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ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/16/2007 2:49:24 AM   
Major Victory

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 9/23/2004
Status: offline 		Is this intentional, I currently have 8 UK corps an a Amercian air unit operating in Russia.

Background, I positioned this force in Persia to counter a Axis push in the Caucasus, when I repelled that with the Soviets, I tried to see if I could move these units in Russia instead of taking a year to move back to the Med, and lo and behold, I'm railing units to Kursk and suplimenting my Soviets forces with teched up UK infantry!

What next, can I have Soviet units garrisoning London & New York!!

I think a future patch needs to address this issue, theres no way in hell there is a any historical justifacation for this.

In fact I get to use the Allied rail limit to move them (ie. I get to use 4 rail in Russia, combined with Russian rail moves)

I did not indend this to be a gamey move, but if allowed, I assume the playtesters ok'd it, (note to playtesters, read up on politics and allied cooperation during WW2!!)

Post #: 1
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/16/2007 3:04:09 AM   
Irish Guards


Posts: 143
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Yep .. I actually figure since there is no political in this game that Uk can attack Iran with those 2 shiny corps they added in Iraq .. w an air or 2 and bye bye Iran ...
Solve a few world issues right there eh ...

I also knew this was possible since when a German player I was playing attacked Turkey ..
I was moving and then railing Turks around in Russia ... What a riot ..
IDG

(in reply to Major Victory)
Post #: 2
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/16/2007 3:16:13 AM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Good grief, what else can these guys miss




quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Victory

Is this intentional, I currently have 8 UK corps an a Amercian air unit operating in Russia.

Background, I positioned this force in Persia to counter a Axis push in the Caucasus, when I repelled that with the Soviets, I tried to see if I could move these units in Russia instead of taking a year to move back to the Med, and lo and behold, I'm railing units to Kursk and suplimenting my Soviets forces with teched up UK infantry!

What next, can I have Soviet units garrisoning London & New York!!

I think a future patch needs to address this issue, theres no way in hell there is a any historical justifacation for this.

In fact I get to use the Allied rail limit to move them (ie. I get to use 4 rail in Russia, combined with Russian rail moves)

I did not indend this to be a gamey move, but if allowed, I assume the playtesters ok'd it, (note to playtesters, read up on politics and allied cooperation during WW2!!)




(in reply to Major Victory)
Post #: 3
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/16/2007 4:04:27 AM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		Persia can get re-set to pro-allied easily enough.  I was under the impression you could not rail because your units were not in full supply - I know they have a ways to go before they can get into Russia in any case.  I don't think it makes a big difference - I remember getting a few corps of UK units into Russia and they could not rail until they were deep into Russia, and got slaughtered anyway.

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 4
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/16/2007 4:16:05 AM   
Major Victory

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 9/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vypuero

Persia can get re-set to pro-allied easily enough.  I was under the impression you could not rail because your units were not in full supply - I know they have a ways to go before they can get into Russia in any case.  I don't think it makes a big difference - I remember getting a few corps of UK units into Russia and they could not rail until they were deep into Russia, and got slaughtered anyway.


All I had to do was move to the hex adjacent to Baku, I turns move from Persia.

I could also naval transport in the Caspian from the port!



(in reply to Vypuero)
Post #: 5
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/16/2007 11:50:39 AM   
firepowerjohan


Posts: 378
Joined: 4/7/2007
Status: offline 		This is only possible since last patch and because Persia is now neutral so can be invaded by both axis and allies (used to be pro-allies). I agree and think that in order to prevent this, we need to make Persia pro-allied again in next patch.

I think you should give Vypuero a break, he has made all scenarios and most things he has been doing from the first patch and onwards have significantly improved the realism and gameplay. He is doing a fantastic work to say the leist.

< Message edited by firepowerjohan -- 11/16/2007 2:41:19 PM >

_____________________________

Johan Persson - Firepower Entertainment
Lead developer of:
World Empires Live http://www.worldempireslive.com/
CEAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
CNAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=52



(in reply to Major Victory)
Post #: 6
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/16/2007 10:57:48 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		In Rise and Decline of the Third Reich, in the 1939 scenario, the allies get 2 turns in a row over the 1941 - 1942 year start sequence. I have moved UK forces into Russia so save that last VL from falling into German hands!

It was a great victory and my opponent was impressed with the idea!





_____________________________


(in reply to firepowerjohan)
Post #: 7
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/17/2007 4:02:28 AM   
Irish Guards


Posts: 143
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

This is only possible since last patch and because Persia is now neutral so can be invaded by both axis and allies (used to be pro-allies). I agree and think that in order to prevent this, we need to make Persia pro-allied again in next patch.

I think you should give Vypuero a break, he has made all scenarios and most things he has been doing from the first patch and onwards have significantly improved the realism and gameplay. He is doing a fantastic work to say the least.

... Besides the obvious .. What exactly does ...

pro-allies ... actually mean in this game ...
specifically ..
The fact that 2 UK corps are now in Iraq .. Does this mean Iran is UK troops also ..
IDG

(in reply to firepowerjohan)
Post #: 8
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/17/2007 3:10:42 PM   
Major Victory

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 9/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

This is only possible since last patch and because Persia is now neutral so can be invaded by both axis and allies (used to be pro-allies). I agree and think that in order to prevent this, we need to make Persia pro-allied again in next patch.

I think you should give Vypuero a break, he has made all scenarios and most things he has been doing from the first patch and onwards have significantly improved the realism and gameplay. He is doing a fantastic work to say the leist.


My point is not weither Persia should be pro-allied or not, its that Allied troops should not be allowed in the Soviet Union!
I am not directing my criticism at anyone in particular, just bringing to light a completly non-historical possibility, its the fact that Vypuero does'nt seem to thinks its a big deal that has me concerned.

Update, The British 8th army continues to spearhead the Russian conteroffensive in central Russia! (me and my opponent just chuckle and shake our heads at this)

(in reply to firepowerjohan)
Post #: 9
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/17/2007 4:29:54 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		Major - I would prefer that it not be the case, but I am working within the parameters of the game engine.  I have no control over the fact that there is no specific Russian-Allied non-cooperation game mechanic in the game.  If it concerns you that much, there is nothing stopping you from simply declaring it illegal in your own games and simply not doing it.

(in reply to Major Victory)
Post #: 10
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/17/2007 5:19:21 PM   
Irish Guards


Posts: 143
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Major - I would prefer that it not be the case, but I am working within the parameters of the game engine.

Fine .... What exactly are the parameters of the game ...

I also have a few questions about ...

Air basing in mountains ..???
Armor moving and attacking into mountains ..??
Invasions into mountains ..??

I think MV is also right with mnay of his posts .. What ever happened to Colonel Mud in Russia ...

If the gamers have a better understanding of what is and is not possible then ...

Maybe there will be a better understanding of where this game is able to develop and adapt .. If at all possible or is this it ... !!!!

House rules will never work .. especially if you are ever hoping to have any kind of standard game .. !!

IDG

(in reply to Vypuero)
Post #: 11
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/17/2007 7:22:00 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		I believe that allies can simply cooperate on each other's territory.  I played a couple games where we got to the end and we were both closing in on Berlin from both sides.  You can use each other's territory.  There could be a lot of problems to set it up with the rules otherwise - there always end up unintended consequences.  I mean, there were lots of lend-lease through Persia, and there is not much you can send there - I just don't see it as a game breaker. 

However, by making Persia pro-allied, it has to be the axis that attack it.  The reason for Iraq is that this is when Iraq revolted and then was occupied by the Allies.  Granted Persia was too, but then we have this coop issue crop up.

Well at this scale - the mountain terrain is unlikely to be 100% mountains - It has severe penalties for armor, so I don't see it as an issue to allow armor and air in mountain terrain.

The mud/winter effect is combined that is why movement gets restricted.  It is not as good as having a more detailed system, but it accomplishes the same strategic effect of giving the pause to combat on the eastern front.

(in reply to Irish Guards)
Post #: 12
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/17/2007 8:21:48 PM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Check this out...note the Air backing the Russian advance, and all supporting Brits






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Yohan -- 11/17/2007 8:22:12 PM >

(in reply to Vypuero)
Post #: 13
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/17/2007 8:36:55 PM   
Irish Guards


Posts: 143
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Without being able to see all the upgrades and such ....
The IDG has only this to say ...
Good game Johnny .. U Allies are gonna slaughter Germany ..
Brethren .. It nay looks good here ... lmao ...

You guys seem to have the grasp of the game now ... lol
How about a wee PBEM game w the Ire ..

Or else maybe I nay play 7 Ages next sunday .... Oh dear ..
IDG

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 14
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/17/2007 9:01:06 PM   
Irish Guards


Posts: 143
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		How about a short summary about what happened in this game ... From both of you ..
I am guessing there was nay N Afr campaign ...
How about more screenies and upgrades included ....

Strategies ... Buillds .. Naval War
IDG

(in reply to Irish Guards)
Post #: 15
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/18/2007 5:00:43 AM   
Major Victory

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 9/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irish Guards

How about a short summary about what happened in this game ... From both of you ..
I am guessing there was nay N Afr campaign ...
How about more screenies and upgrades included ....

Strategies ... Buillds .. Naval War
IDG


Short Summary (Bacardi on the rocks)

Med, forget about it, no need, Air Britanicca, Lauftwafta Kaput!

Montgomery & Zukov become best of friends (Stalin welcomes imperialiasm)

CW builds air, Soviets build ground, no subs to be found!

In all serious, Germans came very close to capturing Southern Russia, but when they were stopped, I was I Poland by summer 1943 (there seems to be no mid game back and forth, either Axis win by late 42, or they collaspe big time!)

nuf said, need refill!!


(in reply to Irish Guards)
Post #: 16
RE: ALLIES IN RUSSIA! - 11/18/2007 6:16:16 PM   
Irish Guards


Posts: 143
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Ahhh ... The Ire sees whats up now ...
So I send you and Rob same game .. wee play and see who do better ..
Ohh .. ya might wanna send the wee ones to the LCBO .. ya gonna need it ...
IDG

(in reply to Major Victory)
Post #: 17
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