RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/12/2008 11:16:10 PM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

To keep his KB safe he will have to stay very close to Truk..i'll do the same with my CVs...stayin very close to Eniwetok, in order to use the umbrella of its fighters and bombers...
It will be an interesting campaign...remember that we're looking for attrition here!

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Post #: 1201

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/12/2008 11:29:40 PM

hades1001

Posts: 977
Joined: 12/17/2007
Status: offline

how about BKB? any clue?

And how you gonna to group your 4 CVs ?

< Message edited by hades1001 -- 2/12/2008 11:30:01 PM >

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As swift as wind;
As calm as wood;
Invasion like flames;
Defense like rocks.

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Post #: 1202

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/12/2008 11:33:23 PM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

how about BKB? any clue?

And how you gonna to group your 4 CVs ?

He has kept the Baby KB united with the KB in India...so i've lost track of that one too...

My 4CVs are grouped in single CVTFs.

To ambush me his CVs must be very close to Ponape.....and that would be very very risky!!

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Post #: 1203

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 12:46:25 AM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
The actual status of Russian forces

Given how large his army is, I think your only chance in Russia (assuming he brings his whole China army) is to get everything you can up north into the forest hex 2 hexes north of Borzya. You can't possibly hold unless you can get your units consolidated and all/most of your auto-supply comes in on the north map edge, so you need to defend that at all costs.

So fall back to the north and then fight a delaying action from that forest hex slowly falling back if needed towards your map edge base.

If you can hold out similar to how you'll hold out at Karachi, then the Russian units will upgrade to Corps someday and you can launch a massive counter-attack. If he manages to wipe out even half your forces in a doomed defense of the large bases south of Borzya, you'll simply end up losing all of Russia. Besides if he cuts you off from the north map edge base, you�ll run out of supply eventually anyway.

So I'd give every unit you have move orders as soon as he activates Russia and race as much power north as possible. Even if you step on some of his units along the rail, keep going, don't stop and fight him. Just plot moves through his units if you can and keep moving north. The more power you can consolidate the better chance you have of lasting 2+ years till you get the corps upgrades.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 2/13/2008 12:48:17 AM >

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Post #: 1204

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 12:57:24 AM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/07/42

A bad day...despite the heavy bombings of the last 3 weeks those damned CD guns at Ponape keep on firing!!!
We lost 5 MSWs today at Ponape...and 2 DDs got badly damaged by 88type mines there, while escorting the BBs...
However we pounded the place quite heavily...in two days we'll start the invasion. The first wave will be composed of 1 regiment of 2nd USMC div and the raider Bn...
The BBs will keep on pounding the base, while my bombers will do their Job.
The CVs are ready-

In China we've decided to abbandon Liuchow..so that i can save nearly 2100 AVs...at least... he put a unit at the base E of Liuchow...we'll try to attack tomorrow...gotta slow him down!!!

At Chungking he arrived with a sweep mission...zeros and oscars...we did quite good,but having no supplies at Chungking to fullfill my squadrons with new planes we're damned to doom and annihilation...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Ponape at 73,80

Japanese Ships
SS I-121

Allied Ships
MSW Whippoorwill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1014 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80)

Allied Ships
MSW Whippoorwill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1032 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

...50 GUNS!!?!?!?!?!

40 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
MSW Gale, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Courtenay
MSW Bayfield, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Quatsino, Shell hits 2, on fire
MSW Warnambool, Shell hits 1, on fire
MSW Launceston
MSW Latrobe, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Robin, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Finch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1034 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80)

Allied Ships
DD Schley, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ward, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CA Furutaka
CA Nachi
CA Haguro
CA Myoko
CA Tone

Allied ground losses:
2993 casualties reported
Guns lost 64
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 24
Port hits 5
Port supply hits 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Ponape, at 73,80

Allied Ships
BB Warspite
BB Mississippi
BB New Mexico

Japanese ground losses:
578 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 17
Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Ponape, at 73,80 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

1 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
BB Idaho
BB California
BB Arizona
BB Oklahoma
BB Nevada
BB West Virginia
BB Maryland

Japanese ground losses:
340 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 19
Port hits 5
Port supply hits 5

Good guys!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 38

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 1
P-40B Tomahawk x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 19
I-153c x 2
I-16c x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 11 destroyed
I-153c: 2 destroyed
I-16c: 2 destroyed

Karachi is down to 268,000....another day of heavy air and naval bombardments...my mines never work

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1205

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 12:58:30 AM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
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China...

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1206

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 12:59:23 AM

Gen.Hoepner

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From: italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
The actual status of Russian forces

Given how large his army is, I think your only chance in Russia (assuming he brings his whole China army) is to get everything you can up north into the forest hex 2 hexes north of Borzya. You can't possibly hold unless you can get your units consolidated and all/most of your auto-supply comes in on the north map edge, so you need to defend that at all costs.

So fall back to the north and then fight a delaying action from that forest hex slowly falling back if needed towards your map edge base.

If you can hold out similar to how you'll hold out at Karachi, then the Russian units will upgrade to Corps someday and you can launch a massive counter-attack. If he manages to wipe out even half your forces in a doomed defense of the large bases south of Borzya, you'll simply end up losing all of Russia. Besides if he cuts you off from the north map edge base, you�ll run out of supply eventually anyway.

So I'd give every unit you have move orders as soon as he activates Russia and race as much power north as possible. Even if you step on some of his units along the rail, keep going, don't stop and fight him. Just plot moves through his units if you can and keep moving north. The more power you can consolidate the better chance you have of lasting 2+ years till you get the corps upgrades.

Jim

Ouch Jim...sure we cannot hold both at Borzya and at Vladivostok?? Seems terrible the idea of leaving everything....again

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Post #: 1207

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 1:09:41 AM

Jim D Burns

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Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
Ouch Jim...sure we cannot hold both at Borzya and at Vladivostok?? Seems terrible the idea of leaving everything....again

He's got what, 13,000+ AV (probably a lot more) he can bring from China and then the 8,000+ AV of his garrison added to that. Your supply will run out eventually since he can easily cut the rail line to the north map edge. And you need to last 2 years without the possibility of a fleet coming to the rescue with supplies once in a while like Karachi will enjoy.

You may last 6 month to a year if you hunker down and fight, but in the end you'll die if you don't consolidate because your supplies will run out. He�ll also have enough engineers to rip down level 9 forts with alarming rapidity.

No I think given what you�re going to be facing consolidation is your only hope. And even that�s no guarantee you�ll survive. He�s just going to be massively powerful when he comes, there�s no way of telling what will happen even if you have all 7,000+ AV in one hex.

Jim

Edit: Don�t run away right away with everything. You need to hold key bases like Borzya long enough for the units further south to reach that area of the rail line. So you�ll slowly collapse your units north, adding defenders of rail junctions to the withdrawing forces as the main body reaches them.

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 2/13/2008 1:17:36 AM >

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Post #: 1208

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 1:23:44 AM

ctangus

Posts: 2153
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

quote:

Oh.. There is no time to evacuate some bombers and fighters into North? I guess I should have read the houserules.

Not a house rule. Game hard code.

I hope Houserules aren't hardcoded! ...What I meant was that didn't read whether there were any houserules in place regarding Russia. I sincerely hope there are.

As for the activation. Well, Trollelite must the enter the triggering hex meaning that he cannot launch airstrikes same time so there should be a chance to withdraw some aircraft before he hits the airfields.

I should know since I have invaded Russia with mixed results....

I'm aztez's opponent. We started the game with a willingness to discuss issues as they came up & we negotiated our Russia house rules mid-game. We both compromised some & I think we came up with fair & fun house rules. (BTW - Jari, did you get the last turn I sent?)

Anyway, it's also a CHS game. Here's a few observations that might be of help:

- The Russian air force is fairly decent. And it's large - particularly with fighter strength. The MiG is by far the best fighter, followed by the Yak and LaGG. I've even gotten a lot of kills with the I-16 Type 24. They die quickly, but they seem to take a lot of planes with them.

The I-153 is a piece of junk, but keep at least one squadron in them and some in the pools otherwise you won't be able to keep the upgrade path to P-39Qs.

In our game the Russian air force was tough enough & large enough to stand up against the early Japanese fighters (Oscars & Zeros). However it couldn't stand up to the later army planes - Tojos & Tonys. They were able to put up a fight for a few weeks once they faced the Tojo/Tony combination but I had to eventually pull them out of range. They've been licking their wounds for the last 4-6 weeks now.

- You receive a lot of IL-4s, but there are no squadrons that can upgrade to them. (Scenario bug). I guess they're all needed at Stalingrad...

- That leaves you only with one long-range bomber: the DB-3T. You don't get a lot of them, though. I've conducted a few small raids with them, but mainly have been keeping them on naval attack to discourage bombardment runs against Vladivostok & Suchan. They can carry torpedoes out to 9 hexes.

For that matter they'd be extremely useful in the Pacific. I personally plan to keep them and all other Soviet planes in Russia (don't worry aztez!) I'm not sure how you'd feel about it though.

- While your fighters can put up a decent CAP, your bombers & fighters don't have the range to reach deep into enemy territory. Helens & Tojos can base out of range of the Soviet planes and slowly wear down your airfields. Since air superiority not only includes putting up a good CAP but also closing enemy airfields that puts the Soviets at a disadvantage.

In other words some longer-ranged escorts & bombers would be extremely useful. I can't do that in my game (house rule: USAAF planes can go to Russia only to the degree that I ship in base forces. And I haven't tried that yet.) But boy - just one group of 72 P-38s and a group of 64 B-25s would make a big difference for me.

- Soviet infantry seems to perform well. Their experience is good and mostly they're keeping their morale up. I'm not facing 18,000 AV though!

More like 6500 on the front lines at Vladivostok. Fortunately for me China's still in decent shape.

- Even before the Soviets are active, you can change where they're preparing for. Start building those prep points for Borzya & Vladivostok now!

- At the start of the game I started building forts all over the place in Russia. (A standard first turn move for me.) In hindsight I wish I had concentrated some more on airfield building - particularly at Iman, Khabarovsk & Kuysyshevka - and restricted the fort building to the frontline bases.

Russia's now held for about 6 months. The Japanese now have air superiority, so I'm sure they can eventually wear me down if I don't change that. But for me to regain air superiority I need USAAF planes. For that I need to ship in base forces. To ship in base forces safely I need to establish air superiority. It's an interesting dilemma and an interesting campaign.

For more details if you're interested, I had an AAR going for a while: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1572932 I've been busy, though, so haven't kept it up.

Anyway, good luck!

(in reply to aztez)

Post #: 1209

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 1:32:23 AM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctangus
I'm not facing 18,000 AV though! More like 6500 on the front lines at Vladivostok.

Russia's now held for about 6 months. The Japanese now have air superiority, so I'm sure they can eventually wear me down if I don't change that.

So even against just 6,500 AV, Ctangus thinks he'll eventually lose without outside help. Against the 21,000+ (probably closer to 25,000-30,000) you'll face, I don't see you being able to defend much at all in the south. If you do, you'll lose everything.

Jim

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Post #: 1210

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 3:26:50 AM

Alfred

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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Gen.Hoepner,

I have only one piece of advice regarding your China situation. It is time to reissue to your chinese forces General Cadorna's Order of the Day for 24 October 1917.

Alfred

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Post #: 1211

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 4:02:04 AM

farticus

Posts: 15
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Gen.Hoepner,

I have only one piece of advice regarding your China situation. It is time to reissue to your chinese forces General Cadorna's Order of the Day for 24 October 1917.

Alfred

hehe, one of the better quotes from that day

"... they ordered me and several others to stop the wave of runaways that was flooding the area and sweeping everyone away with them. We blocked them on the roads and stopped those that had their weapons. Those that had no weapons were allowed to continue to not jam things up. But then many of the armed soldiers saw what we were doing and threw away their rifles..."

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Post #: 1212

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 4:15:14 AM

ctangus

Posts: 2153
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctangus
I'm not facing 18,000 AV though! More like 6500 on the front lines at Vladivostok.

Russia's now held for about 6 months. The Japanese now have air superiority, so I'm sure they can eventually wear me down if I don't change that.

So even against just 6,500 AV, Ctangus thinks he'll eventually lose without outside help. Against the 21,000+ (probably closer to 25,000-30,000) you'll face, I don't see you being able to defend much at all in the south. If you do, you'll lose everything.

Jim

Well, I maybe should clarify a little. I perhaps misspoke some. I do think I still have a chance, even without outside help. But it's certainly still undecided right now. I'm certain I'll last several more months at Vladivostok but I'm not at all sure what the ultimate outcome will be. Only outside help would make the result certain.

The General, however, can currently bring in whatever outside help he wants. In my game I'm a little constrained, but that's due to a house rule that I proposed.

But you're right - I'm not facing nearly the ground force the General might be facing. The potential force he's facing on Russia is very scary. In principle I hate the idea of pulling back without a fight, but that might well be the best idea in this game.

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Post #: 1213

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 8:35:37 AM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
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Hi all.
Our house rules prevent me from placing any allied unit on Russian territory, so to say no chances of having american planes defending Russia's skies....

My main concern is about Vladivostok...it has 900,000 supplies and a lot of fuel...first i hate the idea of leaving it all in japan's bloody hands...second i fear the auto-supply in the north won't be enough, alone, to supply the whole russian army once transfered north of Bozrya...

However i'm strongly considering it...leave everything...again...but due to the position of the russian bases, he can attack me using the "interior lines" theory, while i'll be going around circlying..it's a dilemma!

...and what to do with the navy based at Vladivostok??...it will be lost...

...uffffff....

Ok, however i've been ordering to build AFs and forts since the day 1 of the war...so now the infrastructural situation isn't bad in Russia.
Bozrya has AF 8 and forts 9...Bozrya in Jim's plan is the key base. If it falls before the southern army can get safely up in the north, we're doomed.

I made up my mind and accepted the idea...i'll slowly rebase my planes in the north...and start changing the prep points...Josif Stalin won't be delighted about my decision

At the same time we're sending men and supplies to the Aleutinas...that theatre will be activated once the soviets are attacked!! So better be ready!

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Post #: 1214

RE: China is lost. Changsha falls - 2/13/2008 9:04:50 AM

Jim D Burns

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Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
My main concern is about Vladivostok...it has 900,000 supplies and a lot of fuel...

If you move fast enough, the supply should get sucked to the next base on the rail line before Japan can enter Vladivostok. Then the next base and so on. The key is to get the bases totally empty, so don't leave any rear guards behind. The fort units may prevent all of the supply from getting pulled though, but hopefully most of it will follow your army.

It�s all up to the speed bump forts along the border. If they can slow down Japan long enough for you to reach the first base while Vladivostok is still unoccupied by Japan, large amounts of supply should move.

Jim

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Post #: 1215

DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 6:38:18 PM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

...mmmm...well guys...what can i say?...we've lost the initiative also in the pacific for another year (at least).
My mistake, his skills...really don't know...probably both of them...
Today everything went wrong.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/09/42

The day begins with a torpedo in BB Missisipi near Ponape....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Ponape at 73,80

Japanese Ships
SS RO-65

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi, Torpedo hits 1
DD Chew

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1034 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80)

Then the Warspite gets a mine...another damned mine

Allied Ships
BB Warspite, Mine hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ponape at 73,80

Then his SFTF engage my BBs...long lance torpedo attack and ...voil�! The Warspite is sunk

..the chew got chewed too and she's now on the bottom of the ocean...

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Walrus: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 3
CL Yura
CL Kinu, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CL Abukuma, Shell hits 2
CL Kuma, Shell hits 1
CL Tama, Shell hits 2
DD Yugumo
DD Hayashio
DD Isokaze, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Hamakaze
DD Nowaki
DD Arashi
DD Hagikaze
DD Tanikaze, Shell hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 1
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 4
BB Warspite, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 6, and is sunk
DD Allen
DD Chew, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1157 encounters mine field at Truk (66,78)

Then my scouting sub got another mine...will sink later

Allied Ships

SS S-43, Mine hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When the day comes my CVs react to his KB come up from nowhere (i had 32 houstons on 15 hexes naval search...24 conrados...saw nothing yesterday)...

My B-17s attacked Ponape and his LRCAP from the KB takes off...well, i said, we damaged 35 zeros! Good result!! The KB's CAP should be less effective...

The KB is covered by clouds in the morning...but none of my 200 bombers on naval attack at Eniwetok decide to take off, nor the SDBs on my CVs (range 4)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 73,80

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 70
F-4 Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 35 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 50 damaged

Port supply hits 3

In the afternoon my CVs react for the second time in the day

and got away from Eniwetok's cover...his CVs do not react...note that all my CVTFs had 0 ZERO react range....

However a lightly escort bombing mission came from Truk against my Fast Transport TF...our guys do a good job
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 75,80

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
G3M Nell x 12
G4M1 Betty x 13

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 4
P-40B Tomahawk x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 8 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Adelaide
DMS Wasmuth
DMS Long
CA Australia
CL Perth
APD McKean

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 75,80

Again...this time the leaker passes through...

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 4
P-40B Tomahawk x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied Ships
MSW Courtenay, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage*sinks*

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 75,80 *2 hexes east of Ponape*

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
G4M1 Betty x 12

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 4
P-40B Tomahawk x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AP Mapia, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AP J. Franklin Bell, Torpedo hits 1
DD Anderson

Allied ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

My CAP becomes less effective...

THEN, WHAT???? My CVs launch a strike...but, despite i had put 60% CAP, only 24 wildcats escort the SDBs....result?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 72,79

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 23
A6M2 Zero x 200
A6M3 Zero x 23

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 24
SBD-3 Dauntless x 104

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 6 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed, 11 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 24 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 83 destroyed

A MASSACRE....NOt a single leaker...nothing, nada, niet....

And only 3 zeros are downed...incredible!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 72,79

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 11
A6M2 Zero x 185
A6M3 Zero x 23

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9
SBD-3 Dauntless x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 9 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 13 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 72,81

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 30

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 7
B-26B Marauder x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Kinu, on fire, heavy damage

This is the best that my 200 higly experienced bombers can do??? (with Radars and air HQ at Eniwetok)????...you better change your job guys....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 72,81

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15

Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 11
B-25C Mitchell x 13
B-26B Marauder x 24
P-38F Lightning x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
A-20B Boston: 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 2 damaged
P-38F Lightning: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Kinu, Bomb hits 17, on fire, heavy damage

Idiots...this CL was doomed anyway...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And then arrives the storm....my CVs aren't united anymore...due to the damned double reaction....my CAP is horrible

Day Air attack on TF at 74,79

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 21

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 18
F4F-4 Wildcat x 50
P-38F Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 16 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 74,79

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 23

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 18
F4F-4 Wildcat x 50
P-38F Lightning x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 23 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 74,79

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 103 *100 zeros on escorts????...what the ****...he had 250 fighters on CAP over the KB...how can he have all those escorts???*
D3A2 Val x 29
B5N2 Kate x 146

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 18
F4F-4 Wildcat x 50
P-38F Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 49 destroyed, 5 damaged
D3A2 Val: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 14 destroyed, 82 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 24 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-38F Lightning: 17 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
CV Yorktown, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CA Chicago
CL Helena, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans
CL St. Louis, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Porter

Well....2 CVs sunk and a CL....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 74,79

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 35

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 7
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, on fire, heavy damage
CV Lexington, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In China he paradropped some units...those units were repulsed to the woods, thus closing more doors for my pocketed army....

...I'M SO F*****ING UNLUCKY!!!

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Ground combat at Tuyun

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 256 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 13

Defending force 5207 troops, 33 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 171

Japanese max assault: 20 - adjusted assault: 0

Allied max defense: 174 - adjusted defense: 371

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 4)

Japanese ground losses:
67 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kweilin

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 105 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Defending force 71979 troops, 313 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1835

Japanese max assault: 6 - adjusted assault: 0

Allied max defense: 1805 - adjusted defense: 1105

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

So...today i've lost 2 CVs, 1 BB, 1 CL and got damaged some more units.....the Ponape invasion is stopped and tomorrow we gotta try to save what remains of our fleet....

Well done Hoepner...well done....

Attachment (1)

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[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)

Post #: 1216

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 6:43:49 PM

Yava

Posts: 2129
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Poland/Kolobrzeg
Status: offline

A slaughter...

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Art by Dixie.

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Post #: 1217

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 6:44:27 PM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

No, i thought about it...
This success of his was caused by his skills more than by my mistakes.
I could have been predictable...but his timing was simply perfect...plus the CVs reaction scrumbled my plans...his KB didn't react, while mines got dispersed in 3 different TFs in 3 different positions...ufffffffff

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Post #: 1218

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 6:55:09 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

This game very clearly presents 2 very different playing styles - this usually has repercussions, one way or another!

Long and meticulous preparations are well and good, but sometimes its best to just
snap out and grab what you want without displaying an unduly amount of hardware first.
If he only had a Base Force at Ponape I'm not sure you really needed all these preps?

It's quite typical for US CV's to behave like this in 42, think it's a curse

In 44-45 it can be quite different, I know

Well, the cv's will come back soon enough and at least you know were the KB is.
Time to shut down his bombardments at Karachi?

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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)

Post #: 1219

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 7:10:00 PM

hades1001

Posts: 977
Joined: 12/17/2007
Status: offline

This is exactly what I predicted, It's too early to start a CV combat against the Combined fleet, with 4CV against 6, I also believe his BKB is some where around. You land base bombers won't help much in the combat.

Good news is, you just lost 2cv, not too bad. you still got 3 US carriers and several British carriers in late 42 and make some troubles for him.

One thing I seriouly suggest: keep all your CVs together. After the brit cv get seafires, train them. And your condition will get much better.

_____________________________

As swift as wind;
As calm as wood;
Invasion like flames;
Defense like rocks.

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1220

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 7:16:45 PM

hades1001

Posts: 977
Joined: 12/17/2007
Status: offline

And look at the AAR again, I believe he put all his CV/CVL together, that's where the extra 100 Zeros comes from.

_____________________________

As swift as wind;
As calm as wood;
Invasion like flames;
Defense like rocks.

(in reply to hades1001)

Post #: 1221

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 7:19:59 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

How can there be 311 carrier based Zeroes? It�s May 42

< Message edited by castor troy -- 2/13/2008 7:20:40 PM >

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Post #: 1222

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 7:26:27 PM

TenChiMato

Posts: 52
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 74,79

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 103 *100 zeros on escorts????...what the ****...he had 250 fighters on CAP over the KB...how can he have all those escorts???*
D3A2 Val x 29
B5N2 Kate x 146

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 18
F4F-4 Wildcat x 50
P-38F Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 49 destroyed, 5 damaged
D3A2 Val: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 14 destroyed, 82 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 24 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-38F Lightning: 17 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
CV Yorktown, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CA Chicago
CL Helena, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans
CL St. Louis, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Porter

more than likely max LRCAP from every single fighter Daitai he had at Truk which explained why you didnt face scores of Betttys and Nells on naval attack during this turn. No escort for them so he most certainly kept them grounded or on naval search only to ensure KB max effectiveness; perhaps some CVE with fighter units on max CAP as well though I doubt that, not enough speed and some were damaged in India.

Id bet that he will reverse this tactic on next turn: retreat the KB close to Truk to replenish his not so depleted squadrons and let all his massively escorted LBs finish your TFs on next turn. No sense in risking a lucky hit on his CV by one your army bombers when his land based planes can do the job.

< Message edited by TenChiMato -- 2/13/2008 7:29:37 PM >

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)

Post #: 1223

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 7:29:45 PM

hades1001

Posts: 977
Joined: 12/17/2007
Status: offline

It's land based zeros. Carrier capable.

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As swift as wind;
As calm as wood;
Invasion like flames;
Defense like rocks.

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Post #: 1224

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 7:45:15 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

...mmmm...well guys...what can i say?...we've lost the initiative also in the pacific for another year (at least).
My mistake, his skills...really don't know...probably both of them...
Today everything went wrong.

What can I say Gen.? Well best feelings to you and your boys - but as I said earlier you really didn't need those CVs for this ops, I still don't understand why you wanted to engage them so much. You know about the usual early war allied SNAFU...

(in reply to hades1001)

Post #: 1225

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 8:28:54 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

I am the master of under preparation but it feels like you over prepared this one and it should have been an FT or Barge led invasion by an RCT or two.

Sorry but it was kind of predictable that you were coming in and you even suspected KB was waiting

I did the same against Pauk and also suffered when my carriers reacted - bad luck killed you but IMO this was the time to be opportunisitc and try and grab it via a raid...

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 1226

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 8:30:04 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

p.s. lack of co ordination penalty applies above 150 in 42 for the allies so 2 carriers per TF gives a 30% chance for each TF to be unco ordianted.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1227

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 8:50:06 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

it should have been an FT or Barge led invasion by an RCT or two.

sure thing, I share that view...

I don't understand the situation though, GH told us that "My 4CVs are grouped in single CVTFs."

Why did they end up getting grouped together...?

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 2/13/2008 8:51:34 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1228

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 9:10:33 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

Look at how few Vals flew. Looks like he transfered off most of his Vals and replaced them with Zeros.

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Post #: 1229

RE: DISASTER AT PONAPE - 2/13/2008 9:14:35 PM

aztez

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Look at how few Vals flew. Looks like he transfered off most of his Vals and replaced them with Zeros.

Ditto. I think this assumptions is most likely to be correct. Those extra fighters just were not coming from landbased airfields.

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 1230

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