ny59giants
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Joined: 1/10/2005
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I agree with other posters about using your non-S boats (American) for evac. Below is what I copied off a post by Feinder about the subject. it has worked well for me (late 7/42 in one PBEM).
quote:
Sub Evacs
Aviation Support has a load cost of 20. (Regular) Support has a load cost of 20.
Infantry has a load cost of 10. Most MGs have a load cost of 5 – 10.
All of the RN subs, and the RDN subs have a load capacity of 18 or less. You can see the cargo capacity of a sub by pulling up the ship’s detail screen.
Of he US subs, there is some variety…
Barracuda class (CHS) = 18 capacity Dolphin class = 18 capacity
Old S-class = 22(?) capacity Salmon class = 42 capacity
Tambor class = 22(?) capacity Gato class = 40ish capacity
So the RN and RDN subs cannot load support or av-support squads. If you unit is only comprised of support (which is all that remains at the very end), they will not load anything. The RN/RDN subs –can- load squads. So if your base force or isolated Btn has infantry squads in it, they –will- load those. The Barracudas are also low in capacity. The Salmon class are good early war for transports, as they can load 2 support per sub.
I put a LOT of effort in sub-evacs. (small essay to follow)…
Most of the time when you unit initially retreats, it’s NOT in that bad a shape over-all. Maybe you have a 150 squads/support to start. After losing the battle and retreating, you probably will have around 80 elements disabled, 50 still active, and 20 destroyed. You still have 130/150 elements, but if you don’t get them out, they’ll likely all die because your probably retreated into the middle of nowhere with no supplies.
Chances are, Japan will –not- have pursued you. Your retreated unit likely in the middle of nowhere, and Japan is probably not sitting on you. But your guy is out of supplies and –will- die unless you march them somewhere that is in supply (or evac them). Your formation is still at about 85% strength, -if- you can get him out. So spend the effort to save him. It takes a while to evac a whole unit, you’re not going to save everybody as they will be slowing dying off as you evac them. But even if you can salvage 50% of the unit, that’s still “significant”. Note that I am, and am –not- talking about evac-ing cadres here. I am talking about pulling guys off the beach with subs (evac-ing cadres). But I’m –not- talking about just pulling just 2 or 3 guys off the beach. I’m talking about producing maximum effort to save 100 squads. It –can- be done. And when it’s all said and done, I won’t have a handful of Dutch cadres with 2 squads. In another PBEM game (08-42), the 1st and 2nd Provisional Dutch Divisions (about 2 Rgts + 3 Btns at full strength - each) recaptured Port Moresby. If you only pull out 2 squads, it doesn’t amount to crap. If that all you –can- pull out, sure. But if over the course of a month you can save 50% of the unit, then by all means, do so. You can never have enough troops!
I realize there’s a lot of ballyhoo about points (to play or not to play, for them). But whether you’re in for points or not, everybody –does- keep an eye on them. Troop losses are the single greatest liability to the Allied player. Every 6 squads you save, saves you a point. Every 48 you save, is the same vp cost as a destroyer. If you save 48 squads (8 points), you’ve just –raised- the Japanese requirement for auto-victory by 32 points (now Japan has to sink an extra CL because you were diligent in rescuing your fragments).
My subs are my work-horses for the first six months. I use the RN/RDN subs, and the old S-class on patrols to start. Their’s are the only ones with good torpedoes, so I try to get my mileage out of them. For the other USN subs (crappy torps), I load up with some mines if they can, drop the mines off somewhere, then “patrol” at full speed to a pick-up point, and switch to “transport”. They pick up survivors, full speed back to drop them off at an appropriate recoup location. Then full-speed “patrol” back to their next pick-up site. The RN/RDN/S-class subs patrol until they run up about 15 sys dmg. After 15 sys dmg, subs have a hard time getting into position to take a shot before they get hit by ASW. So after the RN/RDN/S-class top 15 sys, I revert them rescue duty. While strictly not as useful as the USN fleet boats (smaller capacity), there are still plenty of Infantry squads (load =10) to be picked up.
You can have a sub with 40 sys dmg out picking up guys, it doesn’t reduce their capacity. Higher sys –does- make your sub easier to spot, esp by LBA. Your subs –will- get plinked as they go about picking up survivors. After a sub has 50ish sys dmg, I –believe- it’s very detrimental. Just as a CV with 50+ dmg cannot conduct flight ops, I believe I read somewhere that subs with 50+ sys cannot submerge. Over 50 sys, your subs will get plinked a lot by enemy LBA, which seems to bear out the “cannot submerge” hypothesis.
Bilbow’s attack on Manila (sinking about 20 subs), was –very- annoying. I obviously have big plans for my subs, but I’ve had to make due with less. Just zooming around at full-speed, and an occasional plink by LBA (which really hurts by the way, but is usually not fatal), puts most of subs with sys dmg in the 30s. Many of them have never even been attacked by DCs. The evac efforts will (likely) continue thru about June (that’s about how long it takes to “clean up” all the fragments from SRA). Subs with <15 sys (and working torps) go on patrol. Subs with 15 – 49 sys run evacs. Subs with 50+ sys get rotated back to port. Newly arriving subs plug the gaps. By July, my subs will be in sorry shape (although normally few are actually SUNK during the patrol-evac cycle). They’ll end up having to port for about 4 months, which handily coincides with the radar upgrade, and eventually working torpedoes.
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