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RE: Ant Units - 11/10/2007 1:31:20 AM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
As matters stand, players have every reason to engage in utterly ahistorical behavior and to completely ignore the actual function of any small specialty units they might have.


In a few scenarios I have tried to adjust for such behavior by editing out the AP/AT value of bridge engineers and AA equipment. Of course this does not prohibit using these units as ant attack or blocking units, but in a scenario where bridge and AA units are needed to perform their primary duties, the motive to use them as ant attack units is reduced.

Haven’t tried it, but I would think that the same could be done with AT units, MP units and as a way of distinguishing between logistic engineer and combat engineer units.

Think the real trick is to design the scenario so that these units have real value when performing their primary mission rather than just being another form of infantry.

Regards, RhinoBones



That'll help: I remember one scenario with motorized but otherwise utterly useless corps HQ's: light cavalry!

However, for purposes of just braining supply, it's just too easy to make ants. Take Seelowe: battalion/regiment level, with stacks of up to about half a division fairly common. Now, there is just no reasonable design device that will make it an unattractive option for the Brit to a battered, subdivided remnant of a battalion of territorials and have that company drain the supply and readiness from half a division of fresh German infantry. Moreover, the mental picture it conjures up is totally surreal. One hundred British heroes, unfed, unarmed, and unshaven, seriously weakening a force of seven thousand fully equipped, rested Germans.

The ant unit problem, for combat purposes, is not a design issue. It's a programming issue.


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Post #: 61
RE: Ant Units - 11/10/2007 3:47:39 AM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
Take Seelowe . . .


AFAIK Seelowe is not a public domain scenario. Best that you use an example that everyone can understand.

Regards, RhinoBones

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Post #: 62
RE: The Ant Unit Problem - 11/10/2007 7:27:58 AM   
a white rabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..shell weight, set in the bioed is the factor that affects target supply, and as a consequence readiness. What the exact formula is i've no idea, but very high numbers , in the middle and up hundreds, have major reduction effects on supply, the smaller shells have a miniscule or not observable effect..


Only if the target includes artillery that fires counterbattery.


..sorry no, or rather no in ACOW, pure ranged fire with zero AP/AT but high shell weight wacks the target unit's supply level, you obviously missed my BioEd trials for ancients leader effects.


No. I was a participant in them, and you were definitely using an "infantry gun" icon target - triggering counterbattery fire - which accounted for the supply drop.


..err noooo, i used an inf gun at start because it's a ranged artillery piece and it was used to test fire, not as a target. Targets were tried across a range of units. I also used an inf gun unit to test different ranges and kill rates, mostly on irreg units, again because it's a simple tile without HQ functions. HQ units came after i played with the BioEd settings and went to extremes 0AT/0AP/1000 shell weight in an attempt to get the Napoleonic kill rate correct and had run out of AP/AT options..

..as you were there, you've obviously forgotten Colin not liking the 'super-shout' being as it only affected the supply (and by linking in the program, the readiness), and it would appear so has Colin. ..


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Post #: 63
RE: The Ant Unit Problem - 11/10/2007 6:23:41 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..err noooo, i used an inf gun at start because it's a ranged artillery piece and it was used to test fire, not as a target. Targets were tried across a range of units. I also used an inf gun unit to test different ranges and kill rates, mostly on irreg units, again because it's a simple tile without HQ functions. HQ units came after i played with the BioEd settings and went to extremes 0AT/0AP/1000 shell weight in an attempt to get the Napoleonic kill rate correct and had run out of AP/AT options..

..as you were there, you've obviously forgotten Colin not liking the 'super-shout' being as it only affected the supply (and by linking in the program, the readiness), and it would appear so has Colin. ..


More Cold Fusion, like your AAA at bridges/airfield stuff. (Results that can only be reproduced in Richard's lab).

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Post #: 64
RE: Ant Units - 11/11/2007 10:49:08 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
Take Seelowe . . .


AFAIK Seelowe is not a public domain scenario. Best that you use an example that everyone can understand.

Regards, RhinoBones


Yeah -- but it's the one scenario I'm intimately familiar with. So it's where all my examples come from. And the reference you're referring to was certainly easy enough to understand.

< Message edited by ColinWright -- 11/11/2007 10:52:19 PM >

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Post #: 65
RE: The Ant Unit Problem - 11/12/2007 3:55:53 AM   
a white rabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..err noooo, i used an inf gun at start because it's a ranged artillery piece and it was used to test fire, not as a target. Targets were tried across a range of units. I also used an inf gun unit to test different ranges and kill rates, mostly on irreg units, again because it's a simple tile without HQ functions. HQ units came after i played with the BioEd settings and went to extremes 0AT/0AP/1000 shell weight in an attempt to get the Napoleonic kill rate correct and had run out of AP/AT options..

..as you were there, you've obviously forgotten Colin not liking the 'super-shout' being as it only affected the supply (and by linking in the program, the readiness), and it would appear so has Colin. ..


More Cold Fusion, like your AAA at bridges/airfield stuff. (Results that can only be reproduced in Richard's lab).


..again no, the units i was attacking with persistantly took 0%, i was just attacking with the wrong units..

..but i suppose you tried the high shell-weight artillery ? if so and it didn't work then can i see your exp-scen please ?


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Post #: 66
RE: The Ant Unit Problem - 4/20/2009 8:02:30 AM   
alexzhz


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Status: offline 		Can this problem be solved in the coming patch?

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Post #: 67
RE: The Ant Unit Problem - 4/20/2009 10:51:44 AM   
Telumar


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< Message edited by Telumar -- 4/20/2009 10:52:09 AM >

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Post #: 68
RE: Ant Units - 9/13/2009 10:24:05 AM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline 		..i agree, ant units are a real headache...

..now if anyone has any ideas how to stop them eating my direct drilled onion seed just as it starts to swell, say at 3 days......

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Post #: 69
RE: Ant Units - 9/14/2009 8:58:25 AM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..i agree, ant units are a real headache...

..now if anyone has any ideas how to stop them eating my direct drilled onion seed just as it starts to swell, say at 3 days......


Pesticides. Powerful, inorganic pesticides, manufactured by dubious firms based in China.

I'll probably change my mind, but it's good to see you back.

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Post #: 70
RE: Ant Units - 9/14/2009 5:05:27 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..i agree, ant units are a real headache...

..now if anyone has any ideas how to stop them eating my direct drilled onion seed just as it starts to swell, say at 3 days......


Pesticides. Powerful, inorganic pesticides, manufactured by dubious firms based in China.


You might want to lay off the human waste fertilizer, too.

quote:

I'll probably change my mind, but it's good to see you back.


Rumors of his death were highly exaggerated.

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Post #: 71
RE: Ant Units - 9/14/2009 11:50:12 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


Rumors of his death were highly exaggerated.


Only the good die young. It's reassuring to realize that.


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Post #: 72
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