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What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 3:57:04 AM

barbarossa2

Posts: 915
Joined: 1/17/2006
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Hey there. I am just wondering about how many people would play this Napoleonic game if it was ONLY play by email. That is, you could not play against the AI. Only against a player by email. I am just curious.

Please note... "Empires in Arms" is NOT only play by email. It does have everything. I am just wondering what if it were only play by email. How many would still have to have this? I am sure after the wait, we will all be rewarded with an excellent game system, including great AI.

However...

QUESTION 1: That is... would you buy a game like this (something you really wanted) without AI, yes or no?

QUESTION 2: And what if it cost half as much without AI? Would you buy in this case, and would this change your decision? Yes or no?

QUESTION 3: Now, what if you had to email your turn to another location where the AI was processed and a file were returned to you? Thoughts?

QUESTION 4: What if Matrix were the only game company allowed to make "Empires in Arms", and you knew you would never be able to play Empires in Arms in any other way than PBEM? Thoughts?

Yes. This is market research. But not by Matrix. And it has nothing to do with "Empires in Arms" or even Napoleonics.

< Message edited by barbarossa2 -- 11/8/2007 8:54:04 PM >

_____________________________

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori*.
-Wilfred Owen
*It is sweet and right to die for your country.

Post #: 1

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 6:23:16 AM

cdbeck

Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
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Is it kosher to do market research in a specific game forum, not in the general chat?

But anyway:

1.No, I do not PBEM

2.No, AI is important, I am solo play only.

3.Cumbersome. This means that turns would have a "lag" time of being sent, then checked, then sent back. This means that the between turn loading would probably be rather long, and thus not conducive to smooth solo play. Besides it also requires internet access while playing, not a problem for me, but a problem for many.

4.I have never played any iteration of EiA, so I am only interested in the Matrix version. Otherwise, I would wait until another Napoleonic game came out.

SoM

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 2

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 6:38:38 AM

timewalker03

Posts: 171
Joined: 6/9/2003
From: Omaha, NE
Status: offline

Nope. would not buy.I would rather have AI than PBEM feature in the game. Will not buy at all if there is no AI.

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 3

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 6:59:00 AM

oldtimer

Posts: 48
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2
QUESTION 1: That is... would you buy without AI, yes or no?

Answer 1: No I would not purchase without AI. I realize no AI is as good as another player and I am not asking for perfection from the AI, but the product needs to be playable solo.

quote:

QUESTION 2: And what if it cost half as much without AI? Would you buy in this case, and would this change your decision? Yes or no?

Answer 2: No I would not purchase as I can do PBEM without paying for it today.

quote:

QUESTION 3: Now, what if you had to email your turn to another location where the AI was processed and a file were returned to you? Thoughts?

Answer 3: I don't like it. Now my product is dependent on a third party for it to function. If that third party decides it is not profitable or goes out of business I now own a paperweight product. With that said if it is an alternative method, not necessary to play PBEM but has some benefit I can't foresee then yes it could be a good thing.

quote:

QUESTION 4: What if Matrix were the only game company allowed to make "Empires in Arms", and you knew you would never be able to play Empires in Arms in any other way than PBEM? Thoughts?

Answer 4: Matrix is providing a product that enhances the PBEM experience of EiA. They are also providing a product so a person can play solo EiA. It is the combination of those two factors that make this a viable product. This question has no relevancy. I can play EiA PBEM today without this product or if I can get 7 people together I can play it FtF. Matrix being the sole provider of a computerized version does not dictate whether or not I can play the game.

Besides while I ran a PBEM EiA game, with a website and all and did this for several years, for the past 10-15 years I have not played EiA (although I have looked at the game). My life will go on and I will be just as happy with my life tomorrow with or without this game. I will still be married and have my kids. This is just a means to play a game that I really enjoyed without spending as much time on it as I did when I played PBEM and hosted a couple of games. As I eluded to before I helped develop advance Naval and Land combat rules for EiA (they can still be found on the Internet). I used to host a FAQ on the Internet (this is gone now), I put together strategy tips, etc. I use to spend a lot of time on this. Now I am looking forward to a product that I can sit back and play at my leisure and maybe get some of that old feeling without having again to spend all the time.

Thus the name of "oldtimer"

Maybe better to say "Middle-age Timer" but that takes to long to type.

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 4

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 7:40:29 AM

MilRevKo

Posts: 293
Joined: 11/8/2006
From: Main Line, PA
Status: offline

Yes,

AI is really no more than a learning tool. It gets a tedious beatiing up a computer opponet.

Empire in Arms is one of the ultimate MULTIPLAYER games...

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 5

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 10:22:41 AM

Norden_slith

Posts: 166
Joined: 8/27/2003
From: expatriate german
Status: offline

1) I would, I've been playing via email for some time and know where to find the people.
AI would be missed for dropouts or similar situations.

2) That would be even better ofc.

3) No problem with that.

4) Well, I'll not let them steal my to copies! :-) No, seriously, I dont really get the
question, but reading the above, I guess I am not the kind of potential buyer your looking
for. As in, I would by it anyway.

_____________________________

Norden
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hexagonally challenged

(in reply to MilRevKo)

Post #: 6

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 1:56:01 PM

onkelh

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1: NO tbh it pisses me of that they change the game to accomidate PBEM, but thats matrix thing they do the same with WIF.

So in short a big fat NO :P

(in reply to Norden_slith)

Post #: 7

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 2:36:06 PM

Mardonius

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From: East Coast
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QUESTION 1: That is... would you buy without AI, yes or no?

Yes I would. I view the AI as a supplementary learning tool or something to control non-played major powers. In the old days of Avalon Hill's Empire's in Arms Board game, there were Uncontrolled Major Powers (UMPs) when you had less than 7 players. In a PBEM game -- which I hope to join in this new version of EiA -- geography would be of no concern and we could more readily find those elusive 7 players. Therefore, there is less of a need for AI.

QUESTION 2: And what if it cost half as much without AI? Would you buy in this case, and would this change your decision? Yes or no?

No change as I already intend to use this product as a PBEM game with AI mostly relevant to minor powers only.

QUESTION 3: Now, what if you had to email your turn to another location where the AI was processed and a file were returned to you? Thoughts?

I would do this but I am an older school former board gamer. I not sure if today's new gamers are so patient. Plus, it gives you time to execute those diplomatic correspondences so essential to the true spirit of the original game.

QUESTION 4: What if Matrix were the only game company allowed to make "Empires in Arms", and you knew you would never be able to play Empires in Arms in any other way than PBEM? Thoughts?

I intend to play primarily by PBEM anyway so I am not sure that I would be too put off. I love the human dynamic of diplomatic intrigue. From a business perspective, though, I think that may be a mistake as I the potential return from an AI player field is much larger. The trick is to balance this larger return with the larger investment and time span involved in a successful AI engine.

_____________________________

"Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant" -- James Madison
"Yes, you will win most battles, but if you loose to me you will loose oh so badly that it causes me pain (chortle) just to think of it" - P. Khan

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 8

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 4:07:17 PM

PunkReaper

Posts: 1085
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From: England
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I'm afraid its a big No No No for me, solo play only.

(in reply to Mardonius)

Post #: 9

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 5:02:17 PM

Oleg Mastruko

Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
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quote:

QUESTION 1: That is... would you buy without AI, yes or no?

Yes, generally speaking I would buy a game without AI. However EiA is special case, because this game has been screwed about for far too long so I would see removal of any feature this late into dev cycle as simply yet another red flag in the history of EiA red flags. EiA is also a special case because there IS a game without AI - ie. EiA board game.

quote:

QUESTION 2: And what if it cost half as much without AI? Would you buy in this case, and would this change your decision? Yes or no?

I would buy a PBEM-only game for a full price, generally speaking, so certainly I would do the same for half the price

quote:

QUESTION 3: Now, what if you had to email your turn to another location where the AI was processed and a file were returned to you? Thoughts?

Stupid. Very VERY stupid. I would either use a PBEM-only game, or the local AI game. A game with some remote, server based AI sounds just incredibly stupid.

quote:

QUESTION 4: What if Matrix were the only game company allowed to make "Empires in Arms", and you knew you would never be able to play Empires in Arms in any other way than PBEM? Thoughts?

As I already said, I have no problems with PBEM-only games

_____________________________

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Post #: 10

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 8:03:24 PM

napoleonbuff

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1) Yes, I am primarily interested in PBEM for this game. Not sure if I'll ever play solo, but the AI does give you options if you have less than the full seven players.

2) Yes.

3) Not so interested.

4) Yes.

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 11

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 8:11:29 PM

Adraeth

Posts: 400
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From: Italy - near Florence
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I like pbem, but with the proccesors we have now i assume that the AI MUST be a strong enemy because i play mostly against the AI!

(in reply to napoleonbuff)

Post #: 12

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 8:36:12 PM

hlj

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Joined: 3/19/2004
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1. No, without AI EIAnw is just a managing program for playing PBEM.
2. No, I mainly intend to use the game to play solo. And if the solo game grows on me, then perhaps I�ll try the PBEM feature.
3. It sounds clumsy. Why would you want to do that? If the game is a success then you would have tons of work for your central AI and it would create delays. If the game is a failure you are forced to host a server for the few people who bought the game or pay them their money back.
4. The question doesn�t make sense.
I can play EIA FTF or PBEM anytime I want and am able to find 6 other players.
Matrix Games have changed too much of EIA for me to EVER play it with other intelligent people as a PBEM game under the name of EIA. It might have elements of EIA but to call it EIA is a mockery. It is EIAnw with elements of EIA but it is closer to EIH than EIA for what I have read. EIH is in my opinion a set of rules best burned!
But to answer the question I think you wanted to ask: If you want me to buy a pure PBEM client you have to make sure it can be set up to mimic a game as I would have played it FTF (Exact rules, exact counters and exact board).

I am planning to buy this game mostly to support the initiative. But also for the opportunity to play EIAnw solo. Hopefully next time a great board game is made for computer the company who launches it will finish it a bit faster when they see that there are people willing to buy it.

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 13

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/8/2007 11:01:01 PM

Tanan Fujiwara

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I couldn't agree more with hlj!!!

1. No, if I finally do buy the game it would be for solo play only
2. No
3. Really clumsy
4. I can play EiA and actually do, either setting it up at home or PBEM through cyberboard so matrix won't stop me from doing it.

The main reason for my interest in this game was that I thought it would be a true version and not a mock version of the EiA boardgame (it's actually quite sad to see how a wonderfull game has been cut to shreds in the computer version with all the potential it had), I have even played EiH once (didn't like it too much), but matrix instead of getting one right, has made a bizarre mix of both.

Alas if I still buy it it will be to play it solo, since it would be of no use to play a serious pbem game with anyone.

One last thing do, if the computer version had been true to the game, I would have definetly bought it, even if it was ment for pbem only.

(in reply to hlj)

Post #: 14

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/10/2007 1:59:30 AM

yammahoper

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No, rendering all other questions moot for me.

yamma

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Post #: 15

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/10/2007 2:21:53 AM

Johnus

Posts: 615
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I play exclusively against AI. No AI, no purchase for me.

(in reply to yammahoper)

Post #: 16

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/10/2007 10:00:06 AM

New York Jets

Posts: 2087
Joined: 6/25/2001
From: St. Louis, MO but stuck in Bremerton,WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

Hey there. I am just wondering about how many people would play this Napoleonic game if it was ONLY play by email. That is, you could not play against the AI. Only against a player by email. I am just curious.

Please note... "Empires in Arms" is NOT only play by email. It does have everything. I am just wondering what if it were only play by email. How many would still have to have this? I am sure after the wait, we will all be rewarded with an excellent game system, including great AI.

However...

QUESTION 1: That is... would you buy a game like this (something you really wanted) without AI, yes or no?

QUESTION 2: And what if it cost half as much without AI? Would you buy in this case, and would this change your decision? Yes or no?

QUESTION 3: Now, what if you had to email your turn to another location where the AI was processed and a file were returned to you? Thoughts?

QUESTION 4: What if Matrix were the only game company allowed to make "Empires in Arms", and you knew you would never be able to play Empires in Arms in any other way than PBEM? Thoughts?

Yes. This is market research. But not by Matrix. And it has nothing to do with "Empires in Arms" or even Napoleonics.

I think this is a stupid post not worth answering.

_____________________________

"There comes a time in every man's life, and I've had plenty of 'em."

- Casey Stengel -

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 17

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/11/2007 12:09:10 AM

demonterico

Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline

I want it all!!!!

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The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 18

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/12/2007 1:28:14 AM

WJPalmer1

Posts: 81
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From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline

In light of where we are vis-a-vis the release and the practical reality that none of these items will be adjusted in the near future, I think this thread is mostly a waste of time.

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 19

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/12/2007 9:46:11 AM

Norden_slith

Posts: 166
Joined: 8/27/2003
From: expatriate german
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Wasting time is a time-honored tradition in the Empires in Arms section.

_____________________________

Norden
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hexagonally challenged

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Post #: 20

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/12/2007 7:53:27 PM

barbarossa2

Posts: 915
Joined: 1/17/2006
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Sorry if I wasted anyone's time. I am about to acquire the license to a major book. And these questions all were designed to tell me what people who feel strongly about a subject would think if certain things happen. I do know some of the questions, on their face, and not in this context, seem very odd. But your answers did help my team discuss the road ahead of us. So thanks!

And I will be buying Empires in Arms! Hope to play with some people in here some day!

_____________________________

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Post #: 21

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/12/2007 8:03:18 PM

Gil R.

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For your sake, I hope the book isn't James Frey's "A Million Little Pieces." Turns out that story was a hoax. If that's the book, this is what you get for not watching "Oprah."

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Michael Jordan plays ball. Charles Manson kills people. I torment eager potential customers by not sharing screenshots of "Brother Against Brother." Everyone has a talent.

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 22

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/16/2007 3:49:43 AM

YohanTM2

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline

I think you spank monkeys

[/quote]

I think this is a stupid post not worth answering.

Chris Trog

[/quote]

< Message edited by Yohan -- 11/16/2007 3:54:31 AM >

(in reply to New York Jets)

Post #: 23

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/16/2007 5:16:01 PM

freder

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Trog

quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

Hey there. I am just wondering about how many people would play this Napoleonic game if it was ONLY play by email. That is, you could not play against the AI. Only against a player by email. I am just curious.

Please note... "Empires in Arms" is NOT only play by email. It does have everything. I am just wondering what if it were only play by email. How many would still have to have this? I am sure after the wait, we will all be rewarded with an excellent game system, including great AI.

However...

QUESTION 1: That is... would you buy a game like this (something you really wanted) without AI, yes or no?

QUESTION 2: And what if it cost half as much without AI? Would you buy in this case, and would this change your decision? Yes or no?

QUESTION 3: Now, what if you had to email your turn to another location where the AI was processed and a file were returned to you? Thoughts?

QUESTION 4: What if Matrix were the only game company allowed to make "Empires in Arms", and you knew you would never be able to play Empires in Arms in any other way than PBEM? Thoughts?

Yes. This is market research. But not by Matrix. And it has nothing to do with "Empires in Arms" or even Napoleonics.

I think this is a stupid post not worth answering.

But you did

(in reply to New York Jets)

Post #: 24

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/17/2007 12:07:16 AM

YohanTM2

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline

LOL

(in reply to freder)

Post #: 25

RE: What if this were ONLY PBEM? - 11/21/2007 11:26:11 AM

jamo262

Posts: 82
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Perth Australia
Status: offline

owever...

QUESTION 1: YES

QUESTION 2: NO

QUESTION 3: EXcellent, reply by text message for out of turn descisions-committing guard, intercept, chit selection, withdraw, inside outside city etc.

QUESTION 4: Need good UMP rules

(in reply to barbarossa2)

Post #: 26