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RE: Do you play against the AI?

 
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[Poll]

Do you play against the AI?


I play only against the AI
  44% (135)
I play primarily against the AI
  15% (46)
I play occasionally against the AI
  14% (45)
I only played the AI when learning, wouldn't touch it now
  23% (73)
Never played the AI
  2% (7)


Total Votes : 306
(last vote on : 3/24/2008 2:19:07 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/6/2007 6:12:41 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Which begs the question: can you be considered to have died if you never lived in the first place?


Isn't that basically what Julius Caesar replied to a soldier under his command who asked his commander's permission to commit suicide?


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Post #: 151
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 10:44:26 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		Most of my game time is against the AI, but I prefer pbem.  Problem is of course time.  If I had more time, I'd be a mostly pbem player like when the game first game out.

But with a change in life's circumstances came a change in the amount of time I had to play in a dedicated manner.  PBEM is without any doubt the best way to play the game, but it isn't always a viable option for everyone.  I'd guess most people play the AI as opposed to pbem due to time constraints of one form or another.


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Post #: 152
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 12:42:24 PM   
histgamer

 

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		bout 50 50 now, got one PBEM going might start another and roughly same time pace for my AI game... Well today i had 5 turns done in my PBEM so PBEM was a bit faster. Dang that was a good PBEM day nearly got a week done.

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Post #: 153
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 2:43:08 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Most of my game time is against the AI, but I prefer pbem.  Problem is of course time.  If I had more time, I'd be a mostly pbem player ...


I know the poll was simply "do you play against the AI?"; but what does it say about the game's AI when most veteran players would prefer PBEM.

OK, it's not a perfect world, so players have to make compromises; perhaps the next poll should be, under ideal circumstances -- i.e., no time constraints, etc. -- what do you prefer to play against: people or the machine?


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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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Post #: 154
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 2:46:11 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Most of my game time is against the AI, but I prefer pbem.  Problem is of course time.  If I had more time, I'd be a mostly pbem player ...


I know the poll was simply "do you play against the AI?"; but what does it say about the game's AI when most veteran players would prefer PBEM.

OK, it's not a perfect world, so players have to make compromises; perhaps the next poll should be, under ideal circumstances -- i.e., no time constraints, etc. -- what do you prefer to play against: people or the machine?



i don't think that is the purpose of this poll... Matrix wants to find out (i think) how much effort to devote to the AI in this game. Obviously, if no one is playing AI, then they can drop the AI and no one would be unhappy.

However, if lots of folks ARE playing the AI - not as many people are going to buy WITP without an AI.

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 155
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 2:50:33 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Most of my game time is against the AI, but I prefer pbem.  Problem is of course time.  If I had more time, I'd be a mostly pbem player ...


I know the poll was simply "do you play against the AI?"; but what does it say about the game's AI when most veteran players would prefer PBEM.

OK, it's not a perfect world, so players have to make compromises; perhaps the next poll should be, under ideal circumstances -- i.e., no time constraints, etc. -- what do you prefer to play against: people or the machine?



i don't think that is the purpose of this poll... Matrix wants to find out (i think) how much effort to devote to the AI in this game. Obviously, if no one is playing AI, then they can drop the AI and no one would be unhappy.

However, if lots of folks ARE playing the AI - not as many people are going to buy WITP without an AI.

I could not agree more. I certainly would not have bought it.

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Post #: 156
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 3:04:54 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
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From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
i don't think that is the purpose of this poll... Matrix wants to find out (i think) how much effort to devote to the AI in this game. Obviously, if no one is playing AI, then they can drop the AI and no one would be unhappy.

However, if lots of folks ARE playing the AI - not as many people are going to buy WITP without an AI.



Does this game even have an "AI"? It plays more like a period of "scripted endevours" followed by "aimless wandering". It may be "automated" wandering..., but there certainly isn't much "intellegence" in evidence after the opening Japanese "push".

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 157
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 3:11:23 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
i don't think that is the purpose of this poll... Matrix wants to find out (i think) how much effort to devote to the AI in this game. Obviously, if no one is playing AI, then they can drop the AI and no one would be unhappy.

However, if lots of folks ARE playing the AI - not as many people are going to buy WITP without an AI.



Does this game even have an "AI"? It plays more like a period of "scripted endevours" followed by "aimless wandering". It may be "automated" wandering..., but there certainly isn't much "intellegence" in evidence after the opening Japanese "push".


While it's far from perfect , and not all we'd like it to be (or hope the new version will be) , it is better than nothing , and a fair "training aid" .

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Post #: 158
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 6:53:24 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Personally I think that this thread has a lot to do with the Admiral's Edition announcement. I'll bet Matrix thought that they were going to be able to release the AE this Christmas, but found the AI to be problematic and so thought to check to see how viable a release would be with a nearly non-existent AI. My guess is, based on this poll, they're spending a lot more time on developing the AI.

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 159
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 7:04:19 PM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		AI as Japan

The AI does a good job for the inital invasions, but after the first 4 or 5 months is just goes dumb!
- Sends supplies to useless places.
- Too scripted, always invades the same places at the same time (some varable would be nice).
- Doesn't use minelaying beyond the initial invasion, it should mine forward bases for defense
- Keeps it's subs in the same place each in every game.
- Doesn't escort troops or supply shipments to forward bases under enemy air control.


AI as Allied

- It throws away it's forces peice meal
- Keeps sending tankers to useless forward bases.
- Sends TF's right base Japanese airbases only to get sunk.
- Never tries to retake wake, midway
- Keeps all of it's subs in the same places
- Doesn't mine enemy ports
- Dosen't use mines to protect forward bases
- Dosen't use PT boats for forward base defense
- Way to easy to cut off land units, like (Rangkoon, one enemy unit north will do it)








(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 160
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 7:38:54 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

... perhaps the next poll should be, under ideal circumstances -- i.e., no time constraints, etc. -- what do you prefer to play against: people or the machine?


i don't think that is the purpose of this poll...


That's why I said, perhaps the next poll ...

Other on-line games have dropped the AI entirely; this usually applies to massive, multi-player genres.

I missed the Admiral Edition annoucement; guess I'll go look at the Matrix home page.

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Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 161
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 7:57:48 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline 		Grumpy PBEM players just hate it when they find out that they just a small minority.

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Post #: 162
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 8:27:47 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		FYI, the poll and the Admiral's Edition release plan are not related. With that said, it's always good to know how many people enjoy each play mode.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 12/7/2007 8:28:00 PM >

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Post #: 163
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 8:53:00 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline 		So, despite the new Ad Ed add-on, will the WitP AI basically remain unchanged?

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Post #: 164
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 9:03:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
So, despite the new Ad Ed add-on, will the WitP AI basically remain unchanged?


We can't comment on that yet, there's too much AI work still to be done.

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Post #: 165
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 9:07:21 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
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From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
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quote:

there's too much AI work still to be done


That's enough comment for me

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Post #: 166
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 10:08:33 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		As someone who, at this time, only plays PBEM, I would like to play a reasonable game or two against the AI. If they are able to get it close to competant - mostly not do dumb or stupid things, I would gladly play against it. My preference right now, is to play PBEM and if I don't have turns, I crank up Oblivion and wander about some.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 12/7/2007 10:22:23 PM >

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Post #: 167
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/7/2007 11:57:15 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
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From: Stratford, Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
So, despite the new Ad Ed add-on, will the WitP AI basically remain unchanged?


We can't comment on that yet, there's too much AI work still to be done.


"AI work still to be done"; that actually sounds promising.


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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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Post #: 168
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/8/2007 12:18:00 AM   
Rexor

 

Posts: 295
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: The Oort Cloud
Status: offline 		I'm one those players who only plays against the AI, as my time constraints and bizarre schedule simply don't accommodate PBEM (my opponents would eventually give up on me). I also enjoy playing for eight or ten hours straight--it's one of the reasons I bought a computer in the first place. Obviously, I dropped this game entirely after firing it up and realizing that the AI was brain-dead. I'd love a competent AI for WitP, as it is my dream war game. One of the reasons I like FoF, for instance, is because its AI isn't half bad at all. (I know it's a much simpler engine than WitP, of course, but I'm just bringing up an example.)

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 169
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/8/2007 10:12:27 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
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Status: offline 		You simply couldn't leave the AI untouched and sell the product. The adjustment needed just to attempt to use the mid-sea intercepting justifies AI modification alone. And that's only the beginning. How about those planes using altitude for CAP and so on? What kind of reaction would you get from customers if the raids were flying the exact same way as before (if that's even possible)? Also the fact that the small ports and airfields (I think I read airfields) won't be overjam city anymore justifies adjustment. And what about the damage systems beign different? You would think that if the player would need to make decisions on how the ships are being repaired, then an AI not used for that purpose previously would indeed need adjustment for that. And how does the old AI use those 500 plane types?

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Post #: 170
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/8/2007 12:01:19 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

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From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rexor

I'm one those players who only plays against the AI, as my time constraints and bizarre schedule simply don't accommodate PBEM (my opponents would eventually give up on me). I also enjoy playing for eight or ten hours straight--it's one of the reasons I bought a computer in the first place. Obviously, I dropped this game entirely after firing it up and realizing that the AI was brain-dead. I'd love a competent AI for WitP, as it is my dream war game. One of the reasons I like FoF, for instance, is because its AI isn't half bad at all. (I know it's a much simpler engine than WitP, of course, but I'm just bringing up an example.)



Given that the Admiral's Edition is still written over the basic code of WITP, I would doubt that the new team is going to be able to make the AI function any better in a long time frame....., that's not going to be possible until WITP II and code written decently from the ground up. What they might be able to do is get it to play a short scenario more competantly. At least that's the way I see it after reading 4 years of "excuses" and "limitations" and "it's hard-coded's" from folks dealing with it.

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Post #: 171
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/8/2007 3:56:44 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

You simply couldn't leave the AI untouched and sell the product. The adjustment needed just to attempt to use the mid-sea intercepting justifies AI modification alone. And that's only the beginning ...


If I understand you, the AI adjustment is more of an accomodation to the new algorithms, and not necessarilly any real improvement in the AI itself.


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Post #: 172
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/8/2007 4:49:05 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Well, the team has said repeatedly they are trying to do both -- to accommodate the new features *and* to improve the AI. We can't expect Deep Blue, but we can hope for some improvement.

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Post #: 173
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/8/2007 5:20:22 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		270 responses to the poll (me included). That's pretty good

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Post #: 174
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/8/2007 5:26:46 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

270 responses to the poll (me included). That's pretty good


I think that there is at least 1:20 difference between players who post on forums and all players - thus around 6000+ owners are quite possible (and I guestimate that as much as 7000-10000 WitP packages have been sold)...


Leo "Apollo11"


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Post #: 175
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/9/2007 4:37:49 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		I have always played against the AI, as a WWII buff, especially the pacific theater, I just enjoy playing at my own leisure.
Someday I may play a pbem but I don't know, I just love the "feel" of the game. Putting on my smoking jacket and enjoying one of the best games ever developed.
Thanks again to all of those involved in making this game what is is and to the community for the many many many years of enjoyment.

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Post #: 176
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/9/2007 6:37:39 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline 		Wow! Looking at the poll totals at this point - I never realized that over 50% of the community mostly plays against the AI. I thought I was one of the few!

TOMLABEL

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Post #: 177
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/9/2007 6:49:43 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Actually TOMLABEL, I would expect that about 10% play PBEM and the other 90% play against to AI. This poll is biased because most PBEM players are also active forum users.

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Post #: 178
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/9/2007 6:58:48 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline 		Interesting.. That makes sense to me, though.

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WITP Admiral's Edition: Ship & Sub Art/Base Unit Art/Map Icon Art

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Post #: 179
RE: Do you play against the AI? - 12/9/2007 9:36:35 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline
The comments are enlightening as well.

It's not a case that a lot of the players prefer the challenge of the AI, it just that they are not in a position to make the commitment of PBEM and the AI just gives them the opportunity to play anyway.

< Message edited by Reg -- 12/9/2007 9:39:19 AM >

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Post #: 180
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