the rest to rot

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